Conservatives Vs Socialist Talkin Points

[DR OSMAN]

Conservative talking point is the following.

1. Small weak govt with strong private market
2. More state right, a ceromonial federal govt
3. Low taxes and tax breaks to the wealthy
4. Social morality based on bible
5. Strong security and strong borders

Socialist Talkin Points

1. Strong central govt and weaker private markets
2. High taxes on the wealthy to stop 'offshoring' and redistribute to social services
3. Higher wages/conditions for the middle class
4. Believes in a safety net for the poor around basics 'housing, health, food' which they deem as 'human rights'. Ideally wants poor people income to cover those basics safely not left to 'market' to decide.
5. Social morality is guided by human right and freedoms
6. Pro immigration saying their birth rate is low and it fosters market growth

The right cry a strong govt will lead to corruption and power abuses. Screams people should help themselves with no 'safety net' policy. The left cry socialize 'needs' and privatize only 'wants and desires'. They also cry the right want to privatize profits but socialize 'losses' thru govt bail outs.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Their foreign policy is identical tho from what I observed. Even their security policy. I think these things are decided by their institutions not political parties, nothing else can explain why it's identical always and static.

 

[anon2]

Doctor I think you are looking at Conservative and Socialist through a western lens, many socialist states of the past and present (Vietnam, China, DPRK etc) have a lot of values, perspectives, principles and rules are what the west would consider conservative.

I guess you could argue China and Vietnam are State Capitalism but the lines are blurred when it comes to State Capitalism and Socialism sometimes. The government will help you start your business and "fund" your projects/business but they will be a "co-owner". I think this is why many Chinese tech companies are successful, they have the guiding hand of the government, strangely enough competition is also present because the government will support the best product for export.

This system could work in the 3rd world very well, Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Gaddafi Libya had similar elements, they however had massive Oil revenues to fund them. Iraq was able to launch their own satellite into space and develop a space program. Libya was nearly able to develop nuclear weapons. These two countries were total dictatorships and wanted "external" security before internal security because they were surrounded by threats, this what lead to their downfall. China did the (after securing tibet and uyghur lands) and closed off to the world, they created nuclear weapons to make sure no one could interfere with them then switched to a state capitalist system under deng to ensure maximum development

 

[DR OSMAN]

Doctor I think you are looking at Conservative and Socialist through a western lens, many socialist states of the past and present (Vietnam, China, DPRK etc) have a lot of values, perspectives, principles and rules are what the west would consider conservative.

I guess you could argue China and Vietnam are State Capitalism but the lines are blurred when it comes to State Capitalism and Socialism sometimes. The government will help you start your business and "fund" your projects/business but they will be a "co-owner". I think this is why many Chinese tech companies are successful, they have the guiding hand of the government, strangely enough competition is also present because the government will support the best product for export.

This system could work in the 3rd world very well, Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Gaddafi Libya had similar elements, they however had massive Oil revenues to fund them. Iraq was able to launch their own satellite into space and develop a space program. Libya was nearly able to develop nuclear weapons. These two countries were total dictatorships and wanted "external" security before internal security because they were surrounded by threats, this what lead to their downfall. China did the (after securing tibet and uyghur lands) and closed off to the world, they created nuclear weapons to make sure no one could interfere with them then switched to a state capitalist system under deng to ensure maximum development

Your very knowledgable about different political models. I don't deny we need to 'review' every successful system, see what can be applied locally or 'tweaked' to somali characteristics or possibly even taking the best bits from all models for a super effective model.

But we must disregard this strong man weak system issue in africa(maybe only study it so we can eliminate their failures). We can't rely on people who are not perfect or have personal interests.

 

[anon2]

Your very knowledgable about different political models. I don't deny we need to 'review' every successful system, see what can be applied locally or 'tweaked' to somali characteristics or possibly even taking the best bits from all models for a super effective model.

But we must disregard this strong man weak system issue in africa(maybe only study it so we can eliminate their failures). We can't rely on people who are not perfect or have personal interests.

Do you think State Capitalism can work in Somalia? For example if Puntland took part ownership in all industries to limited monopolization and ensure fair prices for customers/consumers, also invest in projects and business created by giving them land or even buying land for them like Siyaad?

I think a public ledger on a website to show funds and where they are allocated would be good too, this will stop corruption and unnecessary spending

 

[Keep it a boqol]

Do you think State Capitalism can work in Somalia? For example if Puntland took part ownership in all industries to limited monopolization and ensure fair prices for customers/consumers, also invest in projects and business created by giving them land or even buying land for them like Siyaad?

I think a public ledger on a website to show funds and where they are allocated would be good too, this will stop corruption and unnecessary spending

What does being a “co owner” as the government of a private industry it helped kickstart entail? Executive decision making? Percentage of profits? Stocks and shares?

 

[anon2]

What does being a “co owner” as the government of a private industry it helped kickstart entail? Executive decision making? Percentage of profits? Stocks and shares?

Profits/Shares, it would be a very small share but the state would help mitigate corruption and help mitigate monopolization. I think sectors like money transfers, telecom, ISPs. electricity etc would need this in places like Somalia to regulate them since they operate like Mafias with every company securing their own "area" and profiting while most likely avoiding paying direct taxes to the gov.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

Profits/Shares, it would be a very small share but the state would help mitigate corruption and help mitigate monopolization. I think sectors like money transfers, telecom, ISPs. electricity etc would need this in places like Somalia to regulate them since they operate like Mafias with every company securing their own "area" and profiting while most likely avoiding paying direct taxes to the gov.

Yes I agree espcially telecom. And your right monopolization where the company is more powerful then the government is not a good thing. A famous case study is rockafellor and standard oil. The epitome of a tycoon. The government had to step in with laws and regulations

However like what mao said Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. For smaller companies this could work in Puntland but for the really large telecom companies you would def need a capable cooperative army to get this companies to comply peaceful without their mercenaries.

 

[anon2]

Yes I agree espcially telecom. And your right monopolization where the company is more powerful then the government is not a good thing. A famous case study is rockafellor and standard oil. The epitome of a tycoon. The government had to step in with laws and regulations

However like what mao said Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. For smaller companies this could work in Puntland but for the really large telecom companies you would def need a capable cooperative army to get this companies to comply peaceful without their mercenaries.

Yeah I don't think this should apply to small companies or stores. Just the big ones who make all the money. Also that's a good video I've seen it before brother

 

[Keep it a boqol]

Yeah I don't think this should apply to small companies or stores. Just the big ones who make all the money. Also that's a good video I've seen it before brother

Would you want the government to fun buisness that have massive potential right? That’s what China does?

 

[anon2]

Would you want the government to fun buisness that have massive potential right? That’s what China does?

I think China is complex, they are moving towards more "fun" tech businesses now. I personally would want the government to fund as many businesses as possible that will be manufacture and be more export driven. It can be fun or not, I am surprised no one in Somalia has taken advantage toy or textile market yet. You can make factories for these things easily. Imagine becoming the number 1 country in Africa for textiles? That's what Bangladesh did, however it's not regulated but imagine if the previous model I suggested was applied and factories all over were built by Puntland for example and investors bought tools? It could also help tackle massive unemployment and create a brand new industry that's needed worldwide.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

I think China is complex, they are moving towards more "fun" tech businesses now. I personally would want the government to fund as many businesses as possible that will be manufacture and be more export driven. It can be fun or not, I am surprised no one in Somalia has taken advantage toy or textile market yet. You can make factories for these things easily. Imagine becoming the number 1 country in Africa for textiles? That's what Bangladesh did, however it's not regulated but imagine if the previous model I suggested was applied and factories all over were built by Puntland for example and investors bought tools? It could also help tackle massive unemployment and create a brand new industry that's needed worldwide.

Funny that you mention that, I was thinking a great agricultural source that Somalia can grow is hemp. Hemp is a pretty multiuse plant and you can make clothes from it, which is sweat wicking, sustainable ,durable and comfortable for hot climates. It’s also super easy to grow even in arid deserts. We can make a whole industry with that along with help textiles and other manufacturing like machinery once we have cheap power.