I am Hawiye/Degodia, but i am really starting to think that the prior to the Somali–Portuguese conflicts of 1507 and Ahmad Gurre, i dont think the identities really existed, even when ibn batattu visited both ports in somalia, he never refered to them as Somalis in 1300s.
Discussion: Did Somali/Oromo identity did not exist prior to 1500s?
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IIRC the Region known as the Somali Peninsula was recognized and called Somali many many many many centuries ago
But as for Identity not sure.
But as for Identity not sure.
No they very much did. The oromos only began to expand into their current terriotry in the 1500s and in those first few centuries they were pagans.
Current somali clans have essentially not changed their territories in the last 500 years. The somali identity is very clearly preislamic its just that are culutral similarities with the arabian penisula hides how little our culutrre has changed even with the conversion to islam
Current somali clans have essentially not changed their territories in the last 500 years. The somali identity is very clearly preislamic its just that are culutral similarities with the arabian penisula hides how little our culutrre has changed even with the conversion to islam
Its intresting that the Oromo expansion happened only after the war (timeline adds up).
Here is my thinking:
During the war, all the Muslim clans (predominately on the coast) that sided with ottomans, became Somali, and all the clans who sided with portuguese were known as "Gal/Gallo"(none-Muslim/outsider, old name for Oromo). maybe both the clans unified and operated like military divisions during war and economic colective during peace (japanese style), and it was during the war that both sides formed Somali and Oromo identities.
Anyway once Ahmed gurre, and the barawa did their thing and pushed the portuguese out of the Somali coast, the "Gallo/Oromo" became more africanized and later ethiopians (language changed). and that maybe we were all a collections of different clans and towns/cities in a part of the world that didnt have unified state structures but formed different nations due to religious differences.
Side note: i find it odd that SL wants to breakaway from the state they helped create. Ahmed gurre would be rolling in his grave right now.
If you guys are intrested in some intresting reads i discovered today.
Really intresting sources you posted. I think rhe idea that somalis used the word gallo not just for non-Muslims but also against other somalis makes a lot of sense. This practice which we see the sayyid and other 19th/20th century reforms use is probably a very old tactic.
This section was Particularly enlightened. Those gaal madow wars in the north and other such stories are not about some pagan group. But just sectarian infighting between somali mislims and are just the memory of them defeating earlier somali clans who lived here.
Somali clans were already well established, fully Muslim and named in the conquest of Abyssinia. Oromo clans have weird oromo names you can distinguish by and were pagan at the time. The oromos began their expansion in the 16th century. They never went past the Somali region
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The Orma oromos were those the Ajuran fought in the south later became slaves. They still live there
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Majority Somali ethno states existed but not a pure Somali nationality. This meant as an ethnicity groups would have incorporated other groups for reasons of war, migration, poverty etc. If there was a Somali nationality like in todays form the state would be responsible for granting Somali status to foreigners.
The Ethiopians sang poems in the 1400s of defeating Somalis in battle and in some previous narrations they said Timur/Samur. I don't think DNA has any involvement here. Hawiye and Dir living in Zeila and Mogadishu were both called Somali, Berber and mentioned in the Futuh as Somalis. It is an ancient pact that precedes any Oromo infiltration and most likely due to the language. Since we share everything with the Afar + Oromo except the language (though it likely has shared roots). You are probably right the Somali identity was emphasised or stronger at the advent of Islam. Those who accepted the faith would have worked on purifying their closest. So the Somalis who refused the new faith were sent packing to join others or killed off. Only then did the remaining Somalis focus on multiplying and uniting against the hereditary Ethiopian Monarch. The state formation of Adal/Ajuran is closely tied to the faith since a large part of their rule was to war with infidel groups. Once that was complete the state became obsolete and everyone went off to form their own emirate like the Isaaq, MJ, Hiraab, Geledi etc.
I heard somewhere that "names are given" like christopher columbus calling native Americans "indians" and that name sticking for 100s of years.
i do believe port cities on the somali coast contributed to the creation of somali identity to the outside world, but 1,000 years ago and even today, the port Somalis and the Somalis in badiyo have mainly religion and language in common. the influence of Al shabab in badiyo, the somali civil war, the loss of galbeed. i think all those give context to the idea that Somalis have been defined by internal struggles. All of these events give context to the idea that Somali identity has never been a singular thing, and in the worst case a somali identity can split off like the Rendille or Oromo.
i think studying the history will keep us unified instead of fragmenting.
Espaa_
Ku sali nabiga {scw}
quick question is degodia hawiye? I dont think yall are hawiye tbh. I think you guys are just politically aligned with us
Because the Somali identity was born after Darood’s arrival post 1300s.
Wrong
you can deny it as much as you want but as the original thread poster said ^So u believe somalis popped out randomly?
No but there was no identity prior to Darood’s arrival and so when Darood arrived his great grandchildren/descendants started conquering lands and bringing civilisation.
Garaad Awal
Former African
Proof?
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