do you believe somalis originated in the north or the south?

where in somalia do you believe we originated?

  • north

    Votes: 52 66.7%
  • south

    Votes: 26 33.3%

  • Total voters
    78
T1a is all over the horn and East Africa. I find it hard to believe that it is due Semitic migrations. But if we are all making claims, I prefer to think of it as a mesopotamian haplogroup. WE WuZ ElAmITEs anD BabylOnianz!
 
T1a is all over the horn and East Africa. I find it hard to believe that it is due Semitic migrations. But if we are all making claims, I prefer to think of it as a mesopotamian haplogroup. WE WuZ ElAmITEs anD BabylOnianz!
Different strand of T1a is all over the Horn. The Dir version is Arabian.


#identitycrises #WeIzMiddleEastermAndShiet #sandniggerandproud #Jew #RealYibir

:fittytousand:
 
My theory is that they came from both directions.

I think the Dir T1a came from the Levant through Gaza, settling in the Red Sea hills 6-8 Kya and then moving south before the rise of Auxum.

V32 comes up the Nile tributaries from the Cushite lands in the Sudan, under pressure from various invaders, and crosses the southern Ethiopian highlands. The proto-Doi develop in the Dawa basin, then move into the interriverine area before moving to the Lower Shabelli where they divide into the Maay and Maxa groups. Maxa acquires camels in the 5th century and moves north, joining T1a and others to form the northern clans in the 12th-13th centuries. They then begin southern migrations to make use of the southern camel lands. The Rahanweyn develop in the Genale watershed and move into the interriverine area after the proto-Doi.
 
Last edited:

Apollo

Staff Member
Moderator
My theory is that they came from both directions.

I think the Dir T1a came from the Levant through Gaza, settling in the Red Sea hills 6-8 Kya and then moving south before the rise of Auxum.

V32 comes up the Nile tributaries from the Cushite lands in the Sudan, under pressure from various invaders, and crosses the southern Ethiopian highlands. The proto-Doi develop in the Dawa basin, then move into the interriverine area before moving to the Lower Shabelli where they divide into the Maay and Maxa groups. Maxa acquires camels in the 5th century and moves north, joining T1a and others to form the northern clans in the 12th-13th centuries. They then begin southern migrations to make use of the southern camel lands. The Rahanweyn develop in the Genale watershed and move into the interriverine area after the proto-Doi.
^ Dead wrong, as usual.

Somalis have the lowest autosomal affinity with the ancient Mota sample from Southern Ethiopia who represents the native genetics of Ethiopia. Even Amharas have more of an affinity with it than ethnic Somalis. Somalis have absolutely nothing to do with Southern Ethiopia at all. Even a quick glance at how Southern Ethiopians (including Oromos) and Somalis look like can obviously tell you there is an ethnic difference. Proto-Somalis entered Somalia via the Red Sea region. The only Ethiopian populations remotely close to Somalis are Eastern Oromos and Afars, not Southwest Ethiopians at all.

As for T1a, first of all, the Dir are not genetically distinct from other Somalis besides their paternal lineage. They are not ethnically or racially different like you are trying to make it out to be. Secondly, the Somali T clade is significantly younger and substantially less diverse than Somali E-Y18629 carriers (the Somali V32 sub-clade) which is twice its age and much older and more established in Somalia. It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE that Somali Ts preceded Somali V32 carriers, old fool. The more parsimonious explanation is simply a paternal bottleneck that took off in the Dir population and it does not represent anything ethnic (not signs of a different population).
 
^ Dead wrong, as usual.

Somalis have the lowest autosomal affinity with the ancient Mota sample from Southern Ethiopia who represents the native genetics of Ethiopia. Even Amharas have more of an affinity with it than ethnic Somalis. Somalis have absolutely nothing to do with Southern Ethiopia at all. Even a quick glance at how Southern Ethiopians (including Oromos) and Somalis look like can obviously tell you there is an ethnic difference. Proto-Somalis entered Somalia via the Red Sea region. The only Ethiopian populations remotely close to Somalis are Eastern Oromos and Afars, not Southwest Ethiopians at all.

As for T1a, first of all, the Dir are not genetically distinct from other Somalis besides their paternal lineage. They are not ethnically or racially different like you are trying to make it out to be. Secondly, the Somali T clade is significantly younger and substantially less diverse than Somali E-Y18629 carriers (the Somali V32 sub-clade) which is twice its age and much older and more established in Somalia. It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE that Somali Ts preceded Somali V32 carriers, old fool. The more parsimonious explanation is simply a paternal bottleneck that took off in the Dir population and it does not represent anything ethnic (not signs of a different population).
Busy now. Will get back to some of this later.

Don't forget the HG languages!
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Moderator
Busy now. Will get back to some of this later.

Don't forget the HG languages!
You are a clown, whatever you say will be just more garbage. :trash: Your one and only motive for this retarded theory (with no scientific evidence behind it) is to create further division between Somalis as usual.

You are a bad faith debater.
 
You are a clown, whatever you say will be just more garbage. :trash: Your one and only motive for this retarded theory (with no scientific evidence behind it) is to create further division between Somalis as usual.

You are a bad faith debater.

Have you calmed down enough to look at the evidence for a theory other than your own?



The Kushite capital kept moving up the Nile as the people moved to avoid invaders, including control from Egypt. After 590 BC it was at Meroe, which is between the Atbara and the junction of the Blue and White Niles, already well up the Nile tributaries. This movement up the tributaries increased over time as the farmland and pastorage near Meroe was exhausted and the state became less centralized and cohesive over time. Meroe was a shadow of its former self when it succumbed to the Axumite karbash in the 4th century AD. The Kushites were already up the tributaries inside Ethiopia.



Notice that all the rivers that flow out of Ethiopia to the west are tributaries of the Nile, and all rivers that flow to the east flow into Somalia. The Omo flows south into Kenya, another Cushitic stronghold.

The Hawiyya are famously known to have come down the Shabelli, arriving at Merca in the 11th century.

The proto-Doy develop in relative isolation in the Dawa drainage and soon move into the interriverine region, arriving at the Lower Shabelli in the second century AD. The Oromo, following similar routes at a later time, remained largely in Ethiopia, spreading out and picking up extraneous genetic elements.

See Christopher Ehret's maps, Appendix 1, in Ali Jimale Ahmed, The invention of Somalia, pp. 258-262. The proto-Doy becomes proto-Maay/Maxay by the 5th century, splitting into proto-Maay on the west bank of the Shabelli by the 8th century and proto-Maxay on the east.

As for the Dir T1a. They are from the Levant and spent 3-5 thousand years in the northern Sudan. Why wouldn't they be somatically similar to Cushites?
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Moderator
Bringing up recent civilizations like Kush/Meroë when talking about prehistoric haplogroups is utterly ridiculous. Most of this stuff is Neolithic or Mesolithic (pre-civilization). The proto-Cushite movements into the Horn predated the Kush empire. At best there may be a tie with the Punt civilization and proto-Somalis, but most definitely not the relatively recent Kush civilization.

Proto-Somalis did not enter through highland Ethiopia (Central/South Ethiopia). All the autosomal data suggest an entrance through the northern Horn lowlands over three thousand years ago.

As for the Southern SOMALIA (cough, *not* Ethiopia) proto-Somali ethnogenesis theory, I already agree on that.
 
Bringing up recent civilizations like Kush/Meroë when talking about prehistoric haplogroups is utterly ridiculous. Most of this stuff is Neolithic or Mesolithic (pre-civilization). The proto-Cushite movements into the Horn predated the Kush empire. At best there may be a tie with the Punt civilization and proto-Somalis, but most definitely not the relatively recent Kush civilization.

Proto-Somalis did not enter through highland Ethiopia (Central/South Ethiopia). All the autosomal data suggest an entrance through the northern Horn lowlands over three thousand years ago.

As for the Southern SOMALIA (cough, *not* Ethiopia) proto-Somali ethnogenesis theory, I already agree on that.
Good to see you coming around. I believe the rest will follow. A northern ethnogenesis would have produced Northern Cushites.
 
I believe we originated from the north and migrated to the south. Who would migrate from south to north? The south is green, has rivers and everything fertile. The North is rough, hard and a desert.
 
Proto-Somalis did not enter through highland Ethiopia (Central/South Ethiopia). All the autosomal data suggest an entrance through the northern Horn lowlands over three thousand years ago.
Links for this would be helpful.
 
If we are talking before 7th century ad I think proto somalis migrated north to south,

Before qabiliya I’m convinced that Somalis came from harlas,

I’m also convinced that some groups were also a result of back migration into the continent.
 

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