Diaspora vs homeland

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McD30

Bored to death
I realized that I have very little in common with traditional Somali culture back home.This let me to think that there are 2 cultures, the diaspora and the homeland. I am personally well versed in Somali however many of my peers are not so what binds second generation immigrants to Somalia?

I understand that people are curious about their origins but Somalia has nothing to offer a young adult living in the West.
 
This is a very good topic, hopefully more people will join in .

From my opinion, there seems to be crucial distance between the Diaspora youth ergo (grown & raised outside of Somalia) and the Youth back home.

The most concerning thing is that the civil war has birthed a generation of somalis whom are foreing to alot of things that are somali,

1. Language
2. Mentality
3.Somali Identity
5. Foreign Motherland

Most try to to compensate by trying to be equated with their culture and have a sense of understanding for their own people. Be united with their roots. Due to lack of facilities, oppurtunities ,utilities many fail at that and the ever conflicting expectations from their host countries as a result many fail at that

What binds somalis to Somalia and people back there, is ancestry heritage, family and land or property, religion and household costums, which are very much the same.

With that said i disagree somalia has alot to offer the youth interms of strengthening their bond between them and their family, teaching them about their culture and family background which would aid in them to have a sense of self and confidence, but also and oppurtunity to invest in somalia , wether is real estate education , heritage. businesses etc.
 

McD30

Bored to death
The question inevitably becomes, what defines Somali? I think it is important given the unique situation Somalis are in that we define or re-define ourselves to align with our current predicament. The Jewish community did that in the late 19th century regarding the establishment of a state but I think we need to emulate that in terms of culture.

I do not think it's possible to bridge the gap between the new generation and the homeland. We are liberal, they are very conservative and truly zealous in religious beliefs. They will not budge an inch. Harsh environments produce harsh people and given the poor state of Somalia with many living in poverty, I don't see it aligning with the rest of the world.

I think the diaspora should collectively invest in Somalia or abandon it altogether. We have kept the state going on remittances, aid and corrupt politicians for a quarter of a century which has allowed them to become dependent on us without changing their lifestyle. The lifestyle I am referring to is a lazy one that does not allow any room for improvement. Manual labor is looked down upon and even mocked and discriminated against, it is given to Madows etc while kids collect certificates from local universities that have no reach. There's a real brain drain in the country and it has been fostered by the nomadic culture and hand outs.

We in the diaspora have the opportunity to define what it means to be Somali by producing a better public image and focusing on the positive aspects of our culture. The positive aspects such as language, customs, arts can be merged with Western thought to produce a new hybrid culture that future generations would be proud of.
 
The question inevitably becomes, what defines Somali? I think it is important given the unique situation Somalis are in that we define or re-define ourselves to align with our current predicament. The Jewish community did that in the late 19th century regarding the establishment of a state but I think we need to emulate that in terms of culture.
I disagree, We need to reclaim not re define. As you are aware somalis have had alot of foreign influence and as a result, want to impose foreign systems and doctrines that doesnt fit with us wont work. Emulating is what somalis have been doing since the start siad barres regime this is why somalia has become what is has become.

So we need to collectively Reclaim our Somaliness and use that to not only unite but push for Peaceful reconciliation.

I do not think it's possible to bridge the gap between the new generation and the homeland. We are liberal, they are very conservative and truly zealous in religious beliefs. They will not budge an inch. Harsh environments produce harsh people and given the poor state of Somalia with many living in poverty, I don't see it aligning with the rest of the world.
Wast majority of Somali youth in he diaspora are very much conservative, but if we were liberal, that wouldnt make it impossible. As i have i stated by bridging the qap via cultural heritage and ancestry , as wee have more commonalities/simmalarities than differences and that is what should bind us.

A better environment will start to change with a collective drive towards change. That is why theres a need and a urge to call for a revolution a somali centric revolution btw.

I
think the diaspora should collectively invest in Somalia or abandon it altogether. We have kept the state going on remittances, aid and corrupt politicians for a quarter of a century which has allowed them to become dependent on us without changing their lifestyle. The lifestyle I am referring to is a lazy one that does not allow any room for improvement. Manual labor is looked down upon and even mocked and discriminated against, it is given to Madows etc while kids collect certificates from local universities that have no reach. There's a real brain drain in the country and it has been fostered by the nomadic culture and hand outs.
When i spoke about investments it wasnt about remittance, which in my opinion is akin to slavery.
The Government doesnt mobilize the people or invest in them and we diaspora by funding our own people to sustain them , we at the same time cripple them. You can argue that , well what incentives do they have to work, when the diaspora somalis send them money?

Nomadic culture? No! People down north and puntland Are somali farmers and they farm their own stuff. Its only in the south they employ bantus not because somalis look down on it but, because of diasporians selfishness that they want to import non-somali labour.

Somaliand


Puntland

This myth of somalis in general hating and looking down on it is false, when even Gadabursi and Isaas are farmers. So is the raxanweyne clans as well. Somalis have a long rich history of farming you can look no further than the Ajuuran sultunate to see that they employed nomads even as farmers.

The truth of the matter is if somoene is proud of their profession . they are not going to say hey f*ck my job i would trade it for anything?
Ask a CEO of a company if he loves his job , he woldnt ditch it to become a shopkeeper. Thats the kind of level of nobility and mentality that somali nomads garner from their profession and it is only natural.

You have to give people the incentives to do something, not just expect them to, or blame culture if they dont.

We in the diaspora have the opportunity to define what it means to be Somali by producing a better public image and focusing on the positive aspects of our culture. The positive aspects such as language, customs, arts can be merged with Western thought to produce a new hybrid culture that future generations would be proud of.
We define it by reclaiming Somaliness, costumizing it , investing in it and modernizing it, Be continuing the somali narritve.. We dont do it by abondoning Somali reality and start exporting western reality. Like i said see how that worked out with siad barre. All this shit somali politicians and leaders are doing to the people are foreign and you want to add more foreign stuff to the mix? To destabilize somalia more than what is now.

Cultural marxism is not the answer saaxiib.
 

McD30

Bored to death
I think foreign influence in Somalia has been political not cultural. There has been no influx of McDonalds and Toys'R'us. The Somali culture you want to reclaim is very unproductive in my opinion. It's a pastoral economy, there has never been any history of large scale agriculture in Somalia let alone in the north that was completely indigenous in modern Somali times. Any land outside the river basin in the south is too arid to irrigate but can still be farmed. This isn't a wide scale thing though. Their most prized possessions is the camel.

For example, eating fish is taboo in this culture. It is looked down upon and discriminated against. In fact, UN groups try and introduce fish into the Somali culture to substitute it for the camels and goats they lose during famines. These are workshops that rarely work. The EU even funds the construction of fish markets in inland towns.

The only positive things to claim are the ones we already do such as language, customs and arts, the rest is useless. I do not think you can convince an 18 year old living in the West to give up their lives to fix other people's mistakes. The Somali diaspora should redefine what it means to be Somali otherwise the culture will remain stagnant. There has been no progress in 25 years perhaps even longer if you look at it from a scholarly point of view (Somali studies).
 
I think foreign influence in Somalia has been political not cultural.
There has been no influx of McDonalds and Toys'R'us
Mcdonalads and Toyrus is cultural influence to you?


The Somali culture you want to reclaim is very unproductive in my opinion. It's a pastoral economy, there has never been any history of large scale agriculture in Somalia let alone in the north that was completely indigenous in modern Somali times. Any land outside the river basin in the south is too arid to irrigate but can still be farmed. This isn't a wide scale thing though
No history of large scale agriculture in somalia?:comeon:

Somali Anjuuran empire launching Full scale agriculture economy.
With the centralized supervision of the Ajuran Empire, farms in Afgooye, Kismayo and other areas in the Jubba and Shabelle valleys increased their productivity. A system of irrigation ditches known locally as Kelliyo fed directly from the Shebelle and Jubba rivers into the plantations where sorghum, maize, beans, grain and cotton were grown during the gu (Spring in Somali) and xagaa (Summer in Somali) seasons of the Somali calendar. This irrigation system was supported by numerous dikes and dams. To determine the average size of a farm, a land measurement system was also invented with moos, taraab and guldeed being the terms used.
Farms in Afgooye


Farms in Jubavalley.


Ancient Somali Calendar for seasonal harvesting and farming used throughout centuries.




Saaxiib you need to learn about your history and culture, just because we were majority nomads which had alot to do with the our climate/environment did not mean we didnt engage other practices or have any culture of other professions cuz we did and had extensive long history with it.

Most of somalia is complete desert, tho only places down north is by the the river basins were Gadubursi and Isaas clan as farmers cuz thats what their profession wasth and in the south traditional farming is practiced by raxanweyne are by and large as a clan sedentary farmers.
Clans like Abgaal in Jowhar,Hawadle and other in Hiiraan as well as an assortment of clans in the jubba regions.

Before the war Somalias economy relied many lives stock and agriculture and we were the leading exporters of banana moos.
:camby:



Their most prized possessions is the camel.
Most prized possesion is the quran, but the camel contributed to the survival of the somali people being that 80-90% somalia is dry desert land. The camel provided transport food, milk and as caravan to trades. Nothing wrong with it.

We utilized animals for our necesassities we used horses mainly for war for centuries.

For example, eating fish is taboo in this culture. It is looked down upon and discriminated against. In fact, UN groups try and introduce fish into the Somali culture to substitute it for the camels and goats they lose during famines. These are workshops that rarely work. The EU even funds the construction of fish markets in inland towns.
:comeon:What load of horse shit! By your logic we look down upon isaaqs and hartis as the were most fishers, sailors and coastal dvelers.
Whole section of my own ancestors is and was fishers. and still even are coastal dveler sailors & fishers

my damn uncle got a tunna factory in somalia

here is the video my cousin doing the playfull funny faux commercial for it

Habo tuna factory were they employed many fishers., date is 2010 by the way before the Un initiative.

By your logic we look down on Sailing as well even tho we have an extensive Maritime History comparable to that of ancient egypt and Carthage.

Maritime history of Somalia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_history_of_Somalia

Maritime history of Somalia refers to the seafaring tradition of the Somali people.[1] It includes various stages of Somalinavigational technology, shipbuilding and design, as well as the history of the Somali port cities. It also covers the historical sea routes taken by Somali sailors which sustained the commercial enterprises of the historical Somali kingdoms and empires, in addition to the contemporary maritime culture of Somalia.

Did you forget that we own the prime ancient Somali maritime vessel that today remains the longest surviving sewn ship in East Africa and the world.


Or that before the war we had the largest merchant fleet in the muslims world.

Un's initiative wasnt put in place because we neglected fishing or looked down upon but because due to the war the somali waters have become unsafe , toxic wast dumping lack of equipments and essentials. Taboo my butt , never heard of such a bold face lie before.

If somalis dont like fishing or neglect it, then who are these pirates in the ocean?
Saxiib you are just talking straight bulshitt, you dont even know anything about somali culture or history. :camby:


The only positive things to claim are the ones we already do such as language, customs and arts, the rest is useless. I do not think you can convince an 18 year old living in the West to give up their lives to fix other people's mistakes. The Somali diaspora should redefine what it means to be Somali otherwise the culture will remain stagnant. There has been no progress in 25 years perhaps even longer if you look at it from a scholarly point of view (Somali studies).
Everything you claimed was bunch of offensive rubbish you dont even know somali history or culture :camby:
 

McD30

Bored to death
1. McDonalds and Toys'R'us are part of the American culture and America is the greatest exporter of culture in human history. There has been none more influential than America. My point was and is that there has been no foreign meddling in Somali culture. Tbh, the only foreign infusion of culture was Islam.

2. I said in modern times there has been no wide scale farming. But lets take your example for an instance. If Ajuuraan is the great farming economy that you claimed it is, then there would have been no need for a nomadic culture even in the south. Agriculture has been the base for any industrial economy today, so why did the territory that encompasses Ajuuraan adopt a pastoral lifestyle? Why didn't any of the farming techniques survive?

Wide-scale farming was introduced by the Italian colonialists who turned peasant farming into large scale banana plantations.

3.
Somalia has a 3,300-kilometer coastline – the longest in Africa – yet the people of Somalia eat very little seafood. The country's per capita fish consumption is 2.4 kilograms per year, one of the lowest in the world.

https://www.wfp.org/news/news-release/un-food-agencies-somalia-promote-eating-fish-fight-hunger
 
1. McDonalds and Toys'R'us are part of the American culture and America is the greatest exporter of culture in human history. There has been none more influential than America. My point was and is that there has been no foreign meddling in Somali culture. Tbh, the only foreign infusion of culture was Islam.
You could have used a better example like for instance how most of the signs in somalia,djibouti,mogudishu somaliland are all in arabic,english,french ahmaric. Radios in somaliland is in ahmaric.

Or the fact that somali men are running around holding hands, like arabs and indians. Or that somali women are plastering imported white bleach creams inspirred by india and arabia.

Somali people started importing a different cultures and alien norms of self-importance, standards of beauty which even extended to food types and language. This has led to a generation of self-loathing. A person speaking English, Arabic or even Swahili is more like to get a job than a fully qualified only Somali speaking individual. We have demeaned our own heritage and self-worth is measured by how westernised you appear.

2. I said in modern times there has been no wide scale farming. But lets take your example for an instance. If Ajuuraan is the great farming economy that you claimed it is, then there would have been no need for a nomadic culture even in the south. Agriculture has been the base for any industrial economy today, so why did the territory that encompasses Ajuuraan adopt a pastoral lifestyle? Why didn't any of the farming techniques survive?
No what you said it is that it wasnt part of somali culture even tho numorous clans were indeed farmers and sedentary farms. Its just happens to be the majority of somalis were nomads because the location many lived in was not farm land, even with that many clans were agro pastortial and adopted dry land farming.

Ajuuran Empire was an empire based down south and utilized the farming areas of somalia which are far and less and most down in the south jubba valley and af gooye. Hence why abgaal the southern somali clan, Raxanweyn and numerous clans were farmers.
They didnt adopt pastoral lifstyle.

Farming techniques did survive i even showed you info on that, geez is like im talking to a guy who got raped by a nomad and now he is angry at them.

like i showed you we had our own farming practices ancient calendar seasonal weather/harvesting. still being used right now.

Modern? You mean after the war? lack of equipment supervision, diaspora funding , Aid crippling the community,. Lack of institutions, Alshabab controlling most of the south terrorist poor governance, which contributed to lack of productivity, many factors and guess what? non of it is culture.

Why? because the whole country of somalia is not farming land, its bleeping desert yet you expect majority to be farmers?

During siad barres regime most of somalia economy relied on agriculture and livestock and We were in fact the leading exporter of Banana in the world. Set up many farmign corparations and

Wide-scale farming was introduced by the Italian colonialists who turned peasant farming into large scale banana plantations.
No it wasnt and i already showed you wide scale farming was already in use during the ajuuran empire and even moos was planted.

With the centralized supervision of the Ajuran Empire, farms in Afgooye, Kismayo and other areas in the Jubba and Shabelle valleys increased their productivity. A system of irrigation ditches known locally as Kelliyo fed directly from the Shebelle and Jubba rivers into the plantations where sorghum, maize, beans, grain and cotton were grown during the gu (Spring in Somali) and xagaa (Summer in Somali) seasons of the Somali calendar. This irrigation system was supported by numerous dikes and dams. To determine the average size of a farm, a land measurement system was also invented with moos, taraab and guldeed being the terms used.
Even geledi sultunate used clans for farming its is nothing alien,shunned or looked down upon in our culture. but you cannot hardly expect to have a wide scale farming industry across regions, when the place is flippen 90% desert. Most clans live in desert unfarmable areas, hence why most were nomads because they had to rely on livestock.

You can urge for more productiivity in this areas but you cannot ignore the factors,including the factors of civil war and put the blame on culture which is absoulute nonsense.

Somalia has a 3,300-kilometer coastline – the longest in Africa – yet the people of Somalia eat very little seafood. The country's per capita fish consumption is 2.4 kilograms per year, one of the lowest in the world.

https://www.wfp.org/news/news-release/un-food-agencies-somalia-promote-eating-fish-fight-hunger
Gee i wonder why:comeon:, perhaps because of this.



News of toxic waste dumping in Somali waters has circulated since the collapse of the Mohamed Siad Barre military regime in 1991, but because of the lack of a functioning central government and general lawless state of Somalia there has been little systematic investigation done on both the source of the toxic waste and its impact on communities living along Somalias 3,300km coastline. The issue received renewed attention in 2004, however, when a Tsunami surge washed up containers containing hazardous waste in Southern Somalia. According to a report from Common Community Care (2006), a local nongovernmental organization, radioactive materials and hydrogen peroxide toxic wastes were found in different locations in Southern and Central Somalia. Common Community Care (CCC) stated an unconfirmed number of fishermen had died from health conditions at locations where containers were found. In Barava district of Lower Shabelle region, local residents spoke of sudden death and skin rashes. Communities reported mass death of fish[1].
Or maybe it has something to do with this

Foreign companies loot 350 million dollars.
He said foreign interests seized the opportunity to begin looting the country’s seafood after the collapse of the Somali government in 1991.

“Between 700 up to 800 illegal fishing ships directly steal Somali seafood. They took any kind of fish including nest eggs in the deep waters”, he told AfricaNews in an exclusive interview.

He added that foreign ships use prohibited fishing equipment, including nets with very small mesh sizes and sophisticated underwater lighting systems, to lure fish to their traps.

Somalia waters have huge numbers of commercial fish species, including
the prized yellow fin tuna.

The illegal fishing ships come from Italy, Egypt, India, South Korea, Kenya, Tanzania, and Spain, according to a research that is yet to be published by Prof. Abdi Ismail Samater and his colleagues at University of Minnesota.

:camby:
 
You coming across some guy who really loaths nomads and puts his civilized worth on modernity as opposed to his Humanity.
Modernity like a decribed in another thread i created is a technological state, nothing to do with civilization or being civilized , which has alot to do with Humanity destituted by the social development of people.

Nomads have contribute significantly already with livestock industry which has boosted the somali economy.

Berbera port and pastoralism prove livestock's worth in Somaliland
http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...berbera-port-pastoralism-livestock-somaliland

Given the improvements at the Hargeisa livestock market and the dynamism of Berbera's port manager, Little's optimistic scenario for livestock and pastoralists does not seem far-fetched. In the new book, Pastoralism and Development in Africa, he writes: "In this scenario, the normal occurrence of drought would no longer result in widespread food shortages and hunger as markets would function effectively and local incomes would be sufficient to purchase needed foods."
The Somali livestock industry accounts for about 40% of Somalia’s GDP and is the main income earner for most Somalia People. In normal years, livestock and its products can account for 80% of total exports.

Even Puntlands Livestock industy is mainly run by nomads and it is boooming.
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
For example, eating fish is taboo in this culture. It is looked down upon and discriminated against. In fact, UN groups try and introduce fish into the Somali culture to substitute it for the camels and goats they lose during famines. These are workshops that rarely work. The EU even funds the construction of fish markets in inland towns.
My ancestors were fishers and they were never looked down upon or shunned. This cultural practice of fish avoidance is prominent in some parts of Somalia, not all, and it's remnants of a pre-Islamic past (the Cushitic fish-eating taboo). In Puntland and Somaliland, fishing may not be utilized to its full potential but the Waaqism practice of shunning individuals or clans who fish or eat fish does not exist. That practice starts in Southern Mudug ( ie Hobyo) where clans / castes such as Reer Manyo make an appearance so it is a strictly southern/Central Somalia practice.
 
Instead of blaming culture you could be preaching for productivity of the Somali fisher sailor clans and Farming somali clans and the Somali pastorial livestock clans.

But you have to take into account many factors, like mismanagement,Civil war,piracy,fish looting,toxic dumping, lack of equipments,poverty, zero governmental institutions,Terrorism etc.

Cuz i know one thing is for sure the problem is definetly not culture and saaxiib ditch this inferior hatred you have for nomads its no charming at all.
 
So for you claiming this is a Somali practice of fish taboo is generalizing a very localized practice that has its roots in waaqism.
 

McD30

Bored to death
1. Farming has never been part of Somali culture. Even if there was thousands of farmers, it has never been farming culture. It was usually done by Bantu clans rather than Somalis. Even if you look at Somalia today, wide-scale farming is done in areas where the Italians set up shop like Jowhar-Banadir corridor.

2. Fish meat has never been consumed on a wide-scale. You are making it seem as if people stopped consuming fish when toxic waste was dumped in the ocean 20 years ago. It has always been taboo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_drink_prohibitions#Fish

The old Somali culture is a very lazy one where nomadic lifestyle was considered the epitome of professions. Carpentry, masonry and work that required skill was done by minorities like Madhiban and Tumaal including creating weaponry as smiths so the nomads could kill each other after dissing each other with poems.

@Sensei Your family may never have been shunned or discriminated but that could be because they kept their own community and never ventured much outside. Maybe if you check your lineage there could be a lot of inbreeding. There's a lot of that in my family.

Guys, I think we need to abandon Somalia as a diaspora, cut off all the remittances for 20 years and see what happens because the future doesn't look bright at all. In the meantime, we will take the positive aspects of our culture which can appeal to the upcoming 3rd generation in the West so it will not be lost in the carnage that is *******a.
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
2. Fish meat has never been consumed on a wide-scale. You are making it seem as if people stopped consuming fish when toxic waste was dumped in the ocean 20 years ago. It has always been taboo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_drink_prohibitions#Fish

The old Somali culture is a very lazy one where nomadic lifestyle was considered the epitome of professions. Carpentry, masonry and work that required skill was done by minorities like Madhiban and Tumaal including creating weaponry as smiths so the nomads could kill each other after dissing each other with poems.

@Sensei Your family may never have been shunned or discriminated but that could be because they kept their own community and never ventured much outside. Maybe if you check your lineage there could be a lot of inbreeding. There's a lot of that in my family.
Fish was not and is not consumed on a large-scale, but to say that fish-eating is shunned by Somalis is a generalization. It is not shunned in the North. If it were we would see entire castes of ethnic Somalis who are shunned solely for eating fish ( i.e. the Reer Manyo and Jaaji), but the last place this clan is exists is in Hobyo. I'm not arguing that everyone in Puntland and Somaliland eats fish. What I'm saying is that the cultural practice of shunning fish or looking down at people who fish or eat fish does not exist in the region. It can be argued that the Cushitic fish-eating taboo is not the only remnant of Waaqism in the south. Perhaps the North was saved from this because they were believed to have been Nestorian Christians before converting to Islam.

Inbreeding is a reality among all Somalis, including nomads, but that does not explain why fishing is seen as normal in the North vs taboo in the South. There are plenty of fishing villages in Puntland and the trade practiced by my ancestors extended to my subclan. We are the traditional leaders of my clan so who could discriminate against us?
 
1. Farming has never been part of Somali culture. Even if there was thousands of farmers, it has never been farming culture. It was usually done by Bantu clans rather than Somalis. Even if you look at Somalia today, wide-scale farming is done in areas where the Italians set up shop like Jowhar-Banadir corridor.
Like i said many somali clans down south were farmers abgaal , the whole digil and mirifle were sedentary farmers. and gadabursi and isaas were farmers not nomads. So its pretty much somali culture as we have our own specialized farming practices farming calendar and large scale farming history down south/central via ajuuran and even geledi used farming for unification of clans.

It is actually digil and mirifle, abgaal who are doing the wide scale farming mostly, even to some bantus are involved. Bantus have zero farm land or property remember everything taken by southern somali clans.

Baseless claims saaxiib, hugely in denial. :camby:

2. Fish meat has never been consumed on a wide-scale. You are making it seem as if people stopped consuming fish when toxic waste was dumped in the ocean 20 years ago. It has always been taboo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_drink_prohibitions#Fish
Like me and Sensei already pointed out Northern,Western somalis are fisher consumed fish and have zero taboo with it.
It is a bold faced generalization like i stated above since this only localized practice.

Toxic waste or not tell me who those puntland pirates were and why they were out there. :damnmusic:

The old Somali culture is a very lazy one where nomadic lifestyle was considered the epitome of professions. Carpentry, masonry and work that required skill was done by minorities like Madhiban and Tumaal including creating weaponry as smiths so the nomads could kill each other after dissing each other with poems.
Mhm?:patrice: nomads profession Lazy?


Wood making work and carving a respectable profession for nomads

Carving, known in Somali as qoris, is a much respected profession in Somalia both in historic and modern times. Many wealthy urbanites in the medieval period regularly employed the finest wood and marble carvers in Somalia to work on their interiors and houses. The carvings on the mihrabs and pillars of ancient Somali mosques are some of the oldest on the continent. Artistic carving was considered the province of men similar to how the Somali textile industry was mainly a women's business. Amongst the nomads, carving, especially woodwork, was widespread and could be found on the most basic objects such as spoons, combs and bowls, but it also included more complex structures such as the portable nomadic house, the aqal. In the last several decades, traditional carving of windows, doors and furniture has taken a backseat to the introduction of workshops employing electrical machinery which deliver the same results in a far shorter time period.[2]
Textile industry was by nomads and woodwork industry furniture,windows,doors marbles. :obama:

Again dont see your point unless madhibaan who were hunter gatherers and tuumaal the blacksmiths are not somalis. So i donts see how that is not part of somali culture.

@Sensei Your family may never have been shunned or discriminated but that could be because they kept their own community and never ventured much outside. Maybe if you check your lineage there could be a lot of inbreeding. There's a lot of that in my family.
Didnt i just show you a tuna video made by my own MJ family and the tuna company out of many based in puntland. The thing you dont get is that this taboo is a localized thing in south central somalia . Hartis and Dir do not have that taboo of eating fish and infact they love eating fish and most of them by the coast are actual fishers. Some of My family were fishers and sailors.

Guys, I think we need to abandon Somalia as a diaspora, cut off all the remittances for 20 years and see what happens because the future doesn't look bright at all. In the meantime, we will take the positive aspects of our culture which can appeal to the upcoming 3rd generation in the West so it will not be lost in the carnage that is *******a.
*******a? :qri8gs7:Typical self loathing response,:mjlaugh:
 
Perhaps the North was saved from this because they were believed to have been Nestorian Christians before converting to Islam.
maybe it has to do with the north/western believing in Ebbe instead of waaq.:kobeok:

The guy is trying to argue that nomads are inferior uncivilized creatures and all that bull.
At the same time he just completly ignores every refutation i give him and acts like the clans that werent nomads that engage in other practices werent and the nomads that engaged in sailing tradingg, fishing and textile wood work isnt somali culture as well.

Even tho nomads live stock industry is what boosting somalias economy.

This guy practically traded his own humanity for modernity which is just a technological state and thinks that constitutes to civilized behavior.:pachah1:
 
Repost of what i said and you said

What the f*ck, they are more civilized than the average pastoral Somali. All they do is farm, and they need to breed because they are agriculturists.

Civilization cannot be defined by the height of tall buildings, but only by the humanity between human beings. The word Civilized is often muddied with modernity. Modernity is a technological state not a status on humanity. Technological accomplishment have no connection to social development which constitutes civilized behavior. Western Fellating Qaxootis have redefined civilization to continuously point away from glorifying Somalis in any respect. They have even have borrowed these mangled terms to define themselves. The civil conduct between people in the poorest nomadic regions of Somalia are far more civilized than the heartless inner cities of Europe and America. The way in which neighbors care and interact with each other, looking after each others children is Somali humanity. Families responsibility to collectively share economic burdens is humanity. Modernity only describes the technologies which one uses. And often because of the glaring lights of the Western cities of the dammed.....

The ignorant Qaxootis trade modernity for humanity and think they are making progress.

 
Oh the ignorant arrogance of Western bootyclappers

Europeans have been firm in holding up themselves as creators of civilization: That only when people left Africa did civilization come into existence. This is done by doing exactly what the Romans did before, by defining civilization to include their traits, habits, and defining everyone else's on the outside of those virtues: the Greeks did it with the Persians despite being at a lower level of social-technological development. Hence despite all the sophistication of some "barbarian" tribes, they were still barbaric in Romes eyes. Civilization defined by the conquer is suspect. US foreign policy, like Roman foreign policy, like all foreign policies in antiquity uses these terms to seperate them from the other. It has no other serious purpose but in foreign policy.


 
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