Do you think Siad barre during his last final years of life 1991-1995, heard about somaliland seceding Somalia, or was he too sick or old to know?

[DR OSMAN]

@anon2 your tanasul is admirable and @Prince of HS message of usc perfection only discredits him as we can put it to neutral observers can anyone be 'perfect' and the world will say no and then point to prince his going against agreed logic, so that will put to question his whole clan narrative as false.

@Gadhwayne if siyad stole gold, why did maslax ask my father for $100 dollars in nairobi back in the early 2000s? surely siyad wud pass his gold onto them, they were dead broke and wadanis is a fact. No darod looted shit not even from non darods or within darods. Plus anon conflicts r 'assessed' by 'root causes' not when it's 'switched dimension'. Darods didnt start clan militias but responded to USC who created warlordism and started genocding darod civilians(un armed), no darod genocided any hawiye civilian and only fought their 'thuggish' warlords in 'pure defence' not even 'offence war. No darod post 91 entered any hag or snm territory, that is a fact and if they deny it, then they need to present 'date/events', darod adopted nothing but 'defence' posture against these wild hordes unleashed by menguistu while wadani 'yey' was arrested cuz he had plan n system in place 4 somalia. They simply had no post siyad govt model is a fact by what we observed after siyad left. They served the interest o menguistu only that's why he didn't arrest them bro, they were the true daba dhilifs.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne no Isaaq or Hawiye want to 'discuss' 91. Not a damn single one showing reconciliation is impossible. Wixi halka ka dhacay lama jeedno anagu 'xuman' lakin in wax laga 'barto' si aysan uu dhicin mar dambe.

We r prepared to discuss 88 with you guys any day of the week and anywhere u want. Siyad was a 'state', u were the clan thugs who self-elected n were sent by menguistu to over-ride the 'system' in place, siyad took firm action on snm becuz they fought from civilian quarters like other rebels/terrorist do till today.

Ask abi ahmed is he wrong for decimating tigray or america for decimating confederate rebels? every leader n state has the right to decimate any internal rebellion or any 'self elected' thugs over-riding the state or else why aren't those states held accountable but siyad? is it siyad must operate by one rule and the rest of the world another rule?

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne I watched an 'egal' speech saying 'wixi hamar ka dhacayo wax laga naxo'. He was right. Shacab guryahooda iska joggo oo aan cidina la dagaalmaynin, they were not helping siyad, they were sitting in their homes in lagu xasuuqo oo guyahooda lagu 'aaso', kadibna hantigoodaa illa manta la haysto oo hawiye kids lagu soo koriyo haramtasi iyo ninki laha uu gurigisa lagu 'aaso' wax macqul ma aha.

It was only dhulos-marehan in the army no-one else fighting u irir guys on 'two fronts', their civilians weren't even involved either but the 'state security' was left with those 'two clans' only as ogaden broke off, ssdf dismantled after 'yey' was arrested becuz 'yey' demanded all rebel groups agree to post somalia model and interim period of military rule untill the state structure(constitution) and the govt model is changed to a 'democracy' and power sharing is discused, districts n parliament, legal architectures, and elections r set up. U can't do all 'that' immediately after a govt is replaced, that's why an 'interim military rule' is needed to keep the statae stable.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne my 'ina adeer n his 7 kids' were buried in hargeisa by SNM, he was a mere civilian, just like u guys r doing now to darod civilians, u did the same thing to all darods in the north and even samaroon but not at the same 'scale' as 91 and HAG did. But what HAG did to itself was even worse '4 month war' day/night killing their best 'ppl' who if alive today we could've negiotated with as they do have 'wadanis' now the 'garbage no namers n moryans left' only making somalia issue unresolvable. I mean 'xaad' of murusade elder isku sheeg was a damn 'barber' thats the quality were dealing with today.

Im not saying the scale of 91 n darod genocide is the same as the hawiye, I would never say that @Prince of HS becuz as u said most darods 'fled', I read an article of 700 mj/warsangeli fleeing n boat to kenya and the boat capsized, while dhulos n marehan soldiers only remained fighting to keep the 'state' alive from menguistu jambal, even they didnt fight for the 'motives of clan genocide' like HAG but to keep the 'state alive' from collapse. Qaran bay uu dagalameen nimanku in la yirahdo 'qabiil' waa totally absolute falsehood.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@anon2 the HAGS n Isaaq think were pissed over a couple of weeks of genocide on darod civilians while ignoring 4 month genocide on hag by hag, we are reasonable, we know reconciliation must start with HAGS inside themselves ileen waxay iyagu isku gaysteen ayaa ka daran ti darod loo geystay.

Plus darods r more mad about the absence of 'govt' and 'spoilers' from the south from reconstruction period(2000 onwards) as we don't want to die before seeing somalia a proud nation among the world, and we hold fears as this conflict drags, the new generation(gen y n mellenials) especially the locals will not remember 'nation' or 'dawladnimo' plus the diaspora(will disconnect also) this will mean 'national extinction' for all of us. Infact gen y-mellenial in diaspora are only generation left who still hear stories from Gen X-Baby boomers, but once were gone, u can bury 'somalia' for good, it's impossible they will not go extinct as our kids or mellenial kids will be so 'far' away from knowing somalia, they will just be like jamaicans n african americans who forgot their roots and culture and therefore will not assist that nation.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Im calculating man @anon2 baby boomers r retiring into 'isim' roles to save their clan and organize it for survival as that's what they can 'control', Gen X r in power these r students under baby boomers, their connected like gen y-mellenials are. They need to work like a 'team' handing down 'wisdom' baby boomers to gen x and gen y(warlord era) needs to do the same to mellenials(islamist era), we can't keep 'wasting' generational time that is ticking.

We got 80 years before each generation dies and 25 years when new generation emerges. Gen X(80 years), Gen Y(80 years), Mellenials(80 years). That's around 240 years before all those generation die out, yes maybe one or small fraction may 'past' that limit in each generation like we see now some still alive from 'syl' era, but that window will get smaller, the smaller that generational window gets we are screwed as we can't 'tap' into it about the past, this will be the same for every generation, we must make 'use' of our time we don't have time for 'singing songs and nationalism'

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

You're saying rebels never killed civilians I know an oday that lost 3 of his siblings, own up to xasuuqs. Yes Daroods civilians were innocent.


Horta why is it bad for us to say that we were xasuuqed which is facts.

Darood casualties in Mogadishu during Fatxul Banadir was not more than 100-200 at very least.
That cant be called genocide or massacre loool
Isaaqs were butchered tho, nevertless that is not a legitimate excuse to secede!

 

[DR OSMAN]

@anon2 we got 250 years before we tap into extinction from Gen Y-X-Mellenial generation life times, their kids will be just like african americans who do not know their roots let alone how to assist that nation

 

[DR OSMAN]

Darood casualties in Mogadishu during Fatxul Banadir was not more than 100-200 at very least.
That cant be called genocide or massacre loool
Isaaqs were butchered tho, nevertless that is not a legitimate excuse to secede!

Where is this 'butchery' u listening to 'woke somali narrative' 'boooo siyad, maskin isaaq' narrative, war harshin bay uu carareen kuligood to isaaq zone of dds, that's why when they dig up these 'graves' it's only a 'few bones' and even those I doubt are Isaaq but most likely darods who were civilians n killed there.

 

[anon2]

@DR OSMAN people like @Gadhwayne always have to bring up and discredit Siyaad because the system his clan are oppress under are way worse than they were in the 80s. For example why was Siyaad Barre son work at an airport in Candana? Why are his daughters n the UK living off welfare? If Siyaad took all those gold reserves wouldn't he have funded MX in Gedo and Daroods to fight back and take the capital? Why was he living in a small apartment in Nigeria?

People like Gadhwayne need to wake up. You can lie and lie and lie but it won't change history. It wasn't Siyaad who destroyed all your factories in Burco or shut down the livestock exports or started killing thousands of your own people for being "unionists". It was your fellow Issaq "SNM" who did as soon as the SNA was disbanded.

To this day this is what SNM fighters regret what they did, they admit they had no plan. They were just told "fight for your tol" and they did it. Many of them regret it and if you talk to 1 on 1 they will tell you. Many with tears in their eyes.

 

[anon2]

@DR OSMAN we have factual data on our side. Cold hard facts. They need to admit that 30+ years have been wasted. Look at countries like Singapore, China, South Korea etc achieved in 30 years? Look at what even Siyaad achieved under his gov in his first 5 years? He was able to create one of the strongest armies in Africa, build many factories, build a true nation of out thin air with a written language, culture and repetition that was known worldwide. Data shows we were on our way to complete food self sufficiency and export economy by the late 80s. Just imagine that, a SSA country that exports more than it imports is unheard of.

We don't have a "real" government whether FGS or FMS, we wasted too much time because these sheep are being herded by bitter old men. The diaspora must have a "need" to move back to Somalia. Someone should build a "charter" city for Diaspora, it would only cost around 1 billion USD to build. If we can attract all the talented people and build a city that requires merit based immigration for Somali Diaspora regardless of their "tol" we can slowly take over the entire country. Somalis are not individualists, if they see something that works they will fall in line. A modern city built from scratch with 100K-200K Somalis for everywhere would be an ideal start. Eventually within 50-60 years the whole nation will fall under our fold.

 

[Ximan iyo Xadeed]

Darood casualties in Mogadishu during Fatxul Banadir was not more than 100-200 at very least.
That cant be called genocide or massacre loool
Isaaqs were butchered tho, nevertless that is not a legitimate excuse to secede!

This is hypocrisy

 

[Gadhwayne]

why are you lying?

You have no shame but I can't except anything no less from a 2nd class citizen of Somali Englandia. Siyaad didn't destroy a single thing when he left Xamar. The USC started killing everyone and stealing peoples property the second they went into the city. They melted down infrastructure and several prominent nomads from Galmudug became overnight "millionaires". They melted down street lights and pipes from the sewer systems. No one "instigated" anything against the USC and no one told them start killing OGs then move on to killing all non-HAG citizens of Xamar. Right before Siyaad "fled" he offered the interim presidency to Umar Arteh Ghalib (an Issaq) but the USC stopped it from happening and all hell broke loose. This how you know they had no plan and were a group, just like the SNM who were funded by Mengistu

There was a still a police force and active military when Siyaad left. state institutions were still in tact. You are obsessed with Siyaad because you know he he ran a better government than your "JSL" ever well, hence why you still use the infrastructure he built for you. Your people especially were better off under Siyaad as Burco was one of the richest city in the Somali Republic during his reign. Your fellow "SNM" destroy all the factories Siyaad built for your in Burco. The fact that a lot of your "SNM" fighters live in regret for what they fought for is telling.



I guess you are so mentality buck-broken you have to try your best to make up lies instead of critiquing the actual issues. Go free your people and try to achieve something better than Siyaad did and built because we know these last 32+ years you haven't done anything except make a handful of individual richer.

There was no government left in Muqdisho when he left and on top of that he cried tollaahayeet to get help from his confederation who were minorities in Muqdisho against the USC and Muqdisho had already been suffering from rampant street crime for the last several years of Afweyne regime. These unplanned clashes are percieved as clan cleansing but if anyone is going to be blamed for these clashes and the lack of law and order then blame the guy who effectively disbanded the entire government i.e. blame Afweyne stealing even the nation's gold reserves while police failed to control rampant street crimes that may or may not have disproportionately affected minorities like Afweyne's confederation of clans against the USC/Samaale confederation who were the supermajority not just in Soomaliweyn but especially in Muqdisho

lies and fake darood propaganda. no darood civilan was targeted by USC. They just left the city before the USC milita came. Its funny how fake wadanis only criticise hawiye group/militas but never the darood ones. Remeber the saying it takes two to tango? Also are you going to blame hawiye for kismaayo and jl being a shithole as well?

The Jabartis did suffer but Afweyne incited them against USC even though the USC was part of a multi clan alliance of Isaaq, Jabarti, and Samaale/Irir groups SPM/SNM/SSNM and even reassembled SSDF. Beesha USC have to be proud of USC work but dont deny Jabarti suffering mostly caused by Afweyne

@Gadhwayne no Isaaq or Hawiye want to 'discuss' 91. Not a damn single one showing reconciliation is impossible. Wixi halka ka dhacay lama jeedno anagu 'xuman' lakin in wax laga 'barto' si aysan uu dhicin mar dambe.

We r prepared to discuss 88 with you guys any day of the week and anywhere u want. Siyad was a 'state', u were the clan thugs who self-elected n were sent by menguistu to over-ride the 'system' in place, siyad took firm action on snm becuz they fought from civilian quarters like other rebels/terrorist do till today.

Ask abi ahmed is he wrong for decimating tigray or america for decimating confederate rebels? every leader n state has the right to decimate any internal rebellion or any 'self elected' thugs over-riding the state or else why aren't those states held accountable but siyad? is it siyad must operate by one rule and the rest of the world another rule?

We dont need to talk to you about Afwyne's crimes against humanity. It was Afweyne's fault and you dont need to feel guilty unless you defend Afweyne as youre doing now

@Gadhwayne I watched an 'egal' speech saying 'wixi hamar ka dhacayo wax laga naxo'. He was right. Shacab guryahooda iska joggo oo aan cidina la dagaalmaynin, they were not helping siyad, they were sitting in their homes in lagu xasuuqo oo guyahooda lagu 'aaso', kadibna hantigoodaa illa manta la haysto oo hawiye kids lagu soo koriyo haramtasi iyo ninki laha uu gurigisa lagu 'aaso' wax macqul ma aha.

It was only dhulos-marehan in the army no-one else fighting u irir guys on 'two fronts', their civilians weren't even involved either but the 'state security' was left with those 'two clans' only as ogaden broke off, ssdf dismantled after 'yey' was arrested becuz 'yey' demanded all rebel groups agree to post somalia model and interim period of military rule untill the state structure(constitution) and the govt model is changed to a 'democracy' and power sharing is discused, districts n parliament, legal architectures, and elections r set up. U can't do all 'that' immediately after a govt is replaced, that's why an 'interim military rule' is needed to keep the statae stable.

Cigaad was a Machiavellian politician who did not understand the righteous struggle of USC or even SNM as he was a very late comer to the liberation struggle

@DR OSMAN we have factual data on our side. Cold hard facts. They need to admit that 30+ years have been wasted. Look at countries like Singapore, China, South Korea etc achieved in 30 years? Look at what even Siyaad achieved under his gov in his first 5 years? He was able to create one of the strongest armies in Africa, build many factories, build a true nation of out thin air with a written language, culture and repetition that was known worldwide.

Afweyne's "early achievements" were not his at all for example the Chinese built road was preplanned during the Mafiosi republic era of the 1960s and the military build up was USSR building up their ally's military Somali National Army this could have happened with the other coup leaders.

Data shows we were on our way to complete food self sufficiency and export economy by the late 80s. Just imagine that, a SSA country that exports more than it imports is unheard of.

This is where booliqaranism can be blamed clan socialism is bad econmic policy it tends to cause war and decrease productivity even youre a clannist and/or you think socialism is a good economic policy you have to understand that booliqaranism creates chaos, war, and blowback for your clan/confederation

We don't have a "real" government whether FGS or FMS, we wasted too much time because these sheep are being herded by bitter old men. The diaspora must have a "need" to move back to Somalia. Someone should build a "charter" city for Diaspora, it would only cost around 1 billion USD to build. If we can attract all the talented people and build a city that requires merit based immigration for Somali Diaspora regardless of their "tol" we can slowly take over the entire country. Somalis are not individualists, if they see something that works they will fall in line. A modern city built from scratch with 100K-200K Somalis for everywhere would be an ideal start. Eventually within 50-60 years the whole nation will fall under our fold.

Why restart when Muqdisho is the national capital of Somalia the territory with the Italian colonial name and Somaliland? Just accept your status as a minority in Muqdisho and let Muqdisho be the capital and Hargeisa is the 2nd capitol

 

[World]

@DR OSMAN people like @Gadhwayne always have to bring up and discredit Siyaad because the system his clan are oppress under are way worse than they were in the 80s. For example why was Siyaad Barre son work at an airport in Candana? Why are his daughters n the UK living off welfare? If Siyaad took all those gold reserves wouldn't he have funded MX in Gedo and Daroods to fight back and take the capital? Why was he living in a small apartment in Nigeria?

People like Gadhwayne need to wake up. You can lie and lie and lie but it won't change history. It wasn't Siyaad who destroyed all your factories in Burco or shut down the livestock exports or started killing thousands of your own people for being "unionists". It was your fellow Issaq "SNM" who did as soon as the SNA was disbanded.

To this day this is what SNM fighters regret what they did, they admit they had no plan. They were just told "fight for your tol" and they did it. Many of them regret it and if you talk to 1 on 1 they will tell you. Many with tears in their eyes.

Siad Barre’s regime can be accused of the following:

-Killing of innocent people
-Exploitation of tribalism during it’s last years to maintain power

But the accusations of corruption etc are baseless in my opinion.

 

[Hilmaam]

Somalia republic was not homegrown and was built on foundation of colonialism and was combination of teaching and institutions from Italians and English. Barre I give him credit for securing bloodless coup and guiding country successfully for 10 plus years. I don’t know if it was his popularity or dislike for sharmake that allowed it. What I do know for sure is he left country in way worse shape than he inherited and for that he is failure

Somaliland seceding movement started 1 year after unification . They had immediate regret and most Isaaq regions voted no on union constitution. Darood and Samaroon only voted yes in somaliland. Their was way more yes votes in south and somalilnd was suspicious of numbers. They wanted out since day 1 and doubt any president or siad would be surprised

http://www.somalilandlaw.com/The_1961_Referendum_Table_1.pdf

 

[Burqad]

Siad Barre’s regime can be accused of the following:

-Killing of innocent people
-Exploitation of tribalism during it’s last years to maintain power

But the accusations of corruption etc are baseless in my opinion.

He wasn’t personally corrupt but a lot of the people who surrounded him were.