GENETICS Explain haplogroups in a simple way

[Som]

I know a few things about haplogroups but let me see if i understood everything correctly.
Most Somalis have e1b1b haplogroup, very few of us has J.
Let's say a somali individual had just 1 arab ancestor in the middle ages and the rest of his ancestry is somali, will this person show a J haplogroup despite having just 1 arab paternal ancestor 1000 years ago?
Same question for maghrebi arabs. As we know most moroccans and algerians have their own version of e1b1b , does this mean they never had any pure Arab paternal ancestor?

 

[Octavian]

Whats the rarest haplogroup for a somali to have without being mixed

 

[Marquis]

I know a few things about haplogroups but let me see if i understood everything correctly.
Most Somalis have e1b1b haplogroup, very few of us has J.
Let's say a somali individual had just 1 arab ancestor in the middle ages and the rest of his ancestry is somali, will this person show a J haplogroup despite having just 1 arab paternal ancestor 1000 years ago?
Same question for maghrebi arabs. As we know most moroccans and algerians have their own version of e1b1b , does this mean they never had any pure Arab paternal ancestor?

Yes, your haplogroup never changes as it will always be passed from father to son which is why Arab nationalists on forums, twitter, facebook etc are doing studies on haplogroup to prove their Arabness, this is the same with Berbers, Somalis.

There is also Europeans who are obsessed with R1a haplogroup to prove they are the true Aryans.

 

[Som]

Yes, your haplogroup never changes as it will always be passed from father to son which is why Arab nationalists on forums, twitter, facebook etc are doing studies on haplogroup to prove their Arabness, this is the same with Berbers, Somalis.

There is also Europeans who are obsessed with R1a haplogroup to prove they are the true Aryans.

So basically the whole shaykh darood thing is 100% proven to be fake.
What about autosomal DNA though? I always thought that e1b1b comes from the horn of africa but i also read that we Somalis get 40% of our ancestry from neolithic farmers (probably males) from west eurasia. So this means that our west eurasian ancestors had e1b1b which it's a bit confusing since we know that outside africa e1b1b is present only in southern Europe /near east and in relatively low percentages like 20% or something. Ethiopians also have around 40% of nelothic west eurasian admixture but they have high concentrations of J haplogroups.
How is this possible since we both get our non african ancestry from basically the same west eurasian neolithic migrants?

 

[The Somali Caesar]

Somalis are mainly Haplogroup E (80%), Haplogroup T (11%), Haplogroup J (3%), Haplogroup R1a (1.5%) and the rest other.

Haplogroups can go back 20,000+ years while the creation of Qabiils like Darood 9th Century or Isaaq 11 Century is relatively recent. Which I personally believe are both mythical lineages.

Also Haplogroups aren’t really important it’s the autosomal that’s relevant. For example me an Isaaq just because i have an Iranian Farmer Haplogroup doesn’t mean I can say We Wuz Persians and Shiet

 

[Marshall D Abdi]

So basically the whole shaykh darood thing is 100% proven to be fake.
What about autosomal DNA though? I always thought that e1b1b comes from the horn of africa but i also read that we Somalis get 40% of our ancestry from neolithic farmers (probably males) from west eurasia. So this means that our west eurasian ancestors had e1b1b which it's a bit confusing since we know that outside africa e1b1b is present only in southern Europe /near east and in relatively low percentages like 20% or something. Ethiopians also have around 40% of nelothic west eurasian admixture but they have high concentrations of J haplogroups.
How is this possible since we both get our non african ancestry from basically the same west eurasian neolithic migrants?

How does west euriasians look or those neolithic farmers

 

[Apollo]

Whats the rarest haplogroup for a somali to have without being mixed

E-V16/E-M281 (E1b1b2)

Only ONE guy on this forum has it of the many people who took these tests. It is native to Ethiopia and Somalia and isn't foreign.

I know a few things about haplogroups but let me see if i understood everything correctly.
Most Somalis have e1b1b haplogroup, very few of us has J.

Correct.

Let's say a somali individual had just 1 arab ancestor in the middle ages and the rest of his ancestry is somali, will this person show a J haplogroup despite having just 1 arab paternal ancestor 1000 years ago?

Not all Arabians are J1. That's a meme. Only something like 3/4 or 3/5 of them are. Yeah, it is the majority, but definitely not all. They got many other paternal lineages. Including some T and E carrying ones that have been present there for thousands of years, especially variants of E-M123 and E-M78.

Same question for maghrebi arabs. As we know most moroccans and algerians have their own version of e1b1b , does this mean they never had any pure Arab paternal ancestor?

Most Maghrebis do not have paternal ancestors from the Arab invasion of the Middle Ages. Their paternal ancestors are mostly of Berber or Phoenician (in the case of Tunisians) origin. They shifted languages through elite dominance similar to how Anatolians (present-day Turks) dropped Greek and Armenian for Turkic.

So basically the whole shaykh darood thing is 100% proven to be fake.
What about autosomal DNA though? I always thought that e1b1b comes from the horn of africa but i also read that we Somalis get 40% of our ancestry from neolithic farmers (probably males) from west eurasia. So this means that our west eurasian ancestors had e1b1b which it's a bit confusing since we know that outside africa e1b1b is present only in southern Europe /near east and in relatively low percentages like 20% or something. Ethiopians also have around 40% of nelothic west eurasian admixture but they have high concentrations of J haplogroups.
How is this possible since we both get our non african ancestry from basically the same west eurasian neolithic migrants?

E1b1b (E-M215) is about 35,000 years old and does come from the Horn of Africa (paleolithic).

But most of the E1b1b in the world (like over 95%) is actually E1b1b1 (notice the extra 1) (E-M35) and is substantially younger (24,000 years old) and appears to have mutated and originated in Northern Africa and has more genetic diversity around the Mediterranean basin than in the Horn of Africa.

The macro-sub-variant Somalis have is even much younger E1b1b1a1 (notice the extra A and a 1) is 13,000 years old (neolithic) and has definitely without a shadow of a doubt originated in Northern Africa. A 13,000 year old population carrying this paternal lineage was found in Northern Morocco, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taforalt#Ancient_DNA They are very close to the origin date of that lineage and pretty much have settled the region in Africa it came from. Autosomally, this population were roughly 2/3 Eurasian in origin and 1/3 Sub-Saharan African. This is why East Africans with E-M35 lineages often also carry elevated levels of Levantine Neolithic affinity.

One more thing, Somalis have 40-45% non-L (that is non-Sub-Saharan African) maternal lineages and this is pretty much 1-on-1 in alignment with the estimated 40% Southwest Eurasian Neolithic ancestry. This is because women have less of a dynamic range when it comes to reproduction than men.

 

[Som]

E-V16/E-M281 (E1b1b2)

Only ONE guy on this forum has it of the many people who took these tests. It is native to Ethiopia and Somalia and isn't foreign.



Correct.



Not all Arabians are J1. That's a meme. Only something like 3/4 or 3/5 of them are. Yeah, it is the majority, but definitely not all. They got many other paternal lineages. Including some T and E carrying ones that have been present there for thousands of years, especially variants of E-M123 and E-M78.



Most Maghrebis do not have paternal ancestors from the Arab invasion of the Middle Ages. Their paternal ancestors are mostly of Berber or Phoenician (in the case of Tunisians) origin. They shifted languages through elite dominance similar to how Anatolians (present-day Turks) dropped Greek and Armenian for Turkic.



E1b1b (E-M215) is about 35,000 years old and does come from the Horn of Africa (paleolithic).

But most of the E1b1b in the world (like over 95%) is actually E1b1b1 (notice the extra 1) (E-M35) and is substantially younger (24,000 years old) and appears to have mutated and originated in Northern Africa and has more genetic diversity around the Mediterranean basin than in the Horn of Africa.

The macro-sub-variant Somalis have is even much younger E1b1b1a1 (notice the extra A and a 1) is 13,000 years old (neolithic) and has definitely without a shadow of a doubt originated in Northern Africa. A 13,000 year old population carrying this paternal lineage was found in Northern Morocco, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taforalt#Ancient_DNA They are very close to the origin date of that lineage and pretty much have settled the region in Africa it came from. Autosomally, this population were roughly 2/3 Eurasian in origin and 1/3 Sub-Saharan African. This is why East Africans with E-M35 lineages often also carry elevated levels of Levantine Neolithic affinity.

One more thing, Somalis have 40-45% non-L (that is non-Sub-Saharan African) maternal lineages and this is pretty much 1-on-1 in alignment with the estimated 40% Southwest Eurasian Neolithic ancestry. This is because women have less of a dynamic range when it comes to reproduction than men.

Thanks, so it's possible we also got eurasian dna from maternal ancestry

 

[Marshall D Abdi]

E-V16/E-M281 (E1b1b2)

Only ONE guy on this forum has it of the many people who took these tests. It is native to Ethiopia and Somalia and isn't foreign.



Correct.



Not all Arabians are J1. That's a meme. Only something like 3/4 or 3/5 of them are. Yeah, it is the majority, but definitely not all. They got many other paternal lineages. Including some T and E carrying ones that have been present there for thousands of years, especially variants of E-M123 and E-M78.



Most Maghrebis do not have paternal ancestors from the Arab invasion of the Middle Ages. Their paternal ancestors are mostly of Berber or Phoenician (in the case of Tunisians) origin. They shifted languages through elite dominance similar to how Anatolians (present-day Turks) dropped Greek and Armenian for Turkic.



E1b1b (E-M215) is about 35,000 years old and does come from the Horn of Africa (paleolithic).

But most of the E1b1b in the world (like over 95%) is actually E1b1b1 (notice the extra 1) (E-M35) and is substantially younger (24,000 years old) and appears to have mutated and originated in Northern Africa and has more genetic diversity around the Mediterranean basin than in the Horn of Africa.

The macro-sub-variant Somalis have is even much younger E1b1b1a1 (notice the extra A and a 1) is 13,000 years old (neolithic) and has definitely without a shadow of a doubt originated in Northern Africa. A 13,000 year old population carrying this paternal lineage was found in Northern Morocco, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taforalt#Ancient_DNA They are very close to the origin date of that lineage and pretty much have settled the region in Africa it came from. Autosomally, this population were roughly 2/3 Eurasian in origin and 1/3 Sub-Saharan African. This is why East Africans with E-M35 lineages often also carry elevated levels of Levantine Neolithic affinity.

One more thing, Somalis have 40-45% non-L (that is non-Sub-Saharan African) maternal lineages and this is pretty much 1-on-1 in alignment with the estimated 40% Southwest Eurasian Neolithic ancestry. This is because women have less of a dynamic range when it comes to reproduction than men.

So basically proto somalis were mixed between old ppl from levant who settled n mixed with nilotic ppl

 

[Moholin01]

Somalis are mainly Haplogroup E (80%), Haplogroup T (11%), Haplogroup J (3%), Haplogroup R1a (1.5%) and the rest other.

Haplogroups can go back 20,000+ years while the creation of Qabiils like Darood 9th Century or Isaaq 11 Century is relatively recent. Which I personally believe are both mythical lineages.

Also Haplogroups aren’t really important it’s the autosomal that’s relevant. For example me an Isaaq just because i have an Iranian Farmer Haplogroup doesn’t mean I can say We Wuz Persians and Shiet View attachment 141579

Actually, autosomal is the least useful because it depends on DNA company's reference populations. For example, Somalis kept getting South Eastern Bantu whenever they did AncestryDNA, because of their poor HOA reference samples.

As for the your haplogroup, the most important thing is the TMRCA - most recent common ancestor. For Somalis with E haplogroup it's rough 2000-3000 years. For T Somalis, it's about 2000 years. Your Iranian farmer ancestors (if T came from Iran, instead of the Caucasus) would be 6000-7000 years ago.

 

[Apollo]

So basically proto somalis were mixed between old ppl from levant who settled n mixed with nilotic ppl

Not proto-Somalis, but proto-Cushites (way earlier, like 8,000 years ago). Somali speaking people did not exist then. The Somali language is max 2,000 years old. The earliest Somalis were the same as today's ethnic Somalis.

 

[Aurelian]

E-V16/E-M281 (E1b1b2)

Only ONE guy on this forum has it of the many people who took these tests. It is native to Ethiopia and Somalia and isn't foreign.



Correct.



Not all Arabians are J1. That's a meme. Only something like 3/4 or 3/5 of them are. Yeah, it is the majority, but definitely not all. They got many other paternal lineages. Including some T and E carrying ones that have been present there for thousands of years, especially variants of E-M123 and E-M78.



Most Maghrebis do not have paternal ancestors from the Arab invasion of the Middle Ages. Their paternal ancestors are mostly of Berber or Phoenician (in the case of Tunisians) origin. They shifted languages through elite dominance similar to how Anatolians (present-day Turks) dropped Greek and Armenian for Turkic.



E1b1b (E-M215) is about 35,000 years old and does come from the Horn of Africa (paleolithic).

But most of the E1b1b in the world (like over 95%) is actually E1b1b1 (notice the extra 1) (E-M35) and is substantially younger (24,000 years old) and appears to have mutated and originated in Northern Africa and has more genetic diversity around the Mediterranean basin than in the Horn of Africa.

The macro-sub-variant Somalis have is even much younger E1b1b1a1 (notice the extra A and a 1) is 13,000 years old (neolithic) and has definitely without a shadow of a doubt originated in Northern Africa. A 13,000 year old population carrying this paternal lineage was found in Northern Morocco, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taforalt#Ancient_DNA They are very close to the origin date of that lineage and pretty much have settled the region in Africa it came from. Autosomally, this population were roughly 2/3 Eurasian in origin and 1/3 Sub-Saharan African. This is why East Africans with E-M35 lineages often also carry elevated levels of Levantine Neolithic affinity.

One more thing, Somalis have 40-45% non-L (that is non-Sub-Saharan African) maternal lineages and this is pretty much 1-on-1 in alignment with the estimated 40% Southwest Eurasian Neolithic ancestry. This is because women have less of a dynamic range when it comes to reproduction than men.

So we are paternaly 80-90% and maternaly 40 % Euroasian? But at the same time 55 % of our DNA is sub saharan?

 

[Apollo]

So we are paternaly 80-90% and maternaly 40 % Euroasian? But at the same time 55 % of our DNA is sub saharan?

It's not that easy to say. The maternal side is easier to split up. But the E-M78 paternal ancestors of Somalis likely carried BOTH Eurasian and African autosomal ancestry (see those autosomal results of those early 13,000 year old Taforalt remains).

By the way, paternal ancestry is usually unrepresentative of the whole genome. The Basque in Spain are almost completely Indo-European (''Ukrainian''/South Russian steppe - see this) on their paternal side (R lineage), but autosomally only like 10% and their language is not Indo-European. We know this for certain as they have done many Ancient DNA studies (testing remains/bones) in Spain and know what the pre-Indo-European population was composed of.

PS. It is 60% (for the last figure).