Evidence of somali pharaonic tradition from xiis grave goods

[cunug3aad]

Related to this i think its intresting how people talk about the other name for punt which was ta -ntr which is translated everywhere as land of the gods and if you go on Wikipedia they'll say that some early eygptologists translated it as "land of ths ancestors " i had just assumed it was for some pseudhistory reasons.

But when you look at the word for god in ancient eygptian that is being used. Its very clear there is more than one meaning and that referring to it as just "land of the gods" is honestly kind of deceptive .

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There is actually no ancient eygptian word for "ancestors" so its not like they would've been able use to some other word.

Because their gods were based on forefathers that lived in the past i think their biggest gods were the oldest forefathers. Its like how in somalia they have qabriga of the progenitors of a lot of clans and the saints which they do tawasul from But in this indigenous religions it would be on a much larger scale because there is no islaam discouraging it. So it would be like if every qabiil and sub qabiil father was venerated and like hawiye and darood and those people would be biggest in the pantheon

Land of the gods is a bad translation to use as you said because it doesnt explain what the ancient egyptions considered a god, could be animalistic or idol or fictional or just hyperbole like they do in english now the word god godly and other forms are lost their proper meaning

However i think land of the ancestors though better in that regard might be an even worse translation to use because it implies without context that the ancient egyptians just came from wherever that place is when it is probably more complicated than that. I think Proto somalis and ancient upper egyptians split from each other and moved separately into eritrea/woqooyi region and egypt respectively and the egyptians belief system changed from just venerating forefathers to being more rigid in the pantheon and more organised as they encountered nile and farming and agrarian llife. But the proto somalis stayed venerating their ancestors when they migrated east and south as they maintained pastoralism in the arid regions. So when egyptian traders trading with proto somali traders in punt they name it land of gods/ancestors for that reason

 

[Midas]

However i think land of the ancestors though better in that regard might be an even worse translation to use because it implies without context that the ancient egyptians just came from wherever that place is when it is probably more complicated than that. I think Proto somalis and ancient upper egyptians split from each other and moved separately into eritrea/woqooyi region and egypt respectively and the egyptians belief system changed from just venerating forefathers to being more rigid in the pantheon and more organised as they encountered nile and farming and agrarian llife. But the proto somalis stayed venerating their ancestors when they migrated east and south as they maintained pastoralism in the arid regions. So when egyptian traders trading with proto somali traders in punt they name it land of gods/ancestors for that reason

Ancient eygpt only became a unified country in 3000 b.c. before that you had the upper eygptian kingdoms and the lower eygptian kingdoms.
But these proto somalis were already trading with the ancient upper eygptians by 4,000 b.c and likely earlier.

Also keep in mind that the eygptian looked down on all their neighbors as less than them . It seems incredibly weird to associate some random land as a divine place. I get why it might seem random but doesnt it also seem strange how 75% of upper eygptians who are farmers all seem to share a single haplogroup and the only people who also seem to have that same haplogroup in over 70% of their pouplation is somalis ? I could at least understand if you had a decent amount of Ethiopians or Eritreans who had this haplogroup. But it's also missing from them .

 

[yele25]

Ancient eygpt only became a unified country in 3000 b.c. before that you had the upper eygptian kingdoms and the lower eygptian kingdoms.
But these proto somalis were already trading with the ancient upper eygptians by 4,000 b.c and likely earlier.

Also keep in mind that the eygptian looked down on all their neighbors as less than them . It seems incredibly weird to associate some random land as a divine place. I get why it might seem random but doesnt it also seem strange how 75% of upper eygptians who are farmers all seem to share a single haplogroup and the only people who also seem to have that same haplogroup in over 70% of their pouplation is somalis ? I could at least understand if you had a decent amount of Ethiopians or Eritreans who had this haplogroup. But it's also missing from them .

plus 8.2 % of eygptians 116.5 mill is halpogroup T, you rarely find that in sudan and ethiopia/Eritrea. but in somalia and eygpt in millions. Both e1b1b and T are always found together in pre zargros migration in levantine, babaylon and arabia too

 

[Midas]

plus 8.2 % of eygptians 116.5 mill is halpogroup T, you rarely find that in sudan and ethiopia/Eritrea. but in somalia and eygpt in millions. Both e1b1b and T are always found together in pre zargros migration in levantine, babaylon and arabia too

Damn really? I didn't know about that.

 

[yele25]

Damn really? I didn't know about that.

and they are mostly in Upper eygpt aswan/ luxor area

 

[Midas]

and they are mostly in Upper eygpt aswan/ luxor area

Damn I gotta wonder how it got there.

You know if proto somalis did actually travel to upper eygpt. Then its likley considering how somalis from djbouti to western sanaag are haplogroup t that they brought an earlier form of it there.

Of course this assumes that t arrived in a very early back migration into somalia.

 

[Idilinaa]

Don’t have much to add to this since archaeology in Somalia is still very much in its infancy. Some of the items discovered so far can’t really be verified/certified because they were unearthed by amateurs without proper academic documentation.

I think Said Shidaad once floated the theory that there was a Neolithic migration from northern Somalia to southern Egypt.

One thing is certain, though , there must have been some form of sustained trade or interaction, otherwise it would be difficult to explain the observable cultural and material similarities. Only systematic archaeological research will be able to clarify this further.

 

[Midas]

Don’t have much to add to this since archaeology in Somalia is still very much in its infancy. Some of the items discovered so far can’t really be verified/certified because they were unearthed by amateurs without proper academic documentation.

I think Said Shidaad once floated the theory that there was a Neolithic migration from northern Somalia to southern Egypt.

One thing is certain, though , there must have been some form of sustained trade or interaction, otherwise it would be difficult to explain the observable cultural and material similarities. Only systematic archaeological research will be able to clarify this further.

Damn thats crazy i didnt know that he had that theory? But yeah this is gonna require a massive amount of evidence to prove. Even i wouldnt have taken this seriously if I hadn't been looking into this stuff for a couple months.

What sent me down this whole rabbit hole is discovering that agriculture only began extremely late in eygpt. Literally all of Europe got agriculture from the levant/anatolia before agriculture began in eygpt.

Then the nuweyrat old king sample proved that agriculture in eygpt came from north african farmers and not from levantine farmers migrating into eygpt.

 

[NidarNidar]

Don’t have much to add to this since archaeology in Somalia is still very much in its infancy. Some of the items discovered so far can’t really be verified/certified because they were unearthed by amateurs without proper academic documentation.

I think Said Shidaad once floated the theory that there was a Neolithic migration from northern Somalia to southern Egypt.

One thing is certain, though , there must have been some form of sustained trade or interaction, otherwise it would be difficult to explain the observable cultural and material similarities. Only systematic archaeological research will be able to clarify this further.

Got to keep in mind that the Gash culture is or was a part of Punt and kept trade with Kemet for long time, eventually as the African humid period ended in NEA, people were forced to migrate to better pastures forming cities on the Somali coasts, moving inland modern day Ethiopia etc...

"Recently it has been suggested that Sudan and the northern Horn of Africa have significantly contributed to the development of early agriculture in the Middle East and Asia." They were trading as far as India, so hard sturdy boats.

 

[Midas]

Got to keep in mind that the Gash culture is or was a part of Punt and kept trade with Kemet for long time, eventually as the African humid period ended in NEA, people were forced to migrate to better pastures forming cities on the Somali coasts, moving inland modern day Ethiopia etc...

"Recently it has been suggested that Sudan and the northern Horn of Africa have significantly contributed to the development of early agriculture in the Middle East and Asia." They were trading as far as India, so hard sturdy boats.

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I think once the archeology gets more advanced will realize that the Highlands weren't inhabited because the iron tools require to clear the dense forests didnt exist. I'm even beginning to suspect that the reason we only see an agriculture based civilization emerge in the 1st millennium b.c so rapidly is because these levtantine migrants brought iron technology as well as agricultural knowledge with them.

In regards to the gash group I think the authors are basically right in that it didn't at all countbue to state formation elsewhere in the horn and was likley just a localized phenomenon. I also dont think the gash group had anything to do with punt. Its far too inland of a civilization to likley have done coastal trade.

 

[NidarNidar]

I think once the archeology gets more advanced will realize that the Highlands weren't inhabited because the iron tools require to clear the dense forests didnt exist. I'm even beginning to suspect that the reason we only see an agriculture based civilization emerge in the 1st millennium b.c so rapidly is because these levtantine migrants brought iron technology as well as agricultural knowledge with them.

In regards to the gash group I think the authors are basically right in that it didn't at all countbue to state formation elsewhere in the horn and was likley just a localized phenomenon. I also dont think the gash group had anything to do with punt. Its far too inland of a civilization to likley have done coastal trade.

Iron metalurgy but not agricultural knowledge, gash culture was an agropastoral seafaring society, who brought domesticat Sorghum and Pearl Millet across Africa and into India and Arabia.

They grow Wheat, Barley, and domesticated Sorghum & millet, cowpeas, flax.

 

[Midas]

Iron metalurgy but not agricultural knowledge, gash culture was an agropastoral seafaring society, who brought domesticat Sorghum and Pearl Millet across Africa and into India and Arabia.

They grow Wheat, Barley, and domesticated Sorghum & millet, cowpeas, flax.

It wasnt them bro.

There's several papers on the soutehrn red sea coastal trade on obsidian from the afar region and then later coastal Yemen dating from the 5th millennium b.c almost 2,000 years before the gash group.

My best guess is that proto-somalis brought obsidian from the afar region on the backs of donekys and then used that obsidian to produce all sorts of tools including axes to cut down wood for shipbuilding. They also had acess to easy natural ports in the somali coast

 

[Xareen]

I think Said Shidaad once floated the theory that there was a Neolithic migration from northern Somalia to southern Egypt.

Lol reminds me of another author theorising that robust PGR skeletons were not indigenous to Sayala but migrants from Somalia of all places. Really quite silly on all levels this one.