Chinese Work Ethic

[The Oponian Guild]

that chinese road is what connect puntland to south and somaliland. they need massive investment to modernize. shows their skill and crafmanship.

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They didn’t build the Galkacyo to Bosaso part of the road though, that was done in the 30s by the Italian colonial government, the Chinese built the road that connected beledweyne to Galkacyo. I have it on good authority, I asked a cousin of mine one afternoon when we walking from suuq barwaqo to magaalada hoose.

but yes I agree those roads connect south Somalia with PL and bosaso port and are crucial to the economy of both states.

 

[Dagdag]

They didn’t build the Galkacyo to Bosaso part of the road though, that was done in the 30s by the Italian colonial government, the Chinese built the road that connected beledweyne to Galkacyo. I have it on good authority, I asked a cousin of mine one afternoon when we walking from suuq barwaqo to magaalada hoose.

but yes I agree those roads connect south Somalia with PL and bosaso port and are crucial to the economy of both states.

yes thats right. The chinese road is beletwayne to galkacyo to garowe to las canod then to Burco. It didnt go to Bosaso at all. It veers sharp to west at garowe towards somaliland. Its blue line looks like 7

 

[Idilinaa]

that chinese road is what connect puntland to south and somaliland. they need massive investment to modernize. shows their skill and crafmanship.

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Opposite end of spectrum are lazy countries like rich gulf oil countries that outsource everything and have very lazy native population. Have everything at disposable but cant be bothered

Are you trying to imply Somalis are lazy and outsourced the north to south road? Because your own source says there was hundreds of Somali construction workers that worked along side the Chinese who were there to transfer technical knowledge, skills and expertise.

''In this way, hundreds of Somali rose from unskilled to skilled workers in a short time''

''Right next to the residential camps to the Somali road construction workers were those of the Chinese''

So it was done in the spirit of collaborations and training not outsourcing. These same Somali workers went on to build and work on other road projects.

All road constructions in Somalia today are done by local construction companies and most of it is domestically funded. Somalis, has built major highways and corridors.

Gone through it before:

People really underestimate how impressive it is that Somalis are building infrastructure mostly with their own resources. Could Syria, for example, finance something like the Garacad port on their own? Highly doubtful.

Most road projects in Somalia are funded through local mechanisms like property taxes or contributions from businesses. They’re prioritized based on actual community needs , not top down donor plans:

She says: "Road constructions in Mogadishu is initiated by a committee that includes business people, religious scholars and civil society officials. This committee determines which roads need to be built based on community needs. Local business men are responsible for 50% of the funding. Property owners whose lands abuts the roads under construction contribute 15% with their share proportionate to their properties proximity to the road. The Banadir regional administration contributes the remaining 35%"


These are the kinds of grassroots projects being done , connecting neighborhoods, upgrading drainage systems, etc.

They're building nonstop just to keep up with the rapid pace of urban growth. Here's something from just 3 days ago:

Mogadishu Launches Major Road Project to Boost City Connectivity – Goobjoog English

en.goobjoog.com

Hargeisa, for example, completed 21 roads in just 17 months:

Somaliland: Hargeisa municipality has completed 21 roads within 17 months - SomalilandCurrent.com

By M.A. Egge The initiative of the Mayor of the capital city of Hargeisa Cllr. Abdikarim Ahmed Mooge and the efforts exerted by the town hall are unprecedented as far as infrastructure is concerned. Their palpable services are felt and are largescale beyond the historic road works. The local...

www.somalilandcurrent.com

And Puntland’s Highway Authority has ongoing and completed roadworks well documented:

Ongoing Projects - PHA

Ongoing Projects Bursaalax-Galkacyo road Construction • On going Projects, Projects Reconstruction and Rehabilitation of Xajikhayr-Dalsan Road • On going Projects, Projects Routine Maintenance and other rehabilitation works from Galkacyo to Bosaso, and Garowe to Laascaanod • On going Projects...

pha.pl.so

To be honest, I think Somalis are in a much better position long-term. Relying on local capacity instead of chasing foreign investment keeps development tied to real economic activity. Otherwise, you just end up with debt, loss of ownership, and flashy vanity projects that don’t serve people on the ground.

Somalia, in my view, is seeing more meaningful development than many African countries because it’s decentralized and driven by local needs. Basic services like housing, water, electricity, telecom expansion, agriculture/market and small business growth are being prioritized before flashy infrastructure.

In that 21 roads completion link I shared earlier, what really shocked some people was just how much internal capital exists in the city that could be mobilized for development.

They even installed traffic lights at major road junctions:

somalilandcurrent.com

What’s often overlooked is how much of this infrastructure is actually being built through community fundraising.

One of the reports I read explains the culture of community and private sector financing for roads. A couple of years back, one of the main bottlenecks was lack of proper equipment, so they purchased upgraded machinery from China to speed up delivery. It goes on to talk about how the government, private sector and the community travel across the diaspora and local communities to raise substantial development funds.
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Some examples of major roads and highways linking:

The same goes for Puntland, it’s not only community or private sector-driven. Part of it is also funded by the Puntland government, which collects taxes and channels them into these projects.

The implementation is handled by local companies, and as shown in updates and reports from the Puntland Highway Authority, it’s a coordinated effort between the public and private sectors:

Go through that X account and you will see that 95% of the roads, bridges, drainage are largely funded domestically.

Visuals of one of the above aforementioned projects

Donor funding like AFD actually makes up a fraction of the funding sources for most projects which are self initiated by the local governments and communities.


Somalis have built an entire domestic construction industry from the ground up with complete supply chains producing cement, concrete, tiles, building aggregates, batching, pvc manufacturing etc.

This video goes through every step of that process, even showing their line up of Somali Engineers, Technical team and Laborers and caps it off by showing how building roads is their job

Chinese infrastructure is lacklustre and sometimes outright hazardous, don’t believe the faan, Chinese are masters of deception and Potemkin village tier construction.

They even have a term for it called Tofu Dreg and it's the Chinese that refer to it as such. It's because they try to cut costs so they build with substandard materials because it's cheaper and they try to build stuff in a hurry which makes many even die on the job. Most of it is actually due to systemic corruption that this happens.

Tofu-dreg project - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So consequently you just have infrastructure everywhere in China falling apart.


Somali construction companies like Buruj and Hadiid etc on the other hand are world class. They win international awards and lead the continent. It's because they are community and private sector driven so they strive hard to ensure quality.

Buruuj: Modernizing Somalia’s Infrastructure - Five Magazine

As usual, the economic infrastructure of any country has a positive or negative effect on the economic growth of that country. Buruj Construction Company which was established in 2009 has focused on taking a leading role in developing the economic infrastructure of Somalia that has been severely...

fivemagazine.so

Buruj even has the leading Technical School in East Africa where they shurn out dozens of Somali technicians every year: And Hadiid Industries has an innovation center.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I see alot of posts around aspiring to replicate chinese success in Africa. People see the end results but dont often see the grind that goes into building society like that

Every country needs their xi jin ping

 

[Idilinaa]

Every country needs their xi jin ping

I used to think differently before I learned more and saw how he basically hurt the country in the long run. His crackdown on businesses drove investors away, and domestic giants like Alibaba gradually lost influence or disappeared altogether.


All that massive infrastructure expansion came at the cost of heavy borrowing, leaving the country with huge debt. The average Chinese citizen lost much of their savings after pouring them into real estate. Now, instead of prosperity, there are countless empty buildings, unfinished projects, and subpar construction.


The collapse of China Evergrande Group was the spark that exposed the fragility of the entire real estate bubble.


Watch this video first , it’s pretty informative:


Here’s another one that explains how local governments generated tax revenue by selling land:


And this video gives a rundown of how Apple essentially built up China’s manufacturing power, investing around $55 billion a year , which in turn propped up the CCP:

 

[Idilinaa]

I used to think this way before i learned more and saw that he basically screwed over the country over in the long term.

All that massive infrastructure build out came at a cost of them just borrowing a bunch of money and going into large debt. The average Chinese lost everything they saved into real estate. Now you have just empty buildings and unfinished projects and subpar construction Their real estate bubble started with ''China Evergrand Group" collapsing.


Watch this video first they are pretty informative.


Also this one and it shows how they generated tax revenue around selling land.


This basically gives run down how apple basically trained up China's manufacturing enterprise and invested 55 billion dollars a year where they basically propped up the CCP in the process.

All of this has hit the average Chinese hard because of the policies of their government.

Youth unemployment skyrocketed to 20% and wages have just plummeted or go unpaid.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I used to think differently before I learned more and saw how he basically hurt the country in the long run. His crackdown on businesses drove investors away, and domestic giants like Alibaba gradually lost influence or disappeared altogether.


All that massive infrastructure expansion came at the cost of heavy borrowing, leaving the country with huge debt. The average Chinese citizen lost much of their savings after pouring them into real estate. Now, instead of prosperity, there are countless empty buildings, unfinished projects, and subpar construction.


The collapse of China Evergrande Group was the spark that exposed the fragility of the entire real estate bubble.


Watch this video first , it’s pretty informative:


Here’s another one that explains how local governments generated tax revenue by selling land:


And this video gives a rundown of how Apple essentially built up China’s manufacturing power, investing around $55 billion a year , which in turn propped up the CCP:

Xi is the guy who single handedly secured china's future and dragged the country into the 21st century, some youtube ccp fear mongering wont change that

 

[Idilinaa]

Xi is the guy who single handedly secured china's future and dragged the country into the 21st century, some youtube ccp fear mongering wont change that

It was actually his predecessor who set all of that in motion. He’s the one who opened China to the world and attracted foreign investment , started to embrace market economics, that foundation is what drove the country’s rapid rise.

You don't have to look at that business youtube channel if you feel it might be biased, but you can look at what Chinese people in China are saying:

All of this has hit the average Chinese hard because of the policies of their government.

Youth unemployment skyrocketed to 20% and wages have just plummeted or go unpaid.

I don’t think China is headed for an economic collapse or some kind of doomsday scenario, but it is definitely at a crossroads.


The country urgently needs to transition away from an export and manufacturing driven model toward a service and consumer-driven economy. Labor is no longer cheap, and to sustain growth, China has to redirect its focus inward.

You can also listen to this world renowned Chinese economist explain it:

 

[Barkhadle1520]

The country urgently needs to transition away from an export and manufacturing driven model toward a service and consumer-driven economy. Labor is no longer cheap, and to sustain growth, China has to redirect its focus inward.

Thats true but in terms of hormar without Xi China is nothing

 

[Basra]

I see alot of posts around aspiring to replicate chinese success in Africa. People see the end results but dont often see the grind that goes into building society like that

Nah. Africans are not Chinese. Chinese lack souls and Africans have an abundance of soul. The grind that the Chinese work ethics requires kills souls. Africans although not smart hard workers themselves- cannot withstand the grind. I might be wrong tho- because Chinese and Africans have the same dna type- wide nose etc etc

 

[Idilinaa]

Thats true but in terms of hormar without Xi China is nothing

They will almost certainly recover from the real estate bubble, the banks will be bailed out, just as they were in the U.S., Japan, and even Canada when those countries went through their own crises/real estate bubbles. The difference is that the average Chinese citizen will suffer more, since most of their savings are tied up in real estate, whereas in other countries wealth is more diversified across businesses, stocks, and other assets.


The real test for Xi Jinping will be whether he can shift China into a truly consumer driven economy, encouraging people to spend rather than hoard their savings.

 

[SpaceyCadet]

Kind of unrelated to topic but something I find interesting. The eventual wall scientific advancement will hit unless we expand life span and reduce cognitive decline that happens with aging.

1. Complexity Barrier (or Knowledge Barrier)​

• As science advances, the amount of prerequisite knowledge required to make further breakthroughs grows so large that a single human lifetime may not be enough to master it all.
• This is sometimes discussed in the context of diminishing returns in science—it takes exponentially more effort and time to push the frontier further.

2. Cognitive Time Limit / Lifespan Bottleneck​

• The limitation caused by human lifespan and cognitive bandwidth. Even if knowledge is available, the time needed to learn and apply it becomes the bottleneck.

3. Cumulative Complexity Problem​

• Each scientific discovery adds layers of complexity. Eventually, the cumulative complexity slows progress because no individual can master everything needed to innovate at the cutting edge.

4. Epistemic Horizon​

• A philosophical term referring to the ultimate boundary of what we can know or understand, given human limitations.

This concept is increasingly relevant today because fields like quantum physics, genomics, and AI alignment require years just to master the basics before one can contribute to research.

I believe that’s what makes specialisation important. You do what you can in your field and develop it and later it gets subdivided into a new field. There is a phrase related to this “in order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must create the universe first”, you don’t.

 

[Idilinaa]

They even have a term for it called Tofu Dreg and it's the Chinese that refer to it as such. It's because they try to cut costs so they build with substandard materials because it's cheaper and they try to build stuff in a hurry which makes many even die on the job. Most of it is actually due to systemic corruption that this happens.

Tofu-dreg project - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So consequently you just have infrastructure everywhere in China falling apart.


Somali construction companies like Buruj and Hadiid etc on the other hand are world class. They win international awards and lead the continent. It's because they are community and private sector driven so they strive hard to ensure quality.

Buruuj: Modernizing Somalia’s Infrastructure - Five Magazine

As usual, the economic infrastructure of any country has a positive or negative effect on the economic growth of that country. Buruj Construction Company which was established in 2009 has focused on taking a leading role in developing the economic infrastructure of Somalia that has been severely...

fivemagazine.so

Buruj even has the leading Technical School in East Africa where they shurn out dozens of Somali technicians every year: And Hadiid Industries has an innovation center.

Apparently, the issue lies with the government. Developers are pressured to build more and to do it quickly while being forced to work with very low profit margins. As a result, many resort to cutting corners just to finish projects on time or make any money at all. In some cases, there are even payoffs to regulators to look the other way.

Are you trying to imply Somalis are lazy and outsourced the north to south road? Because your own source says there was hundreds of Somali construction workers that worked along side the Chinese who were there to transfer technical knowledge, skills and expertise.

''In this way, hundreds of Somali rose from unskilled to skilled workers in a short time''

''Right next to the residential camps to the Somali road construction workers were those of the Chinese''
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By the way, one of the head engineers of Buruuj graduated from Somali National University in 1974 and was part of the engineering team tasked with constructing the South-to-North road.

"Having graduated from Somali National University, Faculty of Engineering in Civil Engineering, he specialises is roads construction. Eng. Mohamed Sheikh Abdullahi fell in love with roads in 1974 where he was among a team of engineers tasked to construct Balatweyne-Burao Road which is about 1,000km.''

Funding sources varied, but most if not all of the road projects in the 1970s and 1980s were driven by local engineers and labor. They weren’t outsourced.


Even outside Somalia, like in Kenya, Somali engineers are praised for their excellence and use of high quality modern building materials. Whilst they criticize Kikuyu constructions as being subpar in comparison:

 

[The truth seeker]

They will almost certainly recover from the real estate bubble, the banks will be bailed out, just as they were in the U.S., Japan, and even Canada when those countries went through their own crises/real estate bubbles. The difference is that the average Chinese citizen will suffer more, since most of their savings are tied up in real estate, whereas in other countries wealth is more diversified across businesses, stocks, and other assets.


The real test for Xi Jinping will be whether he can shift China into a truly consumer driven economy, encouraging people to spend rather than hoard their savings.

It seems Xi does not understand the consequences of deflation

China’s Xi Jinping asked ‘What’s so bad about deflation?’ amid economic slowdown, report says | Fortune

“Don’t people like it when things are cheaper?” Chinese President Xi Jinping reportedly asked his advisers.

fortune.com

Personally I like Hu Jintao undoubtedly the best world leader of the 2000s and the man who oversaw chinas explosive post WTO entry growth it’s a shame XI is trying to erase his memory

https://www.cnn.com/2012/11/08/world/asia/china-hu-jintao-report-card-florcruz

Zhu is also another criminally underrated CCP figure​

Zhu Rongji. The forgotten hero of China's economic success

A reformer and pragmatist, a proponent of opening up to the West. Within a decade of Zhu Rongji's governance, he carried out a major reorganisation of the Chinese economy. He empowered the

klubjagiellonski.pl

A nice article that explains Chinas issues

https://swarajyamag.com/economy/chinese-economy-a-fragile-giant-behind-the-roaring-dragon

 

[Idilinaa]

It seems Xi does not understand the consequences of deflation

China’s Xi Jinping asked ‘What’s so bad about deflation?’ amid economic slowdown, report says | Fortune

“Don’t people like it when things are cheaper?” Chinese President Xi Jinping reportedly asked his advisers.

fortune.com

Falling prices (deflation) reduce business revenues, which can suppress wages and lower consumer demand further. It creates a vicious cycle.

You can actually see this in one of the videos I linked ‘95% Don’t Know, China’s Wages Are Actually the Lowest Globally, Even Lower than Africa’s.’ Obviously the title is hyperbolic.

It includes testimonies, data, and interviews with Chinese citizens and farmers about their incomes. The same trend shows up in the wider economy too, businesses shutting down and a sharp drop in investment

Personally I like Hu Jintao undoubtedly the best world leader of the 2000s and the man who oversaw chinas explosive post WTO entry growth it’s a shame XI is trying to erase his memory

https://www.cnn.com/2012/11/08/world/asia/china-hu-jintao-report-card-florcruz

Zhu is also another criminally underrated CCP figure​

Zhu Rongji. The forgotten hero of China's economic success

A reformer and pragmatist, a proponent of opening up to the West. Within a decade of Zhu Rongji's governance, he carried out a major reorganisation of the Chinese economy. He empowered the

klubjagiellonski.pl

A nice article that explains Chinas issues

https://swarajyamag.com/economy/chinese-economy-a-fragile-giant-behind-the-roaring-dragon

He really was the true architect of China’s economic rise. He doesn’t get enough credit , his push for global integration, free trade, foreign investment, support for local industries, and promotion of market reforms turned China into the ‘factory of the world.


He was clever too , he even managed to get Apple to train millions of Chinese engineers while paying billions to the CCP just to keep operating there. In many ways, Apple became dependent on China instead of the other way around. No wonder he was called the ‘Economic Czar.’


But the other side of that story is the human cost: life was brutally hard for the average factory worker, with very little labor protection or rights.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Xi is the guy who single handedly secured china's future and dragged the country into the 21st century, some youtube ccp fear mongering wont change that

Not just XI, the work had started in the seventies with the thawing of Sino-American relationship under the presidency of Nixon and the predecessors of XI welcomed financial investment from abroad. Jintao and deng had done just as much it could be argued.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Its been decades in the making

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Not just XI, the work had started in the seventies with the thawing of Sino-American relationship under the presidency of Nixon and the predecessors of XI welcomed financial investment from abroad. Jintao and deng had done just as much it could be argued.

I thought it was the late 80s

 

[The truth seeker]

I thought it was the late 80s

The 1980s is when they started opening up the market but the 70s is when they started burning bridges with the Soviets and building bridges with the west /japan

China did not become a full part of the global economic system until 2001 when they entered the WTO

China after the 2000s was an economic superpower that rivaled America

 

[The Oponian Guild]

I thought it was the late 80s

Way way earlier bro