Feminism is important

[Al Muslim]

Partially raised in the UAE and went to a British private school. So my Arabic isn't great.

I thought as much, also you said the UAE is good place for women so I can tell you don't know what you're talking about, the UAE is easily the most degenerate country in the gulf with many foreigners who have no respect for Islamic values. Even zionists have gone there to engage in prostitution.

Israeli men going in droves to UAE to "sleep with prostitutes"

Prostitution in Dubai has allowed Israeli men to come to town with thousands of dollars in their pockets just to fulfill their sexual desire * New development comes a month after UAE opened its airspace to Israel

www.brecorder.com

 

[Angelina]

I thought as much, also you said the UAE is good place for women so I can tell you don't know what you're talking about, the UAE is easily the most degenerate country in the gulf with many foreigners who have no respect for Islamic values. Even zionists have gone there to engage in prostitution.

Israeli men going in droves to UAE to "sleep with prostitutes"

Prostitution in Dubai has allowed Israeli men to come to town with thousands of dollars in their pockets just to fulfill their sexual desire * New development comes a month after UAE opened its airspace to Israel

www.brecorder.com

I've never felt unsafe walking around as a woman. That is the point of the discussion.
Hardly any catcalling and when I had to leave my house after 8pm to do quick errands i never felt unsafe. Obviously, safety is in the hands of Allah and may Allah keep us all safe. But the UAE is definitely one of the most safest countries.

Stick to the discussion. If you go night clubs and those types of places, then yes you will see all sorts. But most decent Muslims in the UAE do not see that side as they do not go out of their way to go to those places.

Again, stick to the discussion. It seems you like to argue for the sake of arguing. I don't know why that article has any relevance. I'm a normal woman, not a man that goes to prostitutes wtf.

 

[Al Muslim]

I've never felt unsafe walking around as a woman. That is the point of the discussion.
Hardly any catcalling and when I had to leave my house after 8pm to do quick errands i never felt unsafe. Obviously, safety is in the hands of Allah and may Allah keep us all safe. But the UAE is definitely one of the most safest countries.

Stick to the discussion. If you go night clubs and those types of places, then yes you will see all sorts. But most Muslims in the UAE do not see that side as they do not go out of their way to go to those places.

Again, stick to the discussion. It seems you like to argue for the sake of arguing.

So if this is about anecdotes, tell me have you been to Saudi Arabia? No, well then you can't start spouting out opinion and framing it as fact. I guarantee you Saudi Arabia is much better than the UAE.

 

[Angelina]

So if this is about anecdotes, tell me have you been to Saudi Arabia? No, well then you can't start spouting out opinion and framing it as fact. I guarantee you Saudi Arabia is much better than the UAE.

Do you actually speak to women? Or do you just talk over them? I know plenty of women who've worked there and didn't feel safe as the men at times act like they haven't seen women before. I've been there to visit, but not to live. Also, different parts of Saudi, people will have diff experience. Jeddah vs Riyadh for instance.

At the end of the day, your anecdotes are useless because you are not a woman, and to be frank its obvious from the way you talk you don't give a shit about women or what they go through.

Personally, I don't think Saudi is that bad. Its pretty modern and has a similar feel to other gulf countries. But it isn't a country in which women can go out and about on their own. Even though, women driving is finally legal, i wouldn't advice a woman to bother driving there.

In case you're wondering, no I don't have the Western view people have of Saudi. I would 100% feel safer in Saudi than in Morocco, Egypt, Pakistan, Bangladesh ect.

 

[Amirah]

Same. I used to be for capital punishment but when some Somali guy in my area was wrongly jailed for 2 years for raping a fat white woman and then later released, I changed my mind.

The number of men accused of rape wrongfully and jailed is far lower than the number that do commit and walk free. There’s thousands of cases of serial rapist or pedophiles that are locked just for few years and released only to continue then escalate to murder. Trust me your friend was jailed only because he’s black and the woman white. Idk about the UK but where I am the police straight up tells women reporting rape to just “drop it”. Some crazy high percentage like 90% or something of rape aren’t even reported at all.

I know a white girl where her ex broke into her apartment, beat and raped her. They tied the case up in court for 2 yrs where she was forced to testify again and again. When she couldn’t anymore the case was dropped. Another girl, Habesha was kidnapped from the street, taken to a house and raped. The rapist then started calling his friends to come over. She took the opportunity to jump outta window. The police found the house inside was her purse and but her clothes were gone. The rapist himself walked into a police station to drop off her clothes later and was not arrested lol. They asked her to testify 3 times before they dropped the case because she couldn’t anymore due to trauma.

No other criminal case requires the victim to testify/give statements over and over like rape cases; they’ll prosecute any other crime quickly and with longer sentencing but rape cases never take off from the start because the police/ detectives are men who automatically treat it like the women is lying despite all evidence and as soon as the woman stops following up on her case they take the first opportunity to drop it.

 

[Revolutionary]

Feminism is not needed in a society which has Islamic values.

This needs to be shouted off rooftops, a society in which true islamic values are imposed do not need feminism, the ideology of feminism was created for women in the west who previously had little to no rights in their society, anything similar in muslim majority nations are simply not following

In Islamic societies the rate is far lower and the punishment is much more severe, don't make such blatantly false claims.

This is also spot on, here is a crime comparison between Saudi Arabia and the US

mind you, this is nation that doesnt have perfect sharia, imagine how much better the statistics would be

 

[Amirah]

In Islamic societies the rate is far lower and the punishment is much more severe, don't make such blatantly false claims.

Lol so Somalia isn’t Islamic then? How many women are daily raped there and how often do the women reporting the rape stoned to death and the rapist free to walk??

This needs to be shouted off rooftops, a society in which true islamic values are imposed do not need feminism, the ideology of feminism was created for women in the west who previously had little to no rights in their society, anything similar in muslim majority nations are simply not following

This is also spot on, here is a crime comparison between Saudi Arabia and the US
View attachment 174542

mind you, this is nation that doesnt have perfect sharia, imagine how much better the statistics would be

What does a chart comparing murder rates between US and Saudi have to do with the discussion of feminism, rape and pedophilia?

 

[Revolutionary]

Lol so Somalia isn’t Islamic then? How many times were the women reporting rape stoned to death there?



What does a chart comparing murder rates between US and Saudi have to do with the discussion of feminism, rape and pedophilia?

You sound like an idiot

he said in islamic societies the punishments are much more severe and the rates are lower, so i brought an example showing that crime rates are much lower with the punishments being severe, its the same for rape as well, you can check out the statistics for that if you like

As for feminism, I've made my point in the exact same message you're quoting where you've chosen to ignore

 

[Amirah]

You sound like an idiot

he said in islamic societies the punishments are much more severe and the rates are lower, so i brought an example showing that crime rates are much lower with the punishments being severe, its the same for rape as well, you can check out the statistics for that if you like

As for feminism, I've made my point in the exact same message you're quoting where you've chosen to ignore

Don’t compare apples and oranges is my point! Posting a chart that shows Saudi has less murder rate than America’s says nothing about rape. And it also says not much about Saudi either as US has one of the highest murder rates among all developed countries. Anyhow, a country can have few murder cases but still have high number of rape... that’s reported or unreported. Don’t correlate 2 things that are not related is my point.

 

[libaac]

Lol so Somalia isn’t Islamic then? How many women are daily raped there and how many times did the women reporting the rape stoned to death and the rapist free to walk??



What does a chart comparing murder rates between US and Saudi have to do with the discussion of feminism, rape and pedophilia?

Somalia isn’t a society that follows Islam. Praying salah and reading Quran doesn’t change that. The chart shows a country where there are more Islamic values and principles compared to a nation where ther isn’t. The evidence clearly shows that in a society where there is sharia to some degree and the punishment is more severe the crime happens less. The world isn’t perfect and there have always been and will always be men who commit such crimes. It’s the sad truth that this will never stop laakin you can’t deny that implementing harsher laws will greatly reduce it. The problem with feminism is that it isn’t realistic. Women need to take precautions since they never know what is gonna happen. It’s the sad reality but it’s the truth. Walking out at night without a mahram is putting yourself in danger.

 

[Revolutionary]

Don’t compare apples and oranges is my point! Posting a chart that shows Saudi has less murder rate than America’s says nothing about rape. And it also says nothing much about Saudi either as US has one of the highest murder rate among all developed countries. Anyhow, a country can have low murder rate but still have high number of rape... that’s reported or unreported. Don’t correlate 2 things that are not related is my point.

Read what i said again

its the same for rape as well, you can check out the statistics for that if you like

I encourage you to

The point of the chart was to validate what another poster was saying in terms of crime being much lower in islamic societies that practice some sharia, rape cases are lower as well as

 

[Angelina]

Read what i said again

I encourage you to

The point of the chart was to validate what another poster was saying in terms of crime being much lower in islamic societies that practice some sharia, rape cases are lower as well as

I definitely do feel safer in Muslim Gulf societies. However, you're forgetting the major taboo surrounding reporting rape. So you can't make that claim exactly with regards to rape.

Also, most women are raped by men they know, which makes the crime even more difficult to report.

 

[Revolutionary]

I definitely do feel safer in Muslim Gulf societies. However, you're forgetting the major taboo surrounding reporting rape. So you can't make that claim exactly with regards to rape.

Also, most women are raped by men they know, which makes the crime even more difficult to report.

Rape in it of itself is a tricky thing to prove, even the most advanced societies have difficulties with it, any taboo should obviously be broken however

 

[Al Muslim]

Lol so Somalia isn’t Islamic then? How many women are daily raped there and how often do the women reporting the rape stoned to death and the rapist free to walk??



What does a chart comparing murder rates between US and Saudi have to do with the discussion of feminism, rape and pedophilia?

Again, you have no statistics. You were provided with statistics about violent crime in saudi (which correlate with sexual crimes) and you just deflect. I have would have more luck talking to the dead than with you lot, you receive an opinion and you just chimp out and spam qashins.

 

[Angelina]

Rape in it of itself is a tricky thing to prove, even the most advanced societies have difficulties with it, any taboo should obviously be broken however

Yep it is, but what makes it so difficult in some Muslim societies is the obsession of honor at the expense of women. There are have been worrying cases of families honor killing girls when they find out she's been raped because of the shame of it all. Also, until very recently most ME, N. African and even Somalis legally thought it was acceptable to free rapists as long as they married the victim.

 

[Amirah]

Somalia isn’t a society that follows Islam. Praying salah and reading Quran doesn’t change that. The chart shows a country where there are more Islamic values and principles compared to a nation where ther isn’t. The evidence clearly shows that in a society where there is sharia to some degree and the punishment is more severe the crime happens less. The world isn’t perfect and there have always been and will always be men who commit such crimes. It’s the sad truth that this will never stop laakin you can’t deny that implementing harsher laws will greatly reduce it. The problem with feminism is that it isn’t realistic. Women need to take precautions since they never know what is gonna happen. It’s the sad reality but it’s the truth. Walking out at night without a mahram is putting yourself in danger.

My argument is having more Islamic values or sharia law doesn’t necessarily positively correlate with less rape or crimes. He disingenuously compared the US murder stats(any country compare to the US will look golden here)to Saudi to try paint that all countries that follow sharia have less rape(crime) and feminism isn’t needed. That’s horseshit! First Saudi doesn’t even make it the top 10 of countries with the lowest murder rate, Japan is #1, are they using sharia law too? And second murder and rape are not correlated, the same way theft and vandalism aren’t. One can have high rates of one and not necessarily the other. Also rape is one of the least reported crimes!

“Under Islamic law, the punishment which a court can impose on the rapist may range from flogging to execution. However, there is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. In addition, there is no prohibition of marital rape. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah, she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings.

Furthermore, “Human Rights Watch has investigated the situation, and their report concludes that a rape victim may be punished when they speak out against the crime. In one case, the victim's sentence was doubled for speaking out; and the court also harassed the victim's lawyer, going so far as to confiscate his professional licence.[6]

However, it has also been acknowledged that Shariah law, which punishes rapists,[7] serves as the basis of the country's legal system. However, the shariah does not include that women nor men be punished when they are a victim of rape.[8] Wiki

Here is a more appropriate map showing international rape scale for every country. Middle East and Africa scoring the highest. Somalia scoring perfect 10(of scale 1-10, 10 being the absolute worst)

Weighted Relative International Rape Scale

This chart shows The Weighted Relative International Rape Scale. Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent. The act may be car

chartsbin.com

Further reading.
accounthttps://www.google.com/amp/s/womanstats.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/the-high-rape-scale-in-saudi-arabia/amp/

Once again just goes to show that many of the people who are always ant-feminism and who argue that crimes against women aren’t really happening are people who either haven’t done their research or don’t care to because they have a narrative they want to promote regardless. Maybe they’re future or current predator themselves and don’t want anyone hampering their killing grounds. Whatever it is, it doesn’t take a rocket science to see how cruel the world is for the average women everywhere and why restrict laws and practices are needed for their protection.

@Revolutionary @Al Muslim

 

[Revolutionary]

Yep it is, but what makes it so difficult in some Muslim societies is the obsession of honor at the expense of women. There are have been worrying cases of families honor killing girls when they find out she's been raped because of the shame of it all. Also, until very recently most ME, N. African and even Somalis legally thought it was acceptable to free rapists as long as they married the victim.

A shame that is, however none of this is islamic in nature, these are cultural things just like fgm, ones that need to be rooted out of society, just another thing that shows that a lot of the criticisms of islamic societies are simply them not following islam properly

 

[Revolutionary]

My argument is having more Islamic values or sharia law doesn’t necessarily positively correlate with less rape or crimes. He disingenuously compared the US murder stats(any country compare to the US will look golden here)to Saudi to try paint that all countries that follow sharia have less rape(crime) and feminism isn’t needed. That’s horseshit! First Saudi doesn’t even make it the top 10 of countries with the lowest murder rate, Japan is #1, are they using sharia law too? And second murder and rape are not correlated, the same way theft and vandalism aren’t. One can have high rates of one and not necessarily the other. Also rape is one of the least reported crimes!

“Under Islamic law, the punishment which a court can impose on the rapist may range from flogging to execution. However, there is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. In addition, there is no prohibition of marital rape. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah, she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings.

Furthermore, “Human Rights Watch has investigated the situation, and their report concludes that a rape victim may be punished when they speak out against the crime. In one case, the victim's sentence was doubled for speaking out; and the court also harassed the victim's lawyer, going so far as to confiscate his professional licence.[6]

However, it has also been acknowledged that Shariah law, which punishes rapists,[7] serves as the basis of the country's legal system. However, the shariah does not include that women nor men be punished when they are a victim of rape.[8] Wiki

Here is a more appropriate map showing international rape scale for every country. Middle East and Africa scoring the highest. Somalia scoring perfect 10(of scale 1-10, 10 being the absolute worst)

Weighted Relative International Rape Scale

This chart shows The Weighted Relative International Rape Scale. Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent. The act may be car

chartsbin.com

Further reading.
accounthttps://www.google.com/amp/s/womanstats.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/the-high-rape-scale-in-saudi-arabia/amp/

Once again just goes to show that many of the people who are always ant-feminism and who argue that crimes against women aren’t really happening are people who either haven’t done their research or don’t care to because they have a narrative they want to promote regardless. Maybe they’re future or current predator themselves and don’t want anyone hampering their killing grounds. Whatever it is, it doesn’t take a rocket science to see how cruel the world is for the average women everywhere and why restrict laws and practices are needed for their protection.

@Revolutionary @Al Muslim

You have a knack of spinning what one said to a whole other thing, you've failed to properly read and reply to any of my messages. I've told you in two different replies that the trends in the statistics ive posted continues for rape cases as well and that you should check it out for yourself, and you instead decided to copy and pasted muslim law on rape
now to this specific point

"Human Rights Watch has investigated the situation, and their report concludes that a rape victim may be punished when they speak out against the crime. In one case, the victim's sentence was doubled for speaking out; and the court also harassed the victim's lawyer, going so far as to confiscate his professional licence"

This does not represent islamic affairs when it comes to rape, and I've said before that anything similar is these nations not following islamic laws properly

Once again just goes to show that many of the people who are always ant-feminism and who argue that crimes against women aren’t really happening are people who either haven’t done their research or don’t care to because they have a narrative they want to promote regardless. Maybe they’re future or current predator themselves and don’t want anyone hampering their killing grounds. Whatever it is, it doesn’t take a rocket science to see how cruel the world is for the average women everywhere and why restrict laws and practices are needed for their protection.

My entire point was that nations that truly followed islamic laws do not need feminism, and instead all you have to show otherwise was Saudi Arabians not following islamic law in regard to what the human rights warch reported, the irony of that is striking.

 

[Amirah]

.....My entire point was that nations that truly followed islamic laws do not need feminism, and instead all you have to show otherwise was Saudi Arabians not following islamic law in regard to what the human rights warch reported, the irony of that is striking.

Based on your argument we can also infer then that countries that Do Not Truly follow Islamic LAw then DO need feminism, correct? Ok now that’s been established, please go ahead and point to the country on the map that does truly follow Islamic law and its crime stats therein? And then I’d may be more incline to agree with you until then feminism is needed. Period.

 

[Revolutionary]

Based on your argument we can also infer then that countries that Do Not Truly follow Islamic LAw then DO need feminism, correct? Ok now that’s been established, please go ahead and point to the country on the map that does truly follow Islamic law and its crime stats therein? And then I’d may be more incline to agree with you until then feminism is needed. Period.

No, they need Islamic laws because with it in place you do not need feminism which was created for western women and their society in response to how they were treated, and the western experience and islamic experience are completely different in terms of history. there are some instances where what feminists advocated for where there is no problem with in islam and overlaps with islamic freedoms of women and there are instances where it does not, especially the later parts and what it has morphed to now