Does it make sense to build a state?

[Itsnotthateasy]

I hear a lot of people blaming different clans for the problems in Somalia and maybe that's true but it's besides the point.

If there are enough people (particularly in the South) that are not interested in a state or actively oppose it for their own interests then a state can't be built. If you add powerful non-state actors like the extremists the situation is basically mission impossible.

In the old days, if powerful countries saw a place like Somalia they would just attack it until the problems stopped (piracy and extremism) or there was no one left. They might even occupy the place. If the battle was too hard sometimes they just put up a wall (Great wall of China, Hadrians wall)

The idea of coming into a country and building a state is actually a crazy idea. If the people don't want it there's no chance in hell it's going to work.

So why do they bother? They do it for the system. The international order. Having failed states around is bad for the whole system. Like a derelict house in the neighbourhood it brings down all of the house values, so the powerful countries go in there and to fix it up. Not only they do they try to fix it up, they have to believe it can be fixed. So at some point they stop working on it and it collapses. It's kind of irrational behaviour.

Anyway just some random thoughts.

 

[Aurelian]

No one involves in things that they don't profit from.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

No one involves in things that they don't profit from.

The only one profiting is the Turks and maybe the UAE but they are just scavengers.
The countries trying to uphold international order haven't made a penny out of Somalia and never will - they sunk billions.

 

[RiceMuncher]

Who the f wants to live in anarchy? If some of the elite ppl see their fortunes threatened by a stable Somalia doesn't mean the average man/woman wants to live in that state. Moreover it was by design Somalia was fractured and the south in perpetual war. Who helped SL train their soldiers at the start? Who pushed SNM on the indepence idea? As that was never something they stated while in war. What country did your leaders always make a pilgrimage to?

If we're being honest with ourselves as somalis, we played a dangerous game with a neighbour and lost the game unfortunately. We're now trying to piece together the pieces. Luckily we have the biggest war machine in the world behind us, which is aslo why said neighbours can't do much to sabotage the FG like they did with all other somali peace agreements, other than try lowkey tactics destined for failure.

Somalia will continue to exist and comparing the last 10 years and today makes me believe we'll also prosper IA.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Who the f wants to live in anarchy? If some of the elite ppl see their fortunes threatened by a stable Somalia doesn't mean the average man/woman wants to live in that state. Moreover it was by design Somalia was fractured and the south in perpetual war. Who helped SL train their soldiers at the start? Who pushed SNM on the indepence idea? As that was never something they stated while in war. What country did your leaders always make a pilgrimage to?

If we're being honest with ourselves as somalis, we played a dangerous game with a neighbour and lost the game unfortunately. We're now trying to piece together the pieces. Luckily we have the biggest war machine in the world behind us, which is aslo why said neighbours can't do much to sabotage the FG like they did with all other somali peace agreements, other than try lowkey tactics destined for failure.

Somalia will continue to exist and comparing the last 10 years and today makes me believe we'll also prosper IA.

The people in the south (not naming names) chose anarchy. And they still chosse anarchy to this day.

If they didn't choose anarchy they would have established power sharing structure. They would have set up government for themselves and done it all for free and off their own backs and the rest would have been history. Somaliland did just that that's why a state exists minus all the powerful support.

Blaming Ethiopia is just reality denial.

 

[RiceMuncher]

The people in the south (not naming names) chose anarchy. And they still chosse anarchy to this day.

If they didn't choose anarchy they would have established power sharing structure. They would have set up government for themselves and done it all for free and off their own backs and the rest would have been history. Somaliland did just that that's why a state exists minus all the powerful support.

Blaming Ethiopia is just reality denial.

Aboute the same time the gov fell our neighbour had the same situation unfolding. Lets say their leader never left the country before destroying the fabric of the society and the calling for his tol for support. At the same time Somalia and formed a government. Where in Eth. do you think the somali gov would focus on in their destabilizing efforts? Of course the base of power, Addis.

I gotta go maybe finish it after.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Aboute the same time the gov fell our neighbour had the same situation unfolding. Lets say their leader never left the country before destroying the fabric of the society and the calling for his tol for support. At the same time Somalia and formed a government. Where in Eth. do you think the somali gov would focus on in their destabilizing efforts? Of course the base of power, Addis.

I gotta go maybe finish it after.

The Somalis started fighting eachother that's what happened. No powersharing arrangment was made.

Then the situation devolved into warlordism.

In order to have a state - you need to decide on a stable powersharing arrangement and no one wanted to. The elites prefer warlordism and they got put out of business so went into Federal Government.

Delusional to shift the blame to Ethiopia. It takes two to tango.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Somaliland's border in the future.

Instead of trying to build a Mongol led, and Mongol owned political process (because the Mongols just end up killing military trainers and stealing the food rations and doing nothing about the raiding hoardes), the IC should go to actual working solutions from the past.