Participants
SOMALIA
Hussien Abdulkadir Kassim, Minister of Mineral and Water Resources
Ambassador Abudllahi Adu Addou (DC) Abdurahman Jama Barre, Director General, MU, Mohamed Mohamud, Counselor
UNITED STATES
The Secretary
Under Secretary Habib
Acting Assistant Secretary Seelye Frank Wisner (Notetaker)
TIME: October 8, 1976 3:45 p.m.
PLACE: Secretary's apartment at the Waldorf-Astoria, New York
KISSINGER: What does "Acting Foreign Minister" mean?
KASSIM: I am the Minister for Minerals and Water, but I have represented the Government at a number of international conferences .
ADDOU: He is the de facto Foreign Minister.
KISSINGER: How long have you been in New York?
KASSIM: Over two weeks. In a few days I will return home, but. I may not go straight back. I may stop en route. KISSINGER: It sounds like you have already made your mind up to stop.
KASSIM: I try to take care of the interests of my country and do so without fanfare.
KISSINGER: For a medium-sized country, you make a lot of news.
KASSIM: It all depends on the way the wind blows. Is it we who make the news or others who create conditions that force us to act?
KISSINGER: You should see me when I am trying to make news.
ADDOU: With the press following you so closely; you always make news.
KISSINGER: What is the state of our relations?
KASSIM: I would like to comment on that. I believe there is room for improvement.
KISSINGER: I agree with you.
KASSIM: Yes, there is room for improvement. You made a good point during your toast at lunch. You are learning about Africa.
KISSINGER: I have learned a lot from watching African politics. You Somalis are rough. I do not mean that as a criticism, but you play tough internal politics.
KASSIM: We speak our hearts and minds.
KISSINGER: I don't believe that the African states as a group are hostile, but if you look at the actions of the Somali Government, you can hardly judge them to be non- aligned. On almost every international issue you oppose us. We can't be wrong all the time. The law of averages does not work that way.KASSIM: From our point of view, Somalia and the United States should have relations which are devoid of hostile feelings.
On specific questions or policies, a matter of judgment enters in and not all our expressions are hostile. Had you not felt hostility, we would not have reacted. We believe we are non-aligned.
KISSINGER: We are not against non-alignment. Every African state is non-aligned except possibly for Angola. Fifteen thousand foreign troops present a powerful argument for taking sides. While you say there is no hostility on the part of Somalia, you disagree with us regularly and sometimes you work against us.
KASSIM: That is not an unfair picture but it is an incomplete one. We follow the actions of the United States as they affect us and
of the Somali nation is at stake. Your actions have not
always indicated neutrality.
KISSINGER: Would you give me an example?
KASSIM: Somalia has had an unfortunate colonial past.
Even before Somalia became independent, you-had pacts with Ethiopia. We have seen arms flow to Ethiopia which we - believe to be detrimental to the good relations between Somalia and Ethiopia . We believe our relations can be our region. For us the existence improved, but the arms you send and the propaganda you make do not help. We saw the statement by your Secretary of Defense.
KISSINGER: Why do we think that you have more military equipment than Ethiopia?
KASSIM: That is wrong. Ethiopia has more strength than we do. You force us to build up. We do not see you playing a role in finding a solution.
KISSINGER: You want a part of Ethiopia.
KASSIM: No, we want freedom for the part of Ethiopia which belongs to our people.
KISSINGER: Is that part of Ethiopia inhabited by Somalis and when did it join Ethiopia?
KASSIM: The Ethiopians took the southern portion of
their country which was inhabited exclusively by Somalis
in 1884. Until 1960 Ethiopians were present in small administrative and military groups. Now they have reinforced their control and the situation is different.
KISSINGER: So you will be hostile until you obtain the rest of your territory.
KASSIM: The other way around. We do not renounce the rights of our people and our nation. We suffer from a colonial situation.
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