Discussion: Did Somali/Oromo identity did not exist prior to 1500s?

[NidarNidar]

You are conflating a single y-dna lineage with language.

Proto-Lowland East Cushitic likely began diverging into separate languages around 3,000–4,000 years ago (roughly 1000–2000 BCE), driven in part by the geographic separation of populations that later developed into proto-Oromo (inland highlands and lowlands) and proto-Somali (Horn coastal and semi-arid regions.

It happens to fit neatly between E-Y17859 and E-BY68781. With further testing, this could change, but it does not alter the fact that the divergence occurred a long time ago.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Somali identity existed, but not all modern day Somali identifying people could be defined as stemming from those people.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Proto-Lowland East Cushitic likely began diverging into separate languages around 3,000–4,000 years ago (roughly 1000–2000 BCE), driven in part by the geographic separation of populations that later developed into proto-Oromo (inland highlands and lowlands) and proto-Somali (Horn coastal and semi-arid regions.

It happens to fit neatly between E-Y17859 and E-BY68781. With further testing, this could change, but it does not alter the fact that the divergence occurred a long time ago.

Oromo and Somali share a much closer relationship within the Lowland East Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family.

However, comparing founder effect lineages is not a useful approach, as it risks giving a misleading impression of the pop history of these two groups and may skew interpretations. Among us Af-Maxaa speakers in particular, who are often over-represented, much of our original paternal diversity has been lost. This is why it is important to cross reference with other lineages that are shared between Somalis and Oromos such as Cushitic Haplogroup A or other E-M35 Cushitic lineages rather than focusing solely on a dominant founder line.

For example, within E-BY68781, there are highly diverged Somali lineages from both Sool and Banadir. These lineages are just as authentically Somaloid/Omo-Tana as the current founder-effect lineage that dominates both Somali and Af-Maay speakers. Furthermore, we also have evidence of an Oromo E-Y638760 sample under E-Y17859, which appears to have diverged from the lineages of modern Somaloids (both Af-Maxaa and Af-Maay speakers).

 

[Allen]

You’re not wrong on the Somali part, the term Somali started to appear in texts in early 15th century examples found in Yeshaq poem, Ibn Majid and Chinese sources from that period https://x.com/som_chronicles/status/1953567887790420353?s=46
Idk about oromos tho, but for Somalis this is a matter not much researched on why did the Somalis start identifying themselves as “Somali” in early 15th century. There wasn’t any major event as like the Oromo invasions or a big kingdom collapse in Somalia at that time so what was the cause?

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[aden1812]

You’re not wrong on the Somali part, the term Somali started to appear in texts in early 15th century examples found in Yeshaq poem, Ibn Majid and Chinese sources from that period https://x.com/som_chronicles/status/1953567887790420353?s=46
Idk about oromos tho, but for Somalis this is a matter not much researched on why did the Somalis start identifying themselves as “Somali” in early 15th century. There wasn’t any major event as like the Oromo invasions or a big kingdom collapse in Somalia at that time so what was the cause?

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I heard when arab traders arrived to the coast, tje Somalis would say "so maal" to get milk, and the arabs started refering to them as such. I believe names are always given (even yours, unless you named yourself), even native-americans were called "indians" for hundreds of years, and because we are a practical people, the name stuck.

Also, if it was not for Somalis in the east african coast, and our Muslim identity, we would of ended up like west africa, the oromos were used as a proxy group to control the indian ocean slave trade by portugal but we ended up winning. the world would of been a different place if Christians controled the whole east coast of Africa.

 

[Riftvalley]

You’re not wrong on the Somali part, the term Somali started to appear in texts in early 15th century examples found in Yeshaq poem, Ibn Majid and Chinese sources from that period https://x.com/som_chronicles/status/1953567887790420353?s=46
Idk about oromos tho, but for Somalis this is a matter not much researched on why did the Somalis start identifying themselves as “Somali” in early 15th century. There wasn’t any major event as like the Oromo invasions or a big kingdom collapse in Somalia at that time so what was the cause?

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It wouldn’t be a case of Somalis starting to referring to themselves as such in the 15th century. For this name to be used for a group of people in that period means that the name is probably 3-5 centuries older, possibly even known at the advent of Islam.