Do you have any Civil War stories?

Gambar

VIP
Let's see how consistent you're in your outrage against @Xooshdheere and his military family. The man you hail as a hero, Muuse Biixi, was also part of the SNA. I know you will say that Biixi left the SNA to join SNM in mid 1980s. But will you also condemn him for the attrocities committed by the armed forces in the 1970s? Better yet Siilanyo was a minister in the Kacaan in 1978 when the mudug crackdown took place. Show us the same outrage you showed the father of xooshdheere.
It’s interesting that this point of the kacaan is made, but the interisaaq wars after the full scale civil war which was really brutal is never made.

Isaaqs are not fundamentally different to any of the other clans, it all just comes down to politics. How much each clans plays up what happened to them is directly proportional to how far they would like to be removed from being ruled from Xamar. Hawiyes are centralists, since Xamar is a predominantly Hawiye city, so a victim-hood narrative and a continual re-hashing of what the kacaan did to them wouldn't serve them. Daaroods are federalists and would like to keep their distance from Xamar politically speaking, which is why they occasionally bring up the 'brutality of the red-eyed Hutu hordes' during the civil war. Isaaqs are separatists, so they take the Daarood approach to an extreme and choose to vilify enemy clans, and even non-enemy clans such as the Hawiye, and play the victim, since this creation of the 'other' is what they use to justify secession.
Cadcad talk about it as well because they lost a lot too. If you are ever in the west end and go to their macmacaan shops and restaurants, get them started on it. They are really comedic and light hearted when they recount their tales.
 
Cadcad talk about it as well because they lost a lot too. If you are ever in the west end and go to their macmacaan shops and restaurants, get them started on it. They are really comedic and light hearted when they recount their tales.
Cadcads are politically irrelevant, so I didn't include them in my analysis.
 
Isaaqs are not fundamentally different to any of the other clans, it all just comes down to politics. How much each clans plays up what happened to them is directly proportional to how far they would like to be removed from being ruled from Xamar. Hawiyes are centralists, since Xamar is a predominantly Hawiye city, so a victim-hood narrative and a continual re-hashing of what the kacaan did to them wouldn't serve them. Daaroods are federalists and would like to keep their distance from Xamar politically speaking, which is why they occasionally bring up the 'brutality of the red-eyed Hutu hordes' during the civil war. Isaaqs are separatists, so they take the Daarood approach to an extreme and choose to vilify enemy clans, and even non-enemy clans such as the Hawiye, and play the victim, since this creation of the 'other' is what they use to justify secession.
Very well written and insightful :qri8gs7::qri8gs7:
 
Let's see how consistent you're in your outrage against @Xooshdheere and his military family. The man you hail as a hero, Muuse Biixi, was also part of the SNA. I know you will say that Biixi left the SNA to join SNM in mid 1980s. But will you also condemn him for the attrocities committed by the armed forces in the 1970s? Better yet Siilanyo was a minister in the Kacaan in 1978 when the mudug crackdown took place. Show us the same outrage you showed the father of xooshdheere.
It's not the same. Silanyo left even earlier than Biixi btw, he was a minister of commerce; finance and economics was his turf WHEN the country was united. It's not the same as a "high ranking military officer" around the time depraved injustes were carried out, against opposing and various clans, as evidenced by ppl's stories in this very thread. A random minister can't just authorise dropping bombs but a military offical can. I'm no politician or history expert but simply giving my point of view. To answer your question, Silanyo and Bihi defected to defend their people once the kacaans harrowing intentions became clear. That is not something I am against now or ever will be. Just like one of my family members was part of the Somali government in the 70s and left because of what was happening. Try and find such photos agreeably from these kinds of people, who hated what had transpired :manny:

Working for the government doesn’t mean they took part in deplorable acts, but I see where you are coming from.

What rubbed me the wrong way were comments @xisaabiye ’s comments. Did they rub you the wrong way?


I don’t know if the Raxanweyne were massacred during the kacaan, but they were during the civil war and formed the RRA.
Not really to be honest for the most part I agree with him.Which points specifically do you have a problem with?
 
Isaaqs are not fundamentally different to any of the other clans, it all just comes down to politics. How much each clans plays up what happened to them is directly proportional to how far they would like to be removed from being ruled from Xamar. Hawiyes are naturally centralists since Xamar is a predominantly Hawiye city, so a victim-hood narrative and a continual re-hashing of what the kacaan did to them wouldn't serve them, and could possibly even cost them the capital. Daaroods are federalists and would like to keep their distance from Xamar politically speaking, which is why they occasionally bring up the 'brutality of the red-eyed Hutu hordes' during the civil war. Isaaqs are separatists, so they take the Daarood approach to an extreme and choose to vilify enemy clans, and even non-enemy clans such as the Hawiye, and play the victim, since this creation of the 'other' is what they use to justify secession. Without these approaches each clan would find it more difficult to achieve their respective political objectives.



Bingo. It is politicized narratives.
 

Abdalla

Medical specialist in diagnosing Majeerteentitis
Prof.Dr.Eng.
VIP
Isaaqs are not fundamentally different to any of the other clans, it all just comes down to politics. How much each clans plays up what happened to them is directly proportional to how far they would like to be removed from being ruled from Xamar. Hawiyes are naturally centralists since Xamar is a predominantly Hawiye city, so a victim-hood narrative and a continual re-hashing of what the kacaan did to them wouldn't serve them, and could possibly even cost them the capital. Daaroods are federalists and would like to keep their distance from Xamar politically speaking, which is why they occasionally bring up the 'brutality of the red-eyed Hutu hordes' during the civil war. Isaaqs are separatists, so they take the Daarood approach to an extreme and choose to vilify enemy clans, and even non-enemy clans such as the Hawiye, and play the victim, since this creation of the 'other' is what they use to justify secession. Without these approaches each clan would find it more difficult to achieve their respective political objectives.
I think it has more to do with the presence of external parties. The hawiyes that lost relatives lost them predominantly during the Ali Mahdi vs Caydid era, whereas Daroods and Isaaqs lost people at the hand of rival clans. It's much easier to move on and forgive if it involved an interclan warfare. A good example is what @Gambar said about the Isaaq civil war and how, despite its brutality, isaaqs moved on.

It's not the same. Silanyo left even earlier than Biixi btw, he was a minister of commerce; finance and economics was his turf WHEN the country was united. It's not the same as a "high ranking military officer" around the time depraved injustes were carried out, against opposing and various clans, as evidenced by ppl's stories in this very thread. A random minister can't just authorise dropping bombs but a military offical can. I'm no politician or history expert but simply giving my point of view. To answer your question, Silanyo and Bihi defected to defend their people once the kacaans harrowing intentions became clear. That is not something I am against now or ever will be. Just like one of my family members was part of the Somali government in the 70s and left because of what was happening. Try and find such photos agreeably from these kinds of people, who hated what had transpired :manny:



Not really to be honest for the most part I agree with him.Which points specifically do you have a problem with?
I did not expect you to be consistent in your faux outrage. So no surprises here. Muuse Biihi was a colonel when the Mudug crackdown took place but you don't hold him accountable, however you hold the father of @Xooshdheere accountable for the 1988 for the sole reason that he was a military man. Just remember that the blood of your clansmen is not worth more than the blood of others.
 

Gambar

VIP
It's not the same. Silanyo left even earlier than Biixi btw, he was a minister of commerce; finance and economics was his turf WHEN the country was united. It's not the same as a "high ranking military officer" around the time depraved injustes were carried out, against opposing and various clans, as evidenced by ppl's stories in this very thread. A random minister can't just authorise dropping bombs but a military offical can. I'm no politician or history expert but simply giving my point of view. To answer your question, Silanyo and Bihi defected to defend their people once the kacaans harrowing intentions became clear. That is not something I am against now or ever will be. Just like one of my family members was part of the Somali government in the 70s and left because of what was happening. Try and find such photos agreeably from these kinds of people, who hated what had transpired :manny:



Not really to be honest for the most part I agree with him.Which points specifically do you have a problem with?
The fact that he said that the full scale civil war in Xamar was subclan fighting between Hawiye and Darood. That’s why some folks can’t sympathize with landers.

Mogadishu was the most important city in Somalia and continues to be. Its damage and destruction meant that the country itself would be damaged. Hargeisa wasn’t on that level that’s why when it was destroyed, life went on as usual.

My family that lived in Xamar during that time called the Isaaq who came from Hargeisa “xabadi keentay” to which they replied “xabadi sugtay” and they turned out to be right. :manny:AUN.

Seems 30 years on Somalis are fighting their own civil war in Toronto.
 

Xooshdheere

how do i use this
VIP
I think it has more to do with the presence of external parties. The hawiyes that lost relatives lost them predominantly during the Ali Mahdi vs Caydid era, whereas Daroods and Isaaqs lost people at the hand of rival clans. It's much easier to move on and forgive if it involved an interclan warfare. A good example is what @Gambar said about the Isaaq civil war and how, despite its brutality, isaaqs moved on.



I did not expect you to be consistent in your faux outrage. So no surprises here. Muuse Biihi was a colonel when the Mudug crackdown took place but you don't hold him accountable, however you hold the father of @Xooshdheere accountable for the 1988 for the sole reason that he was a military man. Just remember that the blood of your clansmen is not worth more than the blood of others.
no my father wasnt a military man, my uncles and awoowe was :icon lol: he was an accountant
 
@Shanshiyo1234 I'll share it with you as you asked. I didn't see your comment earlier oddly.

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I have seen this discussion before. I was anticipating a shit show where everyone questions whether some of these events even occurred, or fights about whether the sharing of these stories are beneficial.I'm pleasantly surprised. It turned out better than I had expected.
Thanks you for sharing your post.
 

Arma

GRAND Wizard of MJ SIXIR
VIP
Alhamdulillah, me and my family were fortunate enough not to be targeted during the civil war. I was born in '91, in Kismayo. My family made it out of the city, before OGs descended on the town, and began a campaign of slaughter against MJs.
We moved to Kenya, and lived there until mid '96, when my dad moved us to the UK.

Alhamdulillah, of my family members who remained in the city, refusing to leave there hometown, they were all safe and sound, not a single one of them were killed or harmed, by OG/HAG militias. But, from what i heard, other MJ families were not, too fortunate.
 
The fact that he said that the full scale civil war in Xamar was subclan fighting between Hawiye and Darood. That’s why some folks can’t sympathize with landers.

Mogadishu was the most important city in Somalia and continues to be. Its damage and destruction meant that the country itself would be damaged. Hargeisa wasn’t on that level that’s why when it was destroyed, life went on as usual.

My family that lived in Xamar during that time called the Isaaq who came from Hargeisa “xabadi keentay” to which they replied “xabadi sugtay” and they turned out to be right. :manny:AUN.

Seems 30 years on Somalis are fighting their own civil war in Toronto.
I agree at that point it was pretty much full-scale war. However, hawiye and darood turned against each other, long existing clan animosities added fuel to that fire. It's different in the North because it was being attacked from all sides, at the go-ahead and with the resources of the government. I don't need or seek sympathy and I think landers just want for this history to not be brushed under the carpet. History is the best predictor of future behaviour and in it lessons should be taken.

I've heard similar from my family that worked in Xamar at the time. AUN to everyone who lost their lives.

Somalis are bringing remnants of their civil war with them wherever they go. I for, one would like to check out of that.

I did not expect you to be consistent in your faux outrage. So no surprises here. Muuse Biihi was a colonel when the Mudug crackdown took place but you don't hold him accountable, however you hold the father of @Xooshdheere accountable for the 1988 for the sole reason that he was a military man. Just remember that the blood of your clansmen is not worth more than the blood of others.
Ok, Mr upstanding, lets have your outrage against Abdulahi Yusuf? After all it could be argued he was responsible for the death of many innocent civilians with all of his schemes and plots.
 

Gambar

VIP
I agree at that point it was pretty much full-scale war. However, hawiye and darood turned against each other, long existing clan animosities added fuel to that fire. It's different in the North because it was being attacked from all sides, at the go-ahead and with the resources of the government. I don't need or seek sympathy and I think landers just want for this history to not be brushed under the carpet. History is the best predictor of future behaviour and in it lessons should be taken.

I've heard similar from my family that worked in Xamar at the time. AUN to everyone who lost their lives.

Somalis are bringing remnants of their civil war with them wherever they go. I for, one would like to check out of that.



Ok, Mr upstanding, lets have your outrage against Abdulahi Yusuf? After all it could be argued he was responsible for the death of many innocent civilians with all of his schemes and plots.
See again, that’s where you’re wrong. It became a full scale civil war because everything was concentrated in Xamar. When the USC toppled Siad Barre, that same militia targeted innocent civilians including Darood, Cadcad, Raxanweyne, and Hawiye who protected their Darood neigbours (while some turned on their Darood neighbors), etc.

Darood factions weren’t even united. Folks took up arms to protect their clans. I won’t go into detail but Darood have been fighting each other, take a look Kismayo as an example. It wasn’t Hawiye vs Darood. That is just lazy history. If Mogadishu was the city where every clan lived, then it couldn’t have simply been Darood vs Hawiye. On top of that Darood don’t have the same advantage as Isaaq being concentrated in one area.

Lander history is not being brushed under the carpet, we’ve heard a lot about it, there have been documentaries and books about it. Landers let it be known what happened to them. Other Somalis on the hand, don’t say much. I barely hear about the Hawiye who were around during Caydid vs Mahdi.

Because Somali people brush their own mental health issues under the carpet, they are passing this onto their children. Qabiil is a fact of life back home, qabiil is also a survival mechanism back home but in the west it’s definitely more qabyalad.

For example, when I am back home and someone asks me what my qabiil is I tell them. It usually ends there unless they’re the same qabiil as me (to find common ground) and they go on to ask me what town or province I’m from. I noticed that they don’t really seem as invested in rehashing history. It’s more about finding common ground. People are a lot nicer and warm.

In the west it’s a different story, where people go behind your back to find out what qabiil you are or engage in fkd. I’ve even heard of clan wars in western cities. :icon lol:z3zrULC
 

Xooshdheere

how do i use this
VIP
Alhamdulillah, me and my family were fortunate enough not to be targeted during the civil war. I was born in '91, in Kismayo. My family made it out of the city, before OGs descended on the town, and began a campaign of slaughter against MJs.
We moved to Kenya, and lived there until mid '96, when my dad moved us to the UK.

Alhamdulillah, of my family members who remained in the city, refusing to leave there hometown, they were all safe and sound, not a single one of them were killed or harmed, by OG/HAG militias. But, from what i heard, other MJ families were not, too fortunate.
You know who Mohamed Cabdi Hashi is?
 
I had an uncle killed and my dad was jailed for a year. But my mom and grandma came close to getting killed.
While the civil war was going on, there was also masscares taking place within the same clans.
HG and abgaal fought over hamar, isaaqs HY and HA/HJ fought as well as as darood over kismaayo.
When you think about what happened, isn't it too soon to expect a positive turn around, peace and all? It'll take a long time before people can forget what happen and even then, I don't think they'll.
 
My mom fought for siyaad barre before 91 and my dad did the same post 91 am 100% faqash siyaad barre also gave my family free shit:rejoice:
Fukk you trash complaining:rejoice:
 

merka

Somaliland Sovereignist
VIP
The fact that he said that the full scale civil war in Xamar was subclan fighting between Hawiye and Darood. That’s why some folks can’t sympathize with landers.

Mogadishu was the most important city in Somalia and continues to be. Its damage and destruction meant that the country itself would be damaged. Hargeisa wasn’t on that level that’s why when it was destroyed, life went on as usual.

My family that lived in Xamar during that time called the Isaaq who came from Hargeisa “xabadi keentay” to which they replied “xabadi sugtay” and they turned out to be right. :manny:AUN.

Seems 30 years on Somalis are fighting their own civil war in Toronto.
So when northern cities were being destroyed Southerners didn't give a shit until the war came to them.

Somalinimo never existed then and it doesn't exist now.
 
See again, that’s where you’re wrong. It became a full scale civil war because everything was concentrated in Xamar. When the USC toppled Siad Barre, that same militia targeted innocent civilians including Darood, Cadcad, Raxanweyne, and Hawiye who protected their Darood neigbours (while some turned on their Darood neighbors), etc.

Darood factions weren’t even united. Folks took up arms to protect their clans. I won’t go into detail but Darood have been fighting each other, take a look Kismayo as an example. It wasn’t Hawiye vs Darood. That is just lazy history. If Mogadishu was the city where every clan lived, then it couldn’t have simply been Darood vs Hawiye. On top of that Darood don’t have the same advantage as Isaaq being concentrated in one area.

Lander history is not being brushed under the carpet, we’ve heard a lot about it, there have been documentaries and books about it. Landers let it be known what happened to them. Other Somalis on the hand, don’t say much. I barely hear about the Hawiye who were around during Caydid vs Mahdi.

Because Somali people brush their own mental health issues under the carpet, they are passing this onto their children. Qabiil is a fact of life back home, qabiil is also a survival mechanism back home but in the west it’s definitely more qabyalad.

For example, when I am back home and someone asks me what my qabiil is I tell them. It usually ends there unless they’re the same qabiil as me (to find common ground) and they go on to ask me what town or province I’m from. I noticed that they don’t really seem as invested in rehashing history. It’s more about finding common ground. People are a lot nicer and warm.

In the west it’s a different story, where people go behind your back to find out what qabiil you are or engage in fkd. I’ve even heard of clan wars in western cities. :icon lol:z3zrULC

As I mentioned to @Abdalla I'm not fully informed on everything that happened. I do know that darood on darood inter-clan strife occurred. I know some sub-clans were more subjugated than others, and this was also in part due to the government wishing to keep some grip on power, that they were quickly loosing. I don't think in those times apart from a few, darood were looking out for each other, as sad as it is. There was some success in stoking the inter-clan fires.

I think it's important for history to be spoken about, and to have historical monuments and to analyse what went wrong. Because 30 odd years later, excuse my language but the countries still a shithole. I would also like to know more about caydiid and the hawiye conflict, all I really know is of destruction, it seems even the hawiye sub-clans fought each other ruthlessly.

I also experienced the same back home. Everywhere I went people were quite interested by what qabiil I was but never negatively. In fact in Hargeisa and other cities, people assumed initially I was a southerner because of the way I wore my hijaab and because I would always say 'wa meqaa' in shops. Yet nothing, nada not a second glance. I was corrected by others to say 'wa imisa' though.

On the other hand, in the west, Somalis have made qabiil a handbook to navigating life. It's shocking the lengths people go to or can know you. I've had an older Somali figure out not only my qabiil but my maternal uncle too one time, from the most obscure information. The clannism is endemic throughout the west unfortunately.

Do you think the previous generation brushed their issues under the rug? I think they were more resilient than us mentally.
 
So when northern cities were being destroyed Southerners didn't give a shit until the war came to them.

Somalinimo never existed then and it doesn't exist now.
I guess u never of the famous of the Hawiye slogan "Dalka difaac diidi mayno, isaaq ku duul dooni mayno" as a response to the regime when it began it's bombing campaign in the north. The slogan is usually said in Abgaal dialect, but I forgot how it went.
 

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