CABDULWALI XASAN.
Cabdul's Status CLOSED until further notice.
My information on this time period is not the best, I know there was USC in the south and SNM in the north for somaliland. What other major or minor factions were there thanks.
Factions during 1991+, Who were they and what were their goals.
- Thread starter CABDULWALI XASAN.
- Start date
After Siad Barre was ousted, many factions broke into tribal militias before joining the government.
The main factions were SNM, USC, SSDF, JVA, RRA, SPM, and the SNA/Barre loyalists. Several smaller factions changed loyalties depending on the larger militia in their area. Al-Ithaad was the first jihadist faction. After the Ethiopian invasion, tribal militias shifted toward deeply Islamist ideals.
SNM, USC, JVA, and SSDF sought to remove Siad Barre, while SPM initially supported him before switching to USC. SPM split and a faction under Morgan contributed to the famine in Bay and Bakool, causing around 500k deaths. RRA formed partly to stop ongoing atrocities.
Post-Barre, USC split into Mahdi (AB) and Aideed (HG) factions, leading to intense infighting even among direct relatives. Aideed advocated for a USC-SNM government, while Mahdi preferred partnering with Darood factions.
SNM and SSDF also faced tribal conflicts (see the pattern?) before resolving and establishing autonomous regions. SNM then purged unionist tribes within their territory before a disputed "referendum".
Each faction had lofty goals; USC said it wanted to implement federalism, SNM said it wanted to remain within Somalia, the truth is most operated to strengthen their clan's position in a post-Barre world.
The main factions were SNM, USC, SSDF, JVA, RRA, SPM, and the SNA/Barre loyalists. Several smaller factions changed loyalties depending on the larger militia in their area. Al-Ithaad was the first jihadist faction. After the Ethiopian invasion, tribal militias shifted toward deeply Islamist ideals.
SNM, USC, JVA, and SSDF sought to remove Siad Barre, while SPM initially supported him before switching to USC. SPM split and a faction under Morgan contributed to the famine in Bay and Bakool, causing around 500k deaths. RRA formed partly to stop ongoing atrocities.
Post-Barre, USC split into Mahdi (AB) and Aideed (HG) factions, leading to intense infighting even among direct relatives. Aideed advocated for a USC-SNM government, while Mahdi preferred partnering with Darood factions.
SNM and SSDF also faced tribal conflicts (see the pattern?) before resolving and establishing autonomous regions. SNM then purged unionist tribes within their territory before a disputed "referendum".
Each faction had lofty goals; USC said it wanted to implement federalism, SNM said it wanted to remain within Somalia, the truth is most operated to strengthen their clan's position in a post-Barre world.
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So Somalis fucked up their own country starved their own killing 300-500k stopped food from coming in and when America and the UN saved the people today we blame America and the west for something we did ?
Nobody in Somalia actually blames the west it was a civil war people blame each other though
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Pretty much, the only reason the west can f*ck around so much is because of the circumstances we created to let them.
Which tribes were "purged" from Somaliland? Please explain where they ended up. As I understand some people were unionist and some were seperatists and they fought a civil war over this fundemental question like all countries do (US civil war over slavery etc).
Which tribes were got rid of and where did they go?
Because what you wrote basically said some tribes were removed from Somaliland before a referendum took place. You may dislike the involvement of tribalism in politics but shouldn't rewrite history to support your view.
SNM performed mass killings in Awdal, like those in Dilla and Boroma.
"Within 12 hours, the SNM, a clannish rebel militia, fighting in theory against the central government, entered and mercilessly killed up to 1,000 civilians. "
"There was also absolutely no resistance or strategic need to shell a heavily populated . Earlier, those same men killed, raped, pillaged and burnt Dila, a small town not far from Borama.
"The city residents feared the SNM’s rapid advances. About 80,000 people fled Borama because of reports of indiscriminate shelling of towns by the SNM and summary executions of anyone suspected of working for the government or simply belonging to non-Isaaq clans."
"Borama’s population also increased when the Gadabursis were evicted from their homes in Hargeisa and Gabiley, as well as from their farms and grasslands. The demographic landscape of Awdal changed dramatically after the wave of terror."
"The SNM unleashed an unparalleled terror tantamount to ethnic cleansing. By that, I mean the systematic elimination of a clan from a region, as by forced emigration and killing."
And half a million people fled Hargeisa and Burao during the civil war. They returned. So stop deflecting and answer the question. (Your source is dubious too, please stick to academic and verifable sources, not sensationalized propagada articles).
Which tribes were purged from Somaliland?
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Read again. Whatever atrocities Siad Barre commited against the Isaaq did not in anyway justify the mass killings and yes purging "the abrupt or violent removal of a group of people from an organization or place." Which is different from a genocide which has a more permanent implication. 80,000 Gadabuursi being forced to flee, and the effects of the SNM being so great that it even permanently changed the demographics off Awdal, does that not sound like a massive purge has taken place, which when talking to survivors corraborates that claim?
Are you stupid or just playing dumb?
When conflicts happen people leave an area. You are suggesting some kind of forced displacement took place which is a total lie. People fled the much of the north during the civil war.
You are presenting a falsehood and bad faith argument that people who fled civil war were permenantly displaced. And this was somehow related some kind of referendum manipulation
Lol, I could accept that had it not been clear that the SNM specifically targetted civilians and the exodus of people happend to avoid the conflict between the government or other rebel groups and SNM, but that isnt the case as show in the quotes and links I have provided.
"The SNM aim was clear from the onset but, after death, destruction and forced expulsion, it ended up with a complete submission of the survivors that still prevails. The Borama massacre, as well as other mass killings in Awdal, left a painful memory and a traumatic effect of abandonment on the Gadabursi population. Borama took decades to recover from the disaster."
Besides, someone could take your argument and use it to discredit the blatant targetting of Isaaq civilians during Barres rule, with your logic, saying that the refugees and killing are a side-effect of a war, an argument he actually used.
Ad hominems are weak, make an argument without resorting to insults.
You have no evidence to support your number one claim:
1) People were permenantly displaced from Awdal.
You are simply quoting the numbers of people who left the area (according one dubious source) because of the conflict.
Sadly Somaliland doesnt recognize the Gadabuursi pain during the civil war and has stopped any serious digging in the scale of the massacres that took place. Testiminonies, and their are all a lot both orally and written corraborating it, are all that can be used to reconstructe the events that transpired almsot 30 decades ago.
People being permanently forced to vacate their homes to such a degree that it changes the demographics very much fits into the definition of a purge.
You have no evidence to support your number one claim:
1) People were permenantly displaced from Awdal.
You are simply quoting the numbers of people who left the area (according one dubious source) because of the conflict.
Like I said many people left the area, half a million from Hargeisa and Burao. Is anyone arguing these people were permenantly displaced? What evidence is there to suggest they were? Was the aerial bombardment of Hargeisa so terrible that they didn't want to go home?
Your hatred of Somaliland is leading to these strange and nonsensical arguments.
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You are continouisly ignoring the fact that the SNM deliberate targetted them with the goal of killing the civilian population.
"You have no evidence to support your number one claim" Their is plenty of evidence. I used those quotes as those were the most recent ones I've read.
If you want some homework, heres what I got for you.
"Between January and March 1991, the SNM enacted various killings against members of the Gadabursi tribe and anyone they deemed as supporters of Siad Barre."
"A wholesale killing of anyone deemed "Anti SNM" was established. At this point, (From January to March 1991), the SNM's militia were out of control, Gadabursi people travelling in their cars on the national highway were burned and looted."<- Boroma news had an article up based on this source that they had to remove, I wonder why ?
"the SNM orchestrated the destruction of the town of Dilla, and the looting of Borama, the capital city of Awdal region"
"Thousands of Gadabursi lives were lost in the attacks against the Awdal region, and the town of Dilla was destroyed and burned. The SNM assaulted, pillaged, and occupied Borama, the capital of the Awdal region, causing about 80,000 people to flee to Ethiopia"
"The town of Dilla was thoroughly and systematically destroyed by the SNM, and lied in ruins after the assault. Dilla civilians rural and urban property, were entirely plundered and looted by the SNM , apparently to avenge the past fierce resistance put up by the Reer Nuur, a sub clan of the Gadabursi. The Reer Nuur traditionally served as the buffer between the Gadabursi and the Isaaq"
"It was reported that the SNM were not after Siad Barre in the late 80s, but rather were against the Gadabursi."
"The SNM, after the mass killings, was then occupying Borama and the surrounding areas by force"
A lot of these are books so go on: https://singlelogin.re or other similar sites that host pirated books.
Besides, I do not hate any region or tribe in Somalia. Injustice is injustice and you should not feel the need to protect your kinsman who have done these things, the people effected by this were fellow muslims and Somalis, and its clear what "side" any muslim should take when it comes to this.
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Still deflecting. Can't have a conversation with someone who can't answer the main point. Instead just trying to throw as much dirt as possible into the conversation.
It's a simple point: show some evidence of the population displacement. If you can't just say you lied and move on.
This discussion isn't progressing and theres not point continuing it, because you keep shifting the focus, reiterating points I've already addressed. Even when I provide the requested sources, you seem to just go back to your basic programming without ever taking the time to reevalute your own position.
My first comment to you:
My last comment to you:
I'm still asking the same question:
Between those two points you spoke about people leaving during the civil war which I asked how it was permenant displacement (and questioned your sources)
Then you shifted your argument to the SNM vs civilians?
I think it's you shifting the focus but I'll leave that to others to decide.
This is what caused the civil war this was the turning point. Danyeers just couldn’t resist.
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