Does Anyone Know World Bank/IMF?

[DR OSMAN]

Do you guys know much about the IMF, World Bank? I hear many African countries complaining that their status to borrow is restricted due to their shitty 'strong man, weak system' which makes their credit score very low and risky. I heard their credit rating is so low, it's deemed 50 time riskier then european countries? Imagine how low Somalia credit score would be since we are generally 4th world not even 3rd world.

I think the IMF/World banks approves only humanitarian aid for Somalia not investors or loans. Somalia can't nation build thru rice-bags and I think that is the intention. Plus I doubt these IMF/World banks actually hold the 'asset or cash reserves' but rely on western economies and play a governance role only.

I wonder do Western govt and banks pick up Somalia credit report and then comply to the world bank/imf rating not to loan anything to Somalia? No wonder it's an NGO heaven.

Gee I hope Farmajo Debt Relief opens up channels or were doomed to charities and humanitarian assistance and the poverty trap that it leads too which is permanent dependence.

 

[NordicSomali]

Debt is very strange, the richest people get low rates for the same amount as poor people, it has nothing to do with who needs the money. It’s not charity, they want to make money on money.

 

[Bari🐍]

If you want to borrow from the IMF you usually have to adhere to their policy advice. They won't give you economic assistance if you don't change. I remember reading about a country I forget which, but they had a weak taxation system and one of the requirements from the IMF to get a loan was to crack down on it. They are big promoters of neoliberalism. Corporations must be privatized, the state should intervene less, markets should be free blah blah that usual stuff. There's a lot of critics though that say their ideas have not really worked and can't be applied in developing countries.

 

[DR OSMAN]

If you want to borrow from the IMF you usually have to adhere to their policy advice. They won't give you economic assistance if you don't change. I remember reading about a country I forget which, but they had a weak taxation system and one of the requirements from the IMF to get a loan was to crack down on it. They are big promoters of neoliberalism. Corporations must be privatized, the state should intervene less, markets should be free blah blah that usual stuff. There's a lot of critics though that say their ideas have not really worked and can't be applied in developing countries.

The IMF/World Bank loans do they have their bank reserves or are they linked to western countries who use them as check n balance or policy advise and is similar to NGO who don't own the money and only western charities and aid use them as their donation or aid stream. Or do they have their own separate reserves?

 

[bidenkulaha]

The IMF/World Bank loans do they have their bank reserves or are they linked to western countries who use them as check n balance or policy advise and is similar to NGO who don't own the money and only western charities and aid use them as their donation or aid stream. Or do they have their own separate reserves?

‘In the IMF, the United States contributes 17.67 per cent of the capital subscriptions which are the institution's primary source of financing’

‘The IMF's largest member is the United States, with a quota (as of April 30, 2016) of SDR 83 billion(about $118 billion)’

 

[DR OSMAN]

‘In the IMF, the United States contributes 17.67 per cent of the capital subscriptions which are the institution's primary source of financing’

‘The IMF's largest member is the United States, with a quota (as of April 30, 2016) of SDR 83 billion(about $118 billion)’

But the Reserve or assets are owned by America govt and IMF is allocated from AMERICA wealth a portion to do nation building loans? is that correct. Or do World Bank/IMF have their own reserves or investment portfolios and america and the west is a donor?

 

[bidenkulaha]

But the Reserve or assets are owned by America govt and IMF is allocated from AMERICA wealth a portion to do nation building loans? is that correct. Or do World Bank/IMF have their own reserves or investment portfolios and america and the west is a donor?

A quick search says their money is completely from member state subscriptions (quotas) and loans.

 

[DR OSMAN]

A quick search says their money is completely from member state subscriptions (quotas) and loans.

The IMF/World Bank tend to hold great power over the nation building of many countries as they can ban access to nation building loans since they have the whole western economies as subscribers to their credit rating reports. China seems to do it's foreign loans are strictly linked to nation building, charities or humanitarian isn't apart of their foreign loan component.

The west can keep any country it wants under humanitarian or NGO status and thus lock that country to forever dependence becuz they can't nation build roads-electricity-ports-airports-drainage-sewages-farming security-clean water access-Schools-Healthwhich are the most critical to nation build before investors come along and can even crete jobs. If those are absent becuz your black listed to humanitarian, the poverty cycle never ends.

China foreign loans are easy to access and less restrictive and they get the job done to nation build not rely on rice bags and continue waiting 4 more rice bags.

 

[bidenkulaha]

The IMF/World Bank tend to hold great power over the nation building of many countries as they can ban access to nation building loans since they have the whole western economies as subscribers to their credit rating reports. China seems to do it's foreign loans are strictly linked to nation building, charities or humanitarian isn't apart of their foreign loan component.

The west can keep any country it wants under humanitarian or NGO status and thus lock that country to forever dependence becuz they can't nation build roads-electricity-ports-airports-drainage-sewages-farming security-clean water access-Schools-Health which are the most critical to nation build before investors come along and can even crete jobs. If those are absent becuz your black listed to humanitarian, the poverty cycle never ends.

Look at this

https://www.ft.com/content/b2a607aa-c8c9-11e8-ba8f-ee390057b8c9

This year, the Trump administration has been among the most enthusiastic supporters of the IMF’s $57bn loan package to Argentina — its largest in history — which has brought the IMF and the White House closer. The experience has shown US officials that the Fund can be helpful in stabilising countries in the western hemisphere that have friendly relations with Washington, as Argentina does under centre-right president Mauricio Macri. Any boost to IMF funding from US taxpayers would have to pass Congress, which has been a cause for delay in the past, and could bring new hurdles this time as well.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Look at this

https://www.ft.com/content/b2a607aa-c8c9-11e8-ba8f-ee390057b8c9

This year, the Trump administration has been among the most enthusiastic supporters of the IMF’s $57bn loan package to Argentina — its largest in history — which has brought the IMF and the White House closer. The experience has shown US officials that the Fund can be helpful in stabilising countries in the western hemisphere that have friendly relations with Washington, as Argentina does under centre-right president Mauricio Macri. Any boost to IMF funding from US taxpayers would have to pass Congress, which has been a cause for delay in the past, and could bring new hurdles this time as well.

IMF/World Bank and it's subscriber pool of nation building loans I would assume out-strips China, If im not incorrect. China seems like the better option but their nation building loans would be far smaller to handle the needs of Africa. Somalia should pursue the west for this, it's better long-term and give their investors what industries they seek in return.

Remember these are loans, so it has to be re-paid and therefore they need to ensure you have proven systems in place to even re-pay. They must only go towards nation building initiatives and nowhere else becuz that country won't be able to be tapped into by foreign or local companies to create jobs which will raise up the govt revenues so it can set aside yearly portions to re-pay it's debt.

Nation building schemes must cover physical-social infrastructure needed for private investors to come and create industries

 

[DR OSMAN]

@bidenkulaha it's sad but we r being held hostage to ngos/humanitarian aid because of 1000 elites nation-wide who refuse to develop robust and certified systems and rule of law instruments/enforcement becuz they want their 'commission or bonus' in every project, which won't happen from IMF/World bank subscribers nations. So 10 million ppl all lose due to personal interests of 1000 people every 5 years in our state.

These r loans, it must be re-paid, commission/bonus is nothing but losses too them. The loans must go towards nation building assets only so it can then create industries which then raises revenue for govt to set aside it's loan repayments yearly. They also want their foreign companies given preference to be able tap into industries, once nation building era is complete.

 

[bidenkulaha]

@bidenkulaha it's sad but we r being held hostage by 1000 elites nation-wide to develop robust and certified systems and rule of law becuz they want their 'commission or bonus' which won't happen from IMF/World bank subscribers nations. These r loans, it must be re-paid, commission/bonus is nothing but losses too them. The loans must go towards nation building assets only so it can then create industries which then raises revenue for govt. They also want their foreign companies to be able tap into industries once nation building era is complete.

We should borrow small amounts. Prove we can for each 100 spent we can raise 10% of that in revenue. Build trust and confidence, spread it across all regions.

It would be a tragedy of the likes of that Barawe airport Kheyre was supposedly building happens and we have nothing to show for these loans we’ll be taking.

Hopefully the IMF mandate us to deal with corruption. It’s the only way our politicians will ever pushed to doing something

 

[DR OSMAN]

We should borrow small amounts. Prove we can for each 100 spent we can raise 10% of that in revenue. Build trust and confidence, spread it across all regions.

It would be a tragedy of the likes of that Barawe airport Kheyre was supposedly building happens and we have nothing to show for these loans we’ll be taking.

Hopefully the IMF mandate us to deal with corruption. It’s the only way our politicians will ever pushed to doing something

Once the physical/social infrastructure is built(hospitals, schools, farming, clean water, airport, ports, energy, drainage, sewages) this will lead to an influx of local-diaspora-foreigners rushing in to create industries becuz all that infrastructure needs to be there first before they come. These short-sighted elites don't know they can do their backdoor commission/bonuses with 1000's of private companies fighting for their market, but don't attempt to do this with nation building bank loans.

So now were stuck with them going around trying to tap into the 'small' foreign aid of arab/turkey and getting their commisions there, those economies will not and cannot support nation building becuz they don't have the funds for it. So now u have turkey sitting on mogadishu port/airport milking it for 30 years to re-sent to turkey but it won't develop it, and even if it does their capacity is limited becuz foreign aid is small portion of their govt revenues.

So we go around tryin to collect crumbs from arabs and turks so our elites can get their measly commission/bonus, but our nation suffers becuz were isolated from the REAL nation building banks like IMF/World bank with the global monster economies pooling it's funds together. What a sad situation but this NGO/Humanitarian situation will never end, just sit there and consume and when empty, come back for more consumptions which is exactly what their NGO or AID wants so it can support to grow its NGO/AID companies.

We don't win, in 100 years we will be in the same cycle of consuming, going hungry, begging again becuz of 1000 elites refusing to create proper rule of law-instruments-enforcement becuz they fear it will end their corruption.

 

[bidenkulaha]

Once the physical/social infrastructure is built(hospitals, schools, farming, clean water, airport, ports, energy, drainage, sewages) this will lead to an influx of local-diaspora-foreigners rushing in to create industries becuz all that infrastructure needs to be there first before they come. These short-sighted elites don't know they can do their backdoor commission/bonuses with 1000's of private companies fighting for their market, but don't attempt to do this with nation building bank loans.

So now were stuck with them going around trying to tap into the 'small' foreign aid of arab/turkey and getting their commisions there, those economies will not and cannot support nation building becuz they don't have the funds for it. So now u have turkey sitting on mogadishu port/airport milking it for 30 years to re-sent to turkey but it won't develop it, and even if it does their capacity is limited becuz foreign aid is small portion of their govt revenues.

So we go around tryin to collect crumbs from arabs and turks so our elites can get their measly commission/bonus, but our nation suffers becuz were isolated from the REAL nation building banks like IMF/World bank with the global monster economies pooling it's funds together. What a sad situation but this NGO/Humanitarian situation will never end, just sit there and consume and when empty, come back for more consumptions which is exactly what their NGO or AID wants so it can support to grow its NGO/AID companies.

We don't win, in 100 years we will be in the same cycle of consuming, going hungry, begging again becuz of 1000 elites refusing to create proper rule of law-instruments-enforcement becuz they fear it will end their corruption.

Foreign investment will skyrocket post debt relief and the rule of law returning. Forget the Arabs and Turks, there’ll be significant investment flow from the West. IMF predicts 2028 for this. Where we’ll finally see 4%+ growth mostly due to investment environment improving.

I personally think Somalia should become a strong military available to use for the Saudis and smaller gulf Arabs. We will have significant population growth and they need people and a strong allied nation with an army for their protection. We should also send hundreds of thousands to these countries.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@bidenkulaha the link between infrastructure and market development is strongly supported theoritically and practically(poor countries all share common infrastructure issue). Theoritically it's sound. When u build a road, ppl build homes/businesses plus provides transport access between markets, when u build airports/ports ppl and business can transport plus it provides access corridors in air and sea, if u take it out, their isolated from each other and the world.

Then all thats need cheap energy or big equipment will not be able to operate and prices become so high no business will invest, plus it's a danger 4 hospitals with power outages. It effects buinesses and schools productivity the power outages. Then the stomach infrastructure clean water/farming is essential to humans or they will die or be malnourished to even work, it's just as essential as energy is to manufacturing.

Then schooling if the ppl are dumb and lack any marketable skill u won't employ them, plus health if the ppl r dying early or disease is rampant mass emplyoyment isn't possible leading to small few healthy only working.

So nation building loaners know this and won't allow any of their investment that doesn't go towards physical/social infrastructure as that will lead to market ready conditions for investors which then increases govt revenues which then makes their loan repayment obligations more realistic. The link between hard and soft infrastructure is very sound on paper and theory and also in practical observation on why poor countries are poor.

They dont have market ready condition poor countries such as physical-social infrastructure which then all goes back to poor governance, rule of law, reliable systems which then goes back to a dishonest culture that allows corrupt political elites who want their commision-bonus. Elites dont drop from the sky, they come from the ppl and know they can get away with their crap becuz somali wa dhaqan xun mana dhicin kacdoon dhaqameed.

So we r stuck where we r due to ourselves not anyone else foreign, our horrible culture is responsible that allows for elites to be corrupt, we call them 'farid wax dhacay' while they remain in 3rd world sewages forget being MARKET READY for jobs

 

[DR OSMAN]

@bidenkulaha even @GemState knows when corruption is one-off or minimal that is an individual isssue, but when it's systemic no matter who leads, then it's cultural decay becuz they don't come from the sky, they come from within the ppl and there hasn't been a cultural revolution at a social level where bad ppl are named/shamed not rewarded and promoted and punished and isolated from mosques and social settings and from clans, like we do with un-armed majority ppl.

The un-armed majority(madhiban, tumaal, bantu) it's them who we need to model ourselves around and promote and re-direct how we treat them at a social level to the scum within our groups. Till I see Somalis treating the bad ppl among it's clan like they do to unarmed majority, That's a cultural revolution, kacdoon dhaqameed dhab ah weeye which hasn't happened and untill it does my future predictions of somalia becoming first world is minimal, yes they may develop from 4th too 3rd world but thats it.

Rule of law, good governance is unachievable on top of a social decay rot, they will all just corrupt any systems you put in place. It has to happen at a social level, mana arki any social movements or think-tank addressing the social rot. I would sign up as a member of this but their is nothing out there addressing this.

A govt authority plus a independent organisation with a website and facebook page who lists name/shame any individual who does corruption or any social crimes, spread it to mosques to ban them, spread it to all clans to treat them like we do 'midg0s', on top of their prison punishment.

Wallahi markasi rajo wayn baa ii soo noqon laha and i would turn to af-jannah not af-naareed overnite as I tell any western nation Somalia is ready, Somaalia is the next great african hope is how I wud market it to the world.

 

[Bari🐍]

The IMF/World Bank loans do they have their bank reserves or are they linked to western countries who use them as check n balance or policy advise and is similar to NGO who don't own the money and only western charities and aid use them as their donation or aid stream. Or do they have their own separate reserves?

The money is contributed by a bunch of different countries with most of it being from the western bloc. The best friend of many nations is China because in their eyes their loans have no strings attached and are easier to attain. These countries are not always willing to adhere to IMF reforms.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@bidenkulaha your hope is guided by ur desires not your rationality, I also want Somalia to become no 1 but that's my feelings not my rationality. Some ppl feel like their millionaires also but thru rationality their bank balance shows other wise. That's what I class your optismitic outlook on.

Untill a social revolution takes place and the way we treat the un-armed majority(bantu, tumaal, madhiban) and re-direct that social isolation, name/shame at a social level to all criminals whether petty crimes or severe crimes, then I don't find much optimism for Somalia future other then mere feelings.

My rationality says any system, good governaance, or rule of law established will rot due to the social rot and there isn't a govt authority monitoring this, publishing criminals and their clans so it can lead to name-shame and social isolation and stigma like we do to the un-armed majority.

Somalia success isn't comin thru a messiah or good leader or any single individuaal, a good leader with social rot below him won't change anything. Plus I don't see a think-tank like heritage or anything similar focused on cultural revolution to treat the bad among us with the same social stigmaa we apply to un-armed majority.