CIA: Israel participation in the Somali Civil war

[Barkhadle1520]

From Kismayo to Saylac, the entire region survives on US aid contributions. You can't say no to your lifeline. Not a proxy, more akin to a puppet state. Everything is for sale in the current Somalia.

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Adooniimo wallahi

Dadkaan ayaa donaya ine sharaf na baran

 

[Idilinaa]

Did you guys know the US trains SNA troops? I think Somalia may also be a proxy of the US Wait a minute..

From Kismayo to Saylac, the entire region survives on US aid contributions. You can't say no to your lifeline. Not a proxy, more akin to a puppet state. Everything is for sale in the current Somalia.

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False equivalence is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. U.S. training SNA troops under formal agreements ≠ being created, funded, armed, and directed by a neighboring enemy to wage war on your own country.


And as for aid most regional states like Puntland and even Somaliland run on domestic revenue and private sector strength, not handouts. If anything, they’ve been more self-sustaining than the warlord groups y’all are trying to whitewash.


But sure, keep comparing security partnerships to cold-war proxy militias. Sounds legit.

 

[Farah717]

Yes, internal accountability is crucial. No society can heal or rebuild without first looking inward and addressing its own flaws and failures.

But we also can’t pretend we operated in a vacuum. External forces absolutely shaped and in many ways inflamed our internal divisions.

We didn’t colonize ourselves . We didn’t fund and arm warlords. We didn’t create proxy militias through neighboring states.

So when people say “we destroyed ourselves,” it becomes a dangerously incomplete truth , one that erases decades of external manipulation and foreign intervention.

Self-reflection doesn’t mean self-blame at the expense of context. Accountability and historical accuracy must go hand in hand.

And recent history shows that when foreign interference is dialed back like in the Ogaden after 2018, or in broader Somali regional spaces in recent decades, Somalis don’t collapse into chaos. They build. They organize. They reconcile. Given the space and sovereignty to do so, they rise.

Somalis divided themselves on the basis of clan. And destroyed their country. Sure we lost the Ogaden war every country loses wars and foreign governments fund this vacuum of instability we created for ourselves. That doesnt mean people go out and kill, loot and destroy each other based on their clans. You seem to be trying so hard to bring others into the blame but the first step to progress is accept personal accountability otherwise, we will never move on.. And the fact is Somalis destroyed themselves.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

False equivalence is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. U.S. training SNA troops under formal agreements ≠ being created, funded, armed, and directed by a neighboring enemy to wage war on your own country.


And as for aid most regional states like Puntland and even Somaliland run on domestic revenue and private sector strength, not handouts. If anything, they’ve been more self-sustaining than the warlord groups y’all are trying to whitewash.


But sure, keep comparing security partnerships to cold-war proxy militias. Sounds legit.

Wage war on your own country ???

Do you honestly hear yourself. You really are dumb as shit, the SNM was fighting against Darod and your uncle, not the country. Stop making it look like something it was not

 

[Barkhadle1520]

 

[Idilinaa]

It was a liberation movement, but the people that were on the ground doing the fighting were muslims, and they were mujahideen no doubt about that

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This is what your uncle gave to muslims, without mentioning the burning of scholars
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The SNM was not perfect, but without the SNM what would we be today ? No matter how much you slander them this will remain a fact

They sound more like Khawarij than mujahideen , how exactly are they different from groups like Al-Shabaab or ISIS? Declaring Muslims apostates, waging war on fellow Muslims, while conveniently allying with actual enemies of Islam like the Derg a regime that literally ''burned Qur’ans, destroyed mosques, and slaughtered Muslim civilians.''

What Siad Barre said about them still rings true:

“𝗜𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗮 𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗺𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱𝗻’𝘁 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗱𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝘆𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 own houses, their families, their children. How is any national political aim fight to kill? begin to kill his family? So they are terrorists armed and organized by foreigners''




As for the lazy smear that Siad Barre was an “apostate” it’s pretty rich, considering he declared Islam the state religion in the constitution, built mosques, supported Qur’anic education, performed Umrah, and consistently elevated Muslim leadership.


If that’s your idea of a “Qur’an-burner,” then what do you call those who allied with the Derg and shelled Somali Muslim cities on their behalf?


Let’s not rewrite history to dress up proxy warfare and sectarian militancy as some kind of noble jihad. It's far from it.

There is everything to be proud in the people that fought for our liberation, in contrary what can you guys be proud of except raping and killings ?

Rape , killings and murders happened. SNM even massacre known today as the Dhila and Borama

Dila Massacre in 1991

The Dila Massacre in 1991, the atrocity in issue, was a sequence of mass executions committed by members of the Isaaq clan.

www.kormeeraha.com

Borama Massacre: The Right To Remember

Borama Massacre: the right to remember the victims and the killings perpetrated by the SNM militia is still hampered by Somaliland leaders.

www.kormeeraha.com

The behaved much like the USC , SDDF. They even butchered eachother when they made infighting.

We all know how and who founded Puntland and FGS as well lmao

Oh really? Did you also know how Somaliland was formed in Ethiopia, and how the local Isaaq chiefs accused the SNM of plunging the north into utter desolation and chaos, all while they were comfortably living abroad? They even replaced grassroots elders with random people they found to support them.

Also why should I care about what happened to Reer Ogaden lmao, we both know what they were up to in waqoyi

They were innocent displaced refugees and the rest were on the front line fighting an oppressive regime that actually wanted to annihilate Muslims.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

They sound more like Khawarij than mujahideen , how exactly are they different from groups like Al-Shabaab or ISIS? Declaring Muslims apostates, waging war on fellow Muslims, while conveniently allying with actual enemies of Islam like the Derg a regime that literally ''burned Qur’ans, destroyed mosques, and slaughtered Muslim civilians.''

What Siad Barre said about them still rings true:

“𝗜𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗮 𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗺𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱𝗻’𝘁 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗱𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝘆𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 own houses, their families, their children. How is any national political aim fight to kill? begin to kill his family? So they are terrorists armed and organized by foreigners''

Ive never seen this level of gaslighting and hypocrisy, ever.

From now on I'm secessionist wallahi billahi, rather be dead than share a country with you people

Honestly thank you cause you made me look more into this topic, so much stuff I didn't know and the more I read about it the more I begin to understand why landers hate you guys more than oromos or any other ethiopians, truly a disgusting bunch of hypocrites

 

[livinlavish]

Ive never seen this level of gaslighting and hypocrisy, ever.

From now on I'm secessionist wallahi billahi, rather be dead than share a country with you people

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Honestly thank you cause you made me look more into this topic, so much stuff I didn't know and the more I read about it the more I begin to understand why landers hate you guys more than oromos or any other ethiopians, truly a disgusting bunch of hypocrites

When you say “you guys” who exactly are you referring to? The kacaanist supporters or everyone in Somalia?

 

[reer]

i really doubt @Idilinaa is marehan. just someone who prefers the kacaan era over amisom era.

@Barkhadle1520 'sorry' for not supporting pro ethiopian rebels. mohamed siad barre >> amisom.

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

i really doubt @Idilinaa is marehan. just someone who prefers the kacaan era over amisom era.

@Barkhadle1520 'sorry' for not supporting pro ethiopian rebels. mohamed siad barre >> amisom.

Nobody knows @Idilinaa tribe tbh but everybody can agree the kacaan era is much better then the last 34 years of bullshit

 

[reer]

Nobody knows @Idilinaa tribe tbh but everybody can agree the kacaan era is much better then the last 34 years of bullshit

idilnaa was REALLY defending the icu. i highly doubt idilnaa is marehan.

 

[Idilinaa]

Ive never seen this level of gaslighting and hypocrisy, ever.

From now on I'm secessionist wallahi billahi, rather be dead than share a country with you people

View attachment 365335

Honestly thank you cause you made me look more into this topic, so much stuff I didn't know and the more I read about it the more I begin to understand why landers hate you guys more than oromos or any other ethiopians, truly a disgusting bunch of hypocrites

Who exactly is “you guys”? Are you seriously assuming I’m pushing some pro Reer Ogaden narrative just because I pointed out they were ''innocent refugees'' and that somehow makes me one of them? Lmaoo. That’s some wild projection.


Those camps were full of innocent civilians mostly women, children, and elderly displaced by Mengistu’s ethnic cleansing and villagization campaign. And yes, SNM did attack those camps and massacre people who were completely unarmed.



The people SNM killed weren’t enemy combatants , they were labeled as such after the fact to justify war crimes. In reality, the real fighters were out facing the Derg on the battlefield, not hiding in refugee camps.

And then you call me a hypocrite?

Let’s say just for the sake of argument that I were Reer Ogaden. You supporting SNM would be no different than me supporting Abdi Iley and the Liyu Police, calling them 'liberators' and 'mujahideen' fighting kufr, despite how they brutalized Reer Ogaden and served as enforcers for the TPLF regime. That’s exactly what SNM did they didn’t point their guns at Ethiopia, they turned them on fellow Somalis.

The real hypocrisy is how quick you guys are to defend SNM not because of principles, but because of clan identity even when their actions mirrored those of the very warlords and militias you claim to oppose. That’s the difference. I support Somalis who act in the national interest regardless of clan. There are many Isaaqs, past and present, who stood for that. Maybe follow their example.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Who exactly is “you guys”? Are you seriously assuming I’m pushing some pro Reer Ogaden narrative just because I pointed out they were ''innocent refugees'' and that somehow makes me one of them? Lmaoo. That’s some wild projection.


Those camps were full of innocent civilians mostly women, children, and elderly displaced by Mengistu’s ethnic cleansing and villagization campaign. And yes, SNM did attack those camps and massacre people who were completely unarmed.



The people SNM killed weren’t enemy combatants , they were labeled as such after the fact to justify war crimes. In reality, the real fighters were out facing the Derg on the battlefield, not hiding in refugee camps.

And then you call me a hypocrite?

Let’s say just for the sake of argument that I were Reer Ogaden. You supporting SNM would be no different than me supporting Abdi Iley and the Liyu Police, calling them 'liberators' and 'mujahideen' fighting kufr, despite how they brutalized Reer Ogaden and served as enforcers for the TPLF regime. That’s exactly what SNM did they didn’t point their guns at Ethiopia, they turned them on fellow Somalis.

The real hypocrisy is how quick you guys are to defend SNM not because of principles, but because of clan identity even when their actions mirrored those of the very warlords and militias you claim to oppose. That’s the difference. I support Somalis who act in the national interest regardless of clan. There are many Isaaqs, past and present, who stood for that. Maybe follow their example.

Yeah and Siad and his troops were angels too liberating the Isaaq that were opressed by SNM

Its funny how in this whole conversation, not once have you mentioned what they did, you keep talking about the snm and avoiding any other topic about kacaan, painting him as this muslim somali hero and how everyone turned against him for no reason at all

Really degenerate and weird behavior but theres nothing to expect from you people in the first place

 

[Idilinaa]

Yeah and Siad and his troops were angels too liberating the Isaaq that were opressed by SNM

Its funny how in this whole conversation, not once have you mentioned what they did, you keep talking about the snm and avoiding any other topic about kacaan, painting him as this muslim somali hero and how everyone turned against him for no reason at all

Really degenerate and weird behavior but theres nothing to expect from you people in the first place

No one said Siad Barre or his government was perfect. You’re debating ghosts if you think I’m here defending every action of the state or denying that there were excesses.
But this wasn’t a contest of angels , it’s about historical honesty. Acknowledging SNM's war crimes and their collaboration with a hostile foreign regime doesn’t erase any wrongdoings of Kacaan. Both can be true.

What’s telling is that whenever SNM’s atrocities are brought up massacres of refugees, targeting of civilians, their silence during Mengistu’s oppression of Muslims , people like you immediately deflect instead of engaging. You’re not defending justice, you’re defending a faction.


And that’s the real ‘weird behavior.’"

 

[Idilinaa]

Somalis divided themselves on the basis of clan. And destroyed their country. Sure we lost the Ogaden war every country loses wars and foreign governments fund this vacuum of instability we created for ourselves. That doesnt mean people go out and kill, loot and destroy each other based on their clans. You seem to be trying so hard to bring others into the blame but the first step to progress is accept personal accountability otherwise, we will never move on.. And the fact is Somalis destroyed themselves.

Somalis didn’t inherently divide themselves along clan lines, nor do they function that way today. In fact, across the Horn, Somalis often cooperate, support one another, and build across lineage lines. The idea that Somalis are politically hardwired to destroy themselves via clan is an oversimplified myth.

Groups like the SSDF, SNM, and USC failed to garner real domestic support. That’s why they were based abroad in Ethiopia and elsewhere and only rose through foreign weapons, funding, and political backing. They didn’t lead movements through popular legitimacy but operated like Al-Shabaab does today: through coercion, extortion, and manipulation.

There’s a peer-reviewed study that sheds light on this exact misconception using data from the Ogaden region an area that includes Somalis of various clans, including Isaaq:

Political Identity as Temporal Collapse: Ethiopian Federalism and Contested Ogaden Histories

Abstract. Since the 1980s, analyses of African political identities have emphasized identity manipulation as a governance tool. In the Somali Horn of Afric

academic.oup.com

Drawing on fieldwork and archival research, we show that political struggles over Somalis’ integration with Ethiopia orient around Somali clanship, but that clanship is not a mechanical tool of mobilization, as it is often portrayed. We suggest that genealogical relatedness does not equate to political loyalty, but genealogical discourse provides a framework by which various actors reinterpret contemporary events by collapsing history into the present to imbue clan, ethnic, and national identities with political significance.

Questioning the automatic relationship between clanship and political mobilization, our article focuses on what we call ‘clan-talk’: assertions that imbue Somali clanship with political significance by attributing collective behaviour and political loyalties to clan identity.We show how political actors deploy narratives and stereotypes about clan politics to legitimize claims to ethnic leadership as well as inter-ethnic alliances.

Key takeaways:

Genealogy ≠ Political loyalty: Just because people share a clan doesn’t mean they support the same political agenda.

Clan is a political frame, not a cause: Political actors use ‘clan-talk’ to justify their power grabs or conflicts , not because clan truly drives political behavior, but because it’s an easy narrative tool.

So when we say “Somalis destroyed themselves,” that’s a dangerously reductive take. Yes, internal accountability matters , but real destruction came when external powers empowered warlords and armed factions who then preyed on their own. The collapse was manufactured, not natural.

Real progress starts with clarity, not recycled slogans.

 

[AbrahamFreedom]

What about this post gave u the impression that he’s “blaming others for our own failures”?

That post screams blaming others, this time, the dirty Yahuud. Somalis love to avoid accountability; it's a cultural trait to do so.

 

[Idilinaa]

That post screams blaming others, this time, the dirty Yahuud. Somalis love to avoid accountability; it's a cultural trait to do so.

The dominant discourse among Somalis today actually revolves around self-blame and “qabiil” finger-pointing so if anything, my stance is the exception, not the rule.

Calling it a "cultural trait" to avoid accountability is just lazy stereotyping.

I’m holding accountable both those who betrayed their country and the foreign actors who enabled and fueled the collapse. Israel was a consistent and strategic ally of Ethiopia that’s a historical fact, not a conspiracy theory.

If someone bombs your home and then arms your neighbor to attack your family, are you really “avoiding accountability” by pointing that out? Or are you just being honest about what happened? Let’s not confuse truth telling with deflection.

 

[AbrahamFreedom]

The USC, SNM (and I vaguely heard the SSDF) relied on Hawiyes, Isaaq and Majeerteens to give them part of their caydh money for rebel efforts. One of Aidid's older kids lived in a city near the US border and flew to I believe Ethiopia or Kenya (forgot which) to hand over the money collected. Totally shameless. Canadian taxpayer money was being used to fund the Somalia Civil War.

 

[AbrahamFreedom]

The dominant discourse among Somalis today actually revolves around self-blame and “qabiil” finger-pointing so if anything, my stance is the exception, not the rule.

Calling it a "cultural trait" to avoid accountability is just lazy stereotyping.

I’m holding accountable both those who betrayed their country and the foreign actors who enabled and fueled the collapse. Israel was a consistent and strategic ally of Ethiopia that’s a historical fact, not a conspiracy theory.

If someone bombs your home and then arms your neighbor to attack your family, are you really “avoiding accountability” by pointing that out? Or are you just being honest about what happened? Let’s not confuse truth telling with deflection.

No one is denying these rebel groups were foreign funded, armed or guided and any government should do what it takes to take them out. But did you know for example the SNM had little to no support by the locals until Barre indiscriminately bombed the northern cities and ramped up collective rape and murder? SNM was limited to guerilla warfare for much of it's existence. Barre is responsible for SNM succeeding and seceeding today. He is responsible for Somalia's state today. He was the leader and should have shown leadership in the national interest but his clannism and hatred got in the way. He could have taken the initially weak SNM out but he clearly had other plans.

 

[Idilinaa]

The USC, SNM (and I vaguely heard the SSDF) relied on Hawiyes, Isaaq and Majeerteens to give them part of their caydh money for rebel efforts. One of Aidid's older kids lived in a city near the US border and flew to I believe Ethiopia or Kenya (forgot which) to hand over the money collected. Totally shameless. Canadian taxpayer money was being used to fund the Somalia Civil War.

Most Somalis who lived outside Somalia during the 80s were actually a highly educated, highly skilled class of professionals. The bulk of them lived in the UAE, Saudi etc drawn there by the oil wealth. So no, they didn’t have caydh (welfare) money to send to rebels.

They sent remittances out of their hard-earned income to support their families back home mainly for poverty alleviation or relief efforts, not to fund civil war.

Also, caydh money doesn’t leave you with spare cash to send across continents to fuel rebel operations. That’s not how welfare works.

Why do you think the highest remittance senders are people living in the US, UAE, or parts of Africa? It’s because they actually have higher self-employment rates and are engaged in business or professional work,