Djibouti PM and some MPs are from Laas Qorey
- Thread starter Hemaal
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Why you lie though. British didn't have administration east of Somaliland. Like really Italian invasion send you to Sheikh, Burco, Berbera. You lost Caynabo in tribal wars, get over it.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
What war? You mean to tell me that after 1/3rd of the population in British Somaliland died, people were fighting over land?
No, after the movement was defeated, the British expelled the clans of Caynabo into Hawdka and the British moved friendly tribes into the regions. It's sad, but that's your history.
Let me be perfectly clear so you can understand me. I want Awdal to prosper as well, I have Gadabursi relatives so it is not hypothetical for me, it's personal. Just stop claiming Gabiley as your degaan, you're making yourself look foolish.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
"Africa Intelligence: Egal writes to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin "Your Obedient Servant"
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...er-yitzhak-rabin-your-obedient-servant.19761/
No Pan-Somalist would be begging for the recognition of Israel.
Gabiley I can understand since there are isaaqs living there, like I said it's a shared border region. But Salal is categorically ours and that's a fact.
"Africa Intelligence: Egal writes to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin "Your Obedient Servant"
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...er-yitzhak-rabin-your-obedient-servant.19761/
No Pan-Somalist would be begging for the recognition of Israel.
Whatever, you realize when you insult Egal you're insulting a man which worked more for "Somaliweyn" as PM in one day than you have ever done in your life. He was actually originally against SL independence, and only after they begged him to take the presidency of SL did he take it, with the intention of rebuilding and reunifying. He was actually hated by other Issaqs for loving the south and Xamar so much. You posting that internet propoganda isn't going to change that. He was true Geesi Geesi Dalay AUN to President Egal.
Here is dispelling the claims of dividing Somalis into "Faqash":
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Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
He wouldn't have fought against Tuur, who also was another unionist, if he was against SL independence. He wouldn't have embaressed himself by writing a letter to Israel calling himself a humble servant if he was working for Somaliweyn. This picture that you portray that everybody is Somaliweyn, and that a small fraction wanted independence is just ridiculous. I'm yet to see someone outside the internet who is Isaaq against independence.
History state something else.
Dhulbahante particularly like to refer to the Dervish history and their role in it to mark their ‘perennial’ opposition to the British protectorate and its apparent ‘successor’, the Republic of Somaliland. Yet oral and written history suggest a more complex picture. The summary of Maxamed Cabdille Xasan’s history in Chapter 4 presented the Dervish war as much as a civil war between and within various northern Somali clans as a ‘jihad’ and ‘nationalist’ struggle against the infidel and colonial intruders. Sheikh-‘Abdi (1993: 93-119) aptly described how various Dhulbahante, Ogadeen and Majeerteen sub-clans, as well as Isaaq clans, joined or opposed the Dervishes, depending on strategic considerations, inter-group animosities and the luck of war. This author also shed light on the brutal side of Maxamed Cabdille Xasan’s rule.455 The Sayid reacted to disobedience by massacring and robbing whole families, including women and children. Upon his orders, prisoners of war were killed and messengers sent to him executed if their messages did not please him. Those clan leaders who were in his way, like Garaad Cali of the Dhulbahante/Faarax Garaad, were assassinated.
Maxamed Cabdille Xasan’s arrogance and ruthlessness repulsed many Somalis, including Dhulbahante and Warsangeli. For instance Reer Hagar, the most numerous Dhulbahante sub-clan residing in the Buuhoodle area, refused to join the Sayid. Some of my Dhulbahante informants said ‘Reer Hagar waa fallaago’ (‘Reer Hagar were outlaws’) (interview with Cabdirashid Sheekh Cabdullahi Aaden and others, Buuhoodle, 15.03.04). There was some disagreement, however, about the question of whether Reer Hagar sided with the British or stayed neutral. Cabdirashid, who himself was Reer Hagar and whose paternal great-grandfather was a prominent Dervish, argued that ‘the Dhulbahante were two parts: the ones joining the Dervish movements and the ones refusing it; the latter were punished by the Dervish leader’ (ibid.). This kind of split was also typical of a number of other Dhulbahante sub-clans. Sometimes even brothers went to opposing sides. Nuur Xidigh and Suudi Xidigh were two brothers and famous warriors of Dhulbahante/Naaleeye Axmed/Cali Naaleeye/Bah Cabdalle. The first one was a Dervish and the second one supported the British (interview with Axmed Faarax Araale Laasasurat, Ceerigaabo, 18.06.2004).
Garaad Cabdiqani emphasised that the position today (in the first decade of the twenty-first century) of many Dhulbahante and some Warsangeli that ‘we are the Dervishes, we fought the Isaaq’ is ‘nonsense’ (interview with Garaad Cabdiqani, Laascaanood, 28.10.2003). Above I clarified that quite a large number of Isaaq were Dervishes. Similarly, many Dhulbahante and Warsangeli were either with the British or tried to stay ‘neutral’ (interview with Garaad Cabdiqani, Laascaanood, 28.10.2003). The Dervish war brought destruction particularly to the Dhulbahante, who lost many men, women, children and animals to Dervish as well as to British attacks.
Oral evidence indicates that, contrary to what many Dhulbahante and Warsangeli argued in the 2000s, the British controlled their area back in colonial times, and it was fully part of the protectorate. The first decade or so after the Dervish war was certainly a time without much administration in the eastern regions of the protectorate. In fact, many Dhulbahante and Warsangeli fled the area ravaged by war. Only in the 1930s did some administration begin to take hold, for instance with the foundation of the town of Ceerigaabo around a well (called af-weyne) previously used predominantly by Dhulbahante and Habar Yoonis. One Dhulbahante elder stressed that ‘between 1920 and 1940 there was no colonial rule in the area between Burco and Taleex. It was a fully nomadic region. In 1940, the Italians captured the area and looted the animals and the property of the people. The [Dhulbahante] nomads fled to the west and met with the British in Burco. There they joined the British against the Italians’ (interview with Ismaaciil Dubed, Taleex, 21.09.2002).
Another elder maintained that after the Dervish wars,
the British came to Buuhoodle and Laascaanood and up to Yocadda [the border with the Italian territory in the east]. But the Dhulbahante used to stay further; some had fled to the side of the Majeerteen. The centre of the British administration in the region was Laascaanood. … In 1954 the British and the Dhulbahante had a meeting in Hargeysa. Garaad Jaamac (Baharasame), Xasan Deyl (Chief Caaqil of Cali Geri), Yuusuf Kooreeye (Chief Caaqil of Reer Hagar) and other elders went to Hargeysa to negotiate with the British. Peace was agreed upon. Afterwards, the Dhulbahnte and the British were on good terms. (Interview with Maxamuud Qarshe, Buuhoodle, 12.03.2004)
John Drysdale, who was district commissioner in Laascaanood in the mid-1950s, mentioned that ‘the word “Dervish” was not in the vocabulary of Dhulbahante in those days’ (interview with John Drysdale, Hargeysa, 27.01.2009). Lewis, who conducted field research in the area between Buuhoodle and Laascaanood between 1956 and 1957, emphasised that he had never come across any reference to the Dervish movement as an expression of opposition to the British or Somaliland in those days (conversation with Ioan M. Lewis, London, August 2004).Besides these narratives, the integration of the Dhulbahante into the British Protectorate is illustrated by the fact that after the Dervish war a considerable number of members of this clan fled west to Burco, Sheekh and Berbera. There they intermarried with Isaaq/Habar Awal and other Isaaq clans. This history of flight is ‘stored’ in the biographies of the grandfather generation of many Dhulbahante living today. Moreover, one frequently finds Dhulbahante whose fathers and paternal grandfathers served as British policemen after Maxamed Cabdille Xasan and his movement had been defeated. Some of them had been Dervishes or at least the sons of Dervishes before.
the British came to Buuhoodle and Laascaanood and up to Yocadda [the border with the Italian territory in the east]. But the Dhulbahante used to stay further; some had fled to the side of the Majeerteen. The centre of the British administration in the region was Laascaanood. … In 1954 the British and the Dhulbahante had a meeting in Hargeysa. Garaad Jaamac (Baharasame), Xasan Deyl (Chief Caaqil of Cali Geri), Yuusuf Kooreeye (Chief Caaqil of Reer Hagar) and other elders went to Hargeysa to negotiate with the British. Peace was agreed upon. Afterwards, the Dhulbahnte and the British were on good terms. (Interview with Maxamuud Qarshe, Buuhoodle, 12.03.2004)
The issue of Caynabo obviously touched a nerve among many Dhulbahante, not only in Buuhoodle but also far beyond, and even among some Isaaq. During an interview about the role of traditional authorities in Buuhoodle, Maxamuud Xaaji Cumar Camey, the chairman of the local elders’ council (see Chapter 6), mentioned that ‘all the older Dhulbahante of the area were born between Horufadhi and Caynabo’ (interview with Garaad Cabdullahi and Maxamuud Xaaji Cumar Camey, Buuhoodle, 15.03.04). I interpreted this as a reminder that the Dhulbahante dominated the land up to Caynabo before the British enabled the Habar Jeclo to occupy it. When talking about degaan among pastoral nomads in northern Somalia, a Dhulbahante/Naaleeye Axmed man in Ceerigaabo stressed that land ownership can actually change over time. To illustrate hispoint he stressed that Caynabo had been in the hands of Dhulbahante some 60 years ago; it fell to the Habar Jeclo during the course of some inter-clan fighting (interview with Axmed Xaaji Aadan Afqallooc, Ceerigaabo, 05.06.04).
Get over it
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Egal was part of the last generation of true wadani Somali politicians in the SYL. He was himself a unionist but respected the wishes of the majority of Isaaq in '91 who wanted to separate after Aideed declared himself president. It's well known that if Xamar had rebuilt itself during his presidency. Egal would have started negotiations to reunite with them under a new power sharing constitution. Egal was regularly accused of not being pro independence enough, and of having a dual loyalty towards Xamar since he served prominently there.
The Civil war in 94-95 was a clan based proxy war between the SNM's armed factions and the xeer based government and who should run SL, not about independence which was already decided in the Burao and Borama conferences in 1991 and 1993.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
History state something else.
Dhulbahante particularly like to refer to the Dervish history and their role in it to mark their ‘perennial’ opposition to the British protectorate and its apparent ‘successor’, the Republic of Somaliland. Yet oral and written history suggest a more complex picture. The summary of Maxamed Cabdille Xasan’s history in Chapter 4 presented the Dervish war as much as a civil war between and within various northern Somali clans as a ‘jihad’ and ‘nationalist’ struggle against the infidel and colonial intruders. Sheikh-‘Abdi (1993: 93-119) aptly described how various Dhulbahante, Ogadeen and Majeerteen sub-clans, as well as Isaaq clans, joined or opposed the Dervishes, depending on strategic considerations, inter-group animosities and the luck of war. This author also shed light on the brutal side of Maxamed Cabdille Xasan’s rule.455 The Sayid reacted to disobedience by massacring and robbing whole families, including women and children. Upon his orders, prisoners of war were killed and messengers sent to him executed if their messages did not please him. Those clan leaders who were in his way, like Garaad Cali of the Dhulbahante/Faarax Garaad, were assassinated.
Maxamed Cabdille Xasan’s arrogance and ruthlessness repulsed many Somalis, including Dhulbahante and Warsangeli. For instance Reer Hagar, the most numerous Dhulbahante sub-clan residing in the Buuhoodle area, refused to join the Sayid. Some of my Dhulbahante informants said ‘Reer Hagar waa fallaago’ (‘Reer Hagar were outlaws’) (interview with Cabdirashid Sheekh Cabdullahi Aaden and others, Buuhoodle, 15.03.04). There was some disagreement, however, about the question of whether Reer Hagar sided with the British or stayed neutral. Cabdirashid, who himself was Reer Hagar and whose paternal great-grandfather was a prominent Dervish, argued that ‘the Dhulbahante were two parts: the ones joining the Dervish movements and the ones refusing it; the latter were punished by the Dervish leader’ (ibid.). This kind of split was also typical of a number of other Dhulbahante sub-clans. Sometimes even brothers went to opposing sides. Nuur Xidigh and Suudi Xidigh were two brothers and famous warriors of Dhulbahante/Naaleeye Axmed/Cali Naaleeye/Bah Cabdalle. The first one was a Dervish and the second one supported the British (interview with Axmed Faarax Araale Laasasurat, Ceerigaabo, 18.06.2004).
Garaad Cabdiqani emphasised that the position today (in the first decade of the twenty-first century) of many Dhulbahante and some Warsangeli that ‘we are the Dervishes, we fought the Isaaq’ is ‘nonsense’ (interview with Garaad Cabdiqani, Laascaanood, 28.10.2003). Above I clarified that quite a large number of Isaaq were Dervishes. Similarly, many Dhulbahante and Warsangeli were either with the British or tried to stay ‘neutral’ (interview with Garaad Cabdiqani, Laascaanood, 28.10.2003). The Dervish war brought destruction particularly to the Dhulbahante, who lost many men, women, children and animals to Dervish as well as to British attacks.
Oral evidence indicates that, contrary to what many Dhulbahante and Warsangeli argued in the 2000s, the British controlled their area back in colonial times, and it was fully part of the protectorate. The first decade or so after the Dervish war was certainly a time without much administration in the eastern regions of the protectorate. In fact, many Dhulbahante and Warsangeli fled the area ravaged by war. Only in the 1930s did some administration begin to take hold, for instance with the foundation of the town of Ceerigaabo around a well (called af-weyne) previously used predominantly by Dhulbahante and Habar Yoonis. One Dhulbahante elder stressed that ‘between 1920 and 1940 there was no colonial rule in the area between Burco and Taleex. It was a fully nomadic region. In 1940, the Italians captured the area and looted the animals and the property of the people. The [Dhulbahante] nomads fled to the west and met with the British in Burco. There they joined the British against the Italians’ (interview with Ismaaciil Dubed, Taleex, 21.09.2002).
Another elder maintained that after the Dervish wars. John Drysdale, who was district commissioner in Laascaanood in the mid-1950s, mentioned that ‘the word “Dervish” was not in the vocabulary of Dhulbahante in those days’ (interview with John Drysdale, Hargeysa, 27.01.2009). Lewis, who conducted field research in the area between Buuhoodle and Laascaanood between 1956 and 1957, emphasised that he had never come across any reference to the Dervish movement as an expression of opposition to the British or Somaliland in those days (conversation with Ioan M. Lewis, London, August 2004).Besides these narratives, the integration of the Dhulbahante into the British Protectorate is illustrated by the fact that after the Dervish war a considerable number of members of this clan fled west to Burco, Sheekh and Berbera. There they intermarried with Isaaq/Habar Awal and other Isaaq clans. This history of flight is ‘stored’ in the biographies of the grandfather generation of many Dhulbahante living today. Moreover, one frequently finds Dhulbahante whose fathers and paternal grandfathers served as British policemen after Maxamed Cabdille Xasan and his movement had been defeated. Some of them had been Dervishes or at least the sons of Dervishes before.
the British came to Buuhoodle and Laascaanood and up to Yocadda [the border with the Italian territory in the east]. But the Dhulbahante used to stay further; some had fled to the side of the Majeerteen. The centre of the British administration in the region was Laascaanood. … In 1954 the British and the Dhulbahante had a meeting in Hargeysa. Garaad Jaamac (Baharasame), Xasan Deyl (Chief Caaqil of Cali Geri), Yuusuf Kooreeye (Chief Caaqil of Reer Hagar) and other elders went to Hargeysa to negotiate with the British. Peace was agreed upon. Afterwards, the Dhulbahnte and the British were on good terms. (Interview with Maxamuud Qarshe, Buuhoodle, 12.03.2004)
The issue of Caynabo obviously touched a nerve among many Dhulbahante, not only in Buuhoodle but also far beyond, and even among some Isaaq. During an interview about the role of traditional authorities in Buuhoodle, Maxamuud Xaaji Cumar Camey, the chairman of the local elders’ council (see Chapter 6), mentioned that ‘all the older Dhulbahante of the area were born between Horufadhi and Caynabo’ (interview with Garaad Cabdullahi and Maxamuud Xaaji Cumar Camey, Buuhoodle, 15.03.04). I interpreted this as a reminder that the Dhulbahante dominated the land up to Caynabo before the British enabled the Habar Jeclo to occupy it. When talking about degaan among pastoral nomads in northern Somalia, a Dhulbahante/Naaleeye Axmed man in Ceerigaabo stressed that land ownership can actually change over time. To illustrate hispoint he stressed that Caynabo had been in the hands of Dhulbahante some 60 years ago; it fell to the Habar Jeclo during the course of some inter-clan fighting (interview with Axmed Xaaji Aadan Afqallooc, Ceerigaabo, 05.06.04).
Get over it
You lived in four small ports before the arrival of the British. That's it. The land you live in today is through cooperation with the British against Darood.
@Near what happened to you bordering Issa when 100 years ago it clearly states that the Gadabursi blocked you from the Issa?
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You're source says that "Habar Awal lived on the lowlands from Berbera to Zaylac." That's true we were a coastal people who moved southwards and won more land through battles afterwards.
The Gadabursi had no access to the coast. Only Issa and Habar Awal did that's what I meant when we said we bordered each other.
Also your source calls Issa and Gadabursi "Galla" tribes, which is a pejorative the British colonizers used for Oromos.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
The source also states that the Habar Jeclo lived in four small ports, and that the Ahl Ogahden, Girrhi and Burtirri occupied all the way to south of Berbera. Today, there is not a single trace of these three tribes whatsoever.Youre source says that "Habar Awal lived on the lowlands Berbera to Zaylac." That's true we were a coastal people who bordered Issa. You're confirming what I was already saying.
Also your source calls Issa and Gadabursi "Galla" tribes, which is a pejorative the British and colonizers used term for Oromo.
That means that the majority of Somaliland to the East was Darood and Isaaq only lived in the coast, to the West it was Darood/Issa/Gadabursi/Habar Awal prior to the arrival of the British. Therefore, GX and HJ gained tremendously after the colonizers came.
You also stated that you bordered the Issa before, when it clearly says you were blocked from them by the Gadabursi.
As for the claims that the Issa/Gadabursi are Oromo, I very much doubt it, but that has nothing to do with the discussion.
I'm saying the entire source is suspect, since they aren't oromo. Since that's obviously false, i'm sure there's more false claims in it as well.
Coastally we did border Issa. That's a fact.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
The source called us "Semi Arabs" (Darood/Isaaq) which means they called the Issa/Gadabursi Oromos because they don't claim descent from Arabs like we do. What is key here is that they didn't believe any of us were "Somalis".
It's also a bit more nuanced. You can find sources where Isaaq and Daarood only applied the term "Somaal" to each other and not to the other clans, calling the minorites oromo "galla" or "Sab" in a supremacist fashion. It's actually quite sad how they are described in some of these documents tbh.
See below:
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
From like 1600-1800, there was pretty much nothing happening in Somalia.
From 1800-1900 a lot of shit was happening. I'm sure that if we were left to our devices and if the colonials came in 1950 or something, Somalia would have been a much better place. We really got the bad end of the stick.
We didn't move to Zeila we always lived there. Even Sultan Mohamed Haji who was the Sultan of Zeila. We had the most Aqiils there in the Zeila agency.
Midakale. No one cares what colonial wrote and they referred to the Hawiye clan or Gadabursi and Issa. We are Somalis we know what we are. We don't need the approval how insecure can you be?
It just shows who licked the colonial boots the hardest.
Midakale. No one cares what colonial wrote and they referred to the Hawiye clan or Gadabursi and Issa. We are Somalis we know what we are. We don't need the approval how insecure can you be?
It just shows who licked the colonial boots the hardest.
Xaagi-Cagmadigtee
Guul ama Dhimasho
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