Colonisation of Somalia was a good thing.

[Rocca Littorio]

Read "Africa's first democrats" to be educated.

 

[Kratos]

You're a fully grown Somali man and you think being someone else's property was a good thing? Because that's what being a colony means.

My post was a retrospective analysis of the colonial period of south Somalia. The whole point of it was that although we were colonised, the net result of the colonisation was positive.
I pretty much summed it up in the end by saying that upon independence, we were in a very good position. Our language, culture, genetic make-up and religion were left largely intact while gaining a well-developed capital, a standardised writing script and a solid foundation from which to build a state. Hats off to the taliyaani

I'm not calling for re-colonisation though.

 

[Kratos]

I think the OP needs to go back and read historical accounts about Italian colonisation.

1) There were missionaries
2) They destroyed most of old Mogadishu
3) A lot of Somalis (especially those in SL) were put into missionary school and made gaalo
4) They ruthlessly dealt with Somalis and tried to put Somalis in the most subservient positions

The most abhorrent thing they tried to do was to try control of Somalis after independence.

Luckily, the SYL cut off ties with Britain immediately but it took until 1972 for Somalia to shake off the Italians.

Yes that was the evil British. I vilified them in my post for good reason. The Italians may have had missionaries but they still retained Islam as the official religion. Also the infrastructure developments they made were far greater than anything they destroyed.

 

[Prince Abubu]

My post was a retrospective analysis of the colonial period of south Somalia. The whole point of it was that although we were colonised, the net result of the colonisation was positive.
I pretty much summed it up in the end by saying that upon independence, we were in a very good position. Our language, culture, genetic make-up and religion were left largely intact while gaining a well-developed capital, a standardised writing script and a solid foundation from which to build a state. Hats off to the taliyaani

I'm not calling for re-colonisation though.

I would rather Somalia remains in anarchy for 1000 years, then live one year under colonialism.

 

[Rocca Littorio]

Yes that was the evil British. I vilified them in my post for good reason. The Italians may have had missionaries but they still retained Islam as the official religion. Also the infrastructure developments they made were far greater than anything they destroyed.

Africa's first democrats is based on the Italians.

Its a good read and will open your eyes on how fucked up the Italians were.

 

[Kratos]

I would rather Somalia remains in anarchy for 1000 years, then live one year under colonialism.

Don't worry, the way things are going now it looks like Somalia will remain in anarchy until yawmul-qiyamah or until we get annexed.

Africa's first democrats is based on the Italians.

Its a good read and will open your eyes on how fucked up the Italians were.

I've heard of that book but I've never read it. I think I'll give it a look, thanks.

 

[roble]

Yes it was



They did. They settled the whole of the South. At one point 40% of Muqdisho was populated by Italians. They left behind lots of infrastructure and educational facilities. They built roads, schools and hospitals, all of which were functional upon independence. Also unlike Somalia, Kenya and Congo didn't have any pre-colonial states, kingdoms or empires. The interior of both Kenya and Congo were only visited by Arab slave traders prior to the arrival of the Europeans.

can you name how many schools and hospitals the Italians left behind,,its nothing close to Kenya,uganda,sudan,nigeria,ivory coast etc..these were far far ahead. the fact is SL were better educated and had more functional education system, what the Italians left behind is 2 sq miles around the old parliament building like shabelle hotel and cuacio del sue hotel. you absolutely mistaken. said that overall there was no infrastructure or colleges to speak of in whole country in 1960 be it north or south. Mogadishu was little town in 1960 and the 40% Italians at most were couple thousand. Ask your grandpa you might get better insight.

 

[embarassing]

I legit think majority of the posters on here are Ajnabis. No other explanation for the bat-shit nonsense they come out with.

Most likely

 

[Kratos]

can you name how many schools and hospitals the Italians left behind,,its nothing close to Kenya,uganda,sudan,nigeria,ivory coast etc..these were far far ahead. the fact is SL were better educated and had more functional education system, what the Italians left behind is 2 sq miles around the old parliament building like shabelle hotel and cuacio del sue hotel. you absolutely mistaken. said that overall there was no infrastructure or colleges to speak of in whole country in 1960 be it north or south. Mogadishu was little town in 1960 and the 40% Italians at most were couple thousand. Ask your grandpa you might get better insight.

British SL was a shithole compared to Muqdisho. The British realised the huge gap in development between the two territories and tried to rectify it:

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/14.htm

Basically most of the schools, hospitals and roads that existed in Muqdisho upon independence where built by the Italians. I don't know how many there were, but whatever where there, were not built by Somalis. The 40% figure is from wiki. The original source comes from Italian accounts I'm pretty sure. Muqdisho was not a little town, it was a well developed city (compared to other African cities)

 

[Kratos]

can you name how many schools and hospitals the Italians left behind,,its nothing close to Kenya,uganda,sudan,nigeria,ivory coast etc..these were far far ahead. the fact is SL were better educated and had more functional education system, what the Italians left behind is 2 sq miles around the old parliament building like shabelle hotel and cuacio del sue hotel. you absolutely mistaken. said that overall there was no infrastructure or colleges to speak of in whole country in 1960 be it north or south. Mogadishu was little town in 1960 and the 40% Italians at most were couple thousand. Ask your grandpa you might get better insight.

Also Kenya is different, they are essentially a British creation. The history of Kenya begins in 1888 with the arrival of the British. Before then the only people with any form of settlement where the Mombasa/Malindi city-states which were established with the influence of Omani traders. These people are now langaabs compared to Kikuyus and other dominant Kenyaatis. The British created Kenya. The Italians didn't create Somalia or Muqdisho, they just came and pimped Muqdisho up.

 

[Rocca Littorio]

Also Kenya is different, they are essentially a British creation. The history of Kenya begins in 1888 with the arrival of the British. Before then the only people with any form of settlement where the Mombasa/Malindi city-states which were established with the influence of Omani traders. These people are now langaabs compared to Kikuyus and other dominant Kenyaatis. The British created Kenya. The Italians didn't create Somalia or Muqdisho, they just came and pimped Muqdisho up.

I agree with you in that it was easier for the Italians to develop Somalia as it already had some framework for development. However, the development (as with most colonial developments)were of areas of benefit to the Italians.

Mogadishu was already a planned out city prior to Italian colonisation, the funding provided by the Italians allowed it to become one Africa's major cities.

 

[Kratos]

Fun fact: The guy who created Ferrero SpA; the company which produces kinder chocolate, nutella and ferrero rochers, was an Italian settler in Somalia. He used to sell pastries to Italian troops

https://www.nutellaworldbook.com/50-years

 

[roble]

British SL was a shithole compared to Muqdisho. The British realised the huge gap in development between the two territories and tried to rectify it:
View attachment 59147
http://countrystudies.us/somalia/14.htm

Basically most of the schools, hospitals and roads that existed in Muqdisho upon independence where built by the Italians. I don't know how many there were, but whatever where there, were not built by Somalis. The 40% figure is from wiki. The original source comes from Italian accounts I'm pretty sure. Muqdisho was not a little town, it was a well developed city (compared to other African cities)

am not qabiil or regional nationalistic but ask your elders the education gap between the north and the south from 1960 up. the north were far ahead and were the intelligentsia of the county until siyad barre marginalized thm in the 80s. go talk to some older people cos am not comn back to deal with ignorance blended with qabiil.sorry.

 

[Kratos]

I agree with you in that it was easier for the Italians to develop Somalia as it already had some framework for development. However, the development (as with most colonial developments)were of areas of benefit to the Italians.

Mogadishu was already a planned out city prior to Italian colonisation, the funding provided by the Italians allowed it to become one Africa's major cities.

Yeah that was basically what my main point was. I wasn't saying we should be grateful for colonialism or calling to be re-colonised, but that in the end the net effects of colonialism was positive. We gained more than we lost. The Italians where nowhere near as cruel as any of the other colonial powers and our culture, heritage and religion remained largely intact, albeit with a few loan words and new dishes. But we obtained one hell of a capital. Unlike many African countries all the problems that plagued us after independence were entirely self-inflicted. (except for the border divisions created by the British. But then again Siad Barre fucked up when trying to retake Somali galbeed)

 

[Kratos]

am not qabiil or regional nationalistic but ask your elders the education gap between the north and the south from 1960 up. the north were far ahead and were the intelligentsia of the county until siyad barre marginalized thm in the 80s. go talk to some older people cos am not comn back to deal with ignorance blended with qabiil.sorry.

What's your sources?. I didn't mention qabiil or regional politcs either. The quote I posted was from the US library of congress.

 

[GBTarmy]

am not qabiil or regional nationalistic but ask your elders the education gap between the north and the south from 1960 up. the north were far ahead and were the intelligentsia of the county until siyad barre marginalized thm in the 80s. go talk to some older people cos am not comn back to deal with ignorance blended with qabiil.sorry.

Actually, the most educated people were from the Northeast hence why they dominated the game until the coup.

 

[Crow]

Title is a bit provocative and this is a long read, but hear me out:



Colonisation by European powers is generally regarded as a bad thing and a lot of African countries claim that their current problems are long-term consequences inherited from their colonial history. However, that can't really be said for Somalia. The British technically didn't colonise Somaliland (mainly due to disinterest in the region) and have a largely negligible historical presence there; except for maybe Berbera. The Italians only colonised the South but signed treaties with the Majerteen Sultanates. Although the territory of the Majerteen was annexed by 1927, they still retained a high degree of autonomy and governed themselves and it was only for a relatively short amount of time (14 years). The Italians also didn't settle in these regions or build anything there. Compare that to Ethiopia who actually lost the second war to Italy and were occupied for 6 years, but are still credited with having avoided colonisation even though the Italians began settlement and the construction of significant infrastructure projects.

The Italians also didn't really do anything that bad either. The reason why European colonialism is universally viewed as such a terrible thing is because people associate it with the notoriously infamous type of colonialism that occurred in places such as the Belgian Congo and the atrocities that were committed there. Enforced labour (slavery), ethnic genocide, cultural and linguistic genocide, as well as religious imperialism just to name a few. None of these things happened in Somalia. The Italians only enslaved the Bantus. But then again, Benadiris and some southern ethnic Somalis like Abgaal and Bimaal had Bantu slaves anyway. They were only upholding the status quo of the region at that time. Have you ever wondered why there aren't that many christian Somalis? It's because the Italians didn't really try to enforce Christianity. In fact, they left Islam alone as the state religion. They built a cathedral but they were the only ones who attended it. Muqdisho had the highest standard of living out of all the African colonies, for both the colonists and the local inhabitants. In contrast, the Congolese were getting severely karbashed during this time period.

They even supported Greater Somalia. They invaded British Somaliland and liberated Somali galbeed from the Amxaar and established the Somali governate (as part of Italian East Africa). This is the only time in history Somaliweyn has been united. Then, when the SYL was formed and the British took back Somaliland and the Italians lost the second world war along with their colonies, they were made to sign an agreement which gave them trusteeship over "Italian Somalia" under the condition that it would gain independence in 10 years. They accepted the terms and unlike the bastard British who dismantled everything they built in their former colonies (railways and other infrastructure in India) before leaving, the Italians did no such thing. Infrastructure and educational development actually increased significantly during this 10 year period. This culminated in the emergence of Africa's first democrats upon independence.

Overall I would say that the Italians did a good job . I'm not saying that they were perfect and had noble intentions. Of course they weren't. But the positives outweigh the negatives. When Somalia gained independence we were in a very good position to build a fantastic nation. We had a democratically elected government, access to higher education, one of the most developed capitals in all of sub-Saharan Africa and a relatively homogeneous population. We even had af-Soomali as our official language. Compare this to some of the other countries in Africa who have a million different official languages or the ones who use English or French in government and education. Things should not have gone as wrong as they did. The only negative thing we inherited are the stupid borders but that's because of the bastard British and the greedy Amxaar and Kenyaati; our true enemies. Maybe if the Italians won the 2nd world war then Somaliweyn would be united today.

Too long, didn't read. I just clicked this thread to say f*ck you.

 

[roble]

What's your sources?. I didn't mention qabiil or regional politcs either. The quote I posted was from the US library of congress.

90% of Mogadishu was built by Somalis. It was not a city before 1960. almost all the roads,water system,big hotels,colleges etc was built by siyad Barre, the most beautiful neighborhoods were the proberty owned and built by ordinary citizens. ask whoeva elderly near you. Mogadishu was a little town if you can call that in 1960.only the downtown area of about 2 sq miles had any semblance of semi modern neighborhood,and that's were the few Italians lived..as per everyone I asked.

 

[Kratos]

Too long, didn't read. I just clicked this thread to say f*ck you.

Lazy. You should have read it. You saying "f*ck you" doesn't benefit anyone. You accumulate sins and my views don't get criticised.

90% of Mogadishu was built by Somalis. It was not a city before 1960. almost all the roads,water system,big hotels,colleges etc was built by siyad Barre, the most beautiful neighborhoods were the proberty owned and built by ordinary citizens. ask whoeva elderly near you. Mogadishu was a little town if you can call that in 1960.only the downtown area of about 2 sq miles had any semblance of semi modern neighborhood,and that's were the few Italians lived..as per everyone I asked.

Fair enough bro if that's what your elders taught you

 

[Madaxgaab]

This is one disgusting thread
Cant belive op is trying to convince us colonization was a good thing .
Dhabodhillif waste man .
OP is the type of niggar that would volunteer to polish colonial soldiers shoes .no spine having ass dhabodhilif.