Djibouti Somaliland and DDS have the chance to topple Ethiopia

[Gantaal97]

Sxb you have missed the point.

The AU/UN etc recognise colonial drawn borders and since the Hawd was not part of pre-WWII borders then its difficult to make a case for it over the Ogaden.

Realistically speaking, both Somalia and Somaliland have a decent case for the Hawd and Ogaden equally but not one over the other.

True as Hawd was actually majority conquered and administrated by isaaq clans in mid 19th and 20th century as the area had little control from Ethiopian or British but it was part of isaaq sultanates that the British signed treaties with

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

@The Crowe I am almost certain that is incorrect.

The British conquered all of Greater Somalia in 1941 (including Ogaden and the Haud) and held onto it until the 1950s in which they gave Ogaden/Hawd to Ethiopia and Somalia to the UN.

The Hawd was not part of British Somaliland pre-1941, not to the best of my knowledge.

Feel free to correct me on this.

@Gantaal97 pretty much clarified my points, but just to summarize

1. I did not say that the Hawd was part of the British Somaliland during all of its existence. You'll notice in my previous replies that I was consistently referring to the the period prior to Somaliland becoming independent.
2. Importantly though, the British had planned for it to be part of the independent Somaliland until 1955 when due to pressure from the US, the British gave into Haile Selasie's request to give it to Ethiopia.
3. Until 1884 the Hawd was part of the Isaaq sultanate and the Adal Sultanate before that.
4. In the 50 years between 1884 and 1941 the Hawd changed hands several times between the Ethiopians, British & Italians
5. So, apart from that short timeframe, the Hawd has essentially always been part of what is Somaliland today.

 

[Periplus]

@Gantaal97 pretty much clarified my points, but just to summarize

1. I did not say that the Hawd was part of the British Somaliland during all of its existence. You'll notice in my previous replies that I was consistently referring to the the period prior to Somaliland becoming independent.
2. Importantly though, the British had planned for it to be part of the independent Somaliland until 1955 when due to pressure from the US, the British gave into Haile Selasie's request to give it to Ethiopia.
3. Until 1884 the Hawd was part of the Isaaq sultanate and the Adal Sultanate before that.
4. In the 50 years between 1884 and 1941 the Hawd changed hands several times between the Ethiopians, British & Italians
5. So, apart from that short timeframe, the Hawd has essentially always been part of what is Somaliland today.

I am not to trying to argue laakin I am not disagreeing on the fact that there is a significant relationship between the Hawd and SL but that it is very difficult to argue.

Since colonisation, it has been paired with the Ogaden and was never an established part of either the Italian or British colonies. Therefore, it is difficult to argue for only the Hawd. However, due to the agreements between the British and Ethiopia, which stipulated relative autonomy for the region, there is an argument for the entirety of DDS incl the Hawd because of Selassie's breach of the agreement.

 

[Awbarkhadle]

I am not to trying to argue laakin I am not disagreeing on the fact that there is a significant relationship between the Hawd and SL but that it is very difficult to argue.

Since colonisation, it has been paired with the Ogaden and was never an established part of either the Italian or British colonies. Therefore, it is difficult to argue for only the Hawd. However, due to the agreements between the British and Ethiopia, which stipulated relative autonomy for the region, there is an argument for the entirety of DDS incl the Hawd because of Selassie's breach of the agreement.

If you have leverage you can do anything even change post Independence borders. Hawd and reserve area where part of somaliland through treaties between the British and Tribal elders. In 1887 it was secretly signed off to Ethiopia for help against the Mahdists in Sudan. This was against international law and there is a parliament sessions which the British discussed the possibility of Somaliland going to ICJ post independence.

I said all that to say this. There are 4 Somali men Bixi Cagjar IOG and Ahmed Shide. If they got balls they can change the map of east Africa.

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

I am not to trying to argue laakin I am not disagreeing on the fact that there is a significant relationship between the Hawd and SL but that it is very difficult to argue.

Since colonisation, it has been paired with the Ogaden and was never an established part of either the Italian or British colonies. Therefore, it is difficult to argue for only the Hawd. However, due to the agreements between the British and Ethiopia, which stipulated relative autonomy for the region, there is an argument for the entirety of DDS incl the Hawd because of Selassie's breach of the agreement.

The point is not that there was a "relationship" between SL and Hawd - the point is that apart from a short 50 year period, Hawd was always a part of what is Somaliland today.

 

[Periplus]

If you have leverage you can do anything even change post Independence borders. Hawd and reserve area where part of somaliland through treaties between the British and Tribal elders. In 1887 it was secretly signed off to Ethiopia for help against the Mahdists in Sudan. This was against international law and there is a parliament sessions which the British discussed the possibility of Somaliland going to ICJ post independence.

I said all that to say this. There are 4 Somali men Bixi Cagjar IOG and Ahmed Shide. If they got balls they can change the map of east Africa.

The point is not that there was a "relationship" between SL and Hawd - the point is that apart from a short 50 year period, Hawd was always a part of what is Somaliland today.

I am not disagreeing with you, the Hawd was part of Somaliland.

But it cannot be argued to the IC as pre-colonial borders are rarely if ever recognised in Africa due to lack of modern nation-states that existed in the continent.

From the bottom of my heart, I would rather Somaliland regain the Hawd than it remain in Ethiopia. I want my people to govern themselves rather than by somebody else.

 

[Awbarkhadle]

I am not disagreeing with you, the Hawd was part of Somaliland.

But it cannot be argued to the IC as pre-colonial borders are rarely if ever recognised in Africa due to lack of modern nation-states that existed in the continent.

From the bottom of my heart, I would rather Somaliland regain the Hawd than it remain in Ethiopia. I want my people to govern themselves rather than by somebody else.

It’s the selfish qabyalad move. That is the move that Siad Barre took when he created IGAD with mengistu and got Goldogob Balanbale and caabudwaaq in return which is on the Ethiopian side of the map. They have the opportunity for Somaliweyn.

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

I am not disagreeing with you, the Hawd was part of Somaliland.

But it cannot be argued to the IC as pre-colonial borders are rarely if ever recognised in Africa due to lack of modern nation-states that existed in the continent.

From the bottom of my heart, I would rather Somaliland regain the Hawd than it remain in Ethiopia. I want my people to govern themselves rather than by somebody else.

No doubt, we all want all Somali lands to be governed by Somalis rather than the Ethiopians, or anyone else for that matter..

I do believe that it can easily be argued to the IC that the Hawd was part of British Somaliland even just 5 years prior to Somaliland's independence. It belonged to the British Somaliland protectorate and was governed from Hargeisa.