Can we take knowledge from Sheikh Imran Hosein? - Assim al hakeem


I actually have a couple of his books. I think he's an interesting social commentator but I don't believe a lot of what he says. I think he means well but I think he comes up with strange conclusions.
 

Django

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He is not a sheikh but a speaker.
Imran Hossein studied secularism and he graduated in that field.
He didnt study Islam.

It's like an Engineering Graduate holidaying PhD or masters talking about the Islamic discipline when he knows less knowledge of it.

It's like a Sheikh who studied hadith giving lectures on medicine or Engineering.
 
So you need an Arab to tell you whether or not you can listen to an Indian living in the Caribbean? Instead, why don't you ask him whether or not you're allowed to have your wife penetrate you with a pink strap-on?
 
So you need an Arab to tell you whether or not you can listen to an Indian living in the Caribbean? Instead, why don't you ask him whether or not you're allowed to have your wife penetrate you with a pink strap-on?
what does one being Indian or Arab have to do with this? Would the validity of Imran Hosein's ideas be any different if he was of another ethnicity? I don't think that what you've said is relevant. From a comedian standpoint, maybe the second line was a funny joke but from an Islamic standpoint, I don't think your post contributes anything.
 
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Ebuo

high quality fob

I actually have a couple of his books. I think he's an interesting social commentator but I don't believe a lot of what he says. I think he means well but I think he comes up with strange conclusions.
This guy is sponsored sheikh, he can't talk without the permission of his sponsors, he once said that protesting, even if there was injustice is haram. That was when George Floyd was murdered and there were protests.
 
This guy is sponsored sheikh, he can't talk without the permission of his sponsors, he once said that protesting, even if there was injustice is haram. That was when George Floyd was murdered and there were protests.
He can't talk without permission of his sponsors? He is a puppet?

If you want to make that kind of accusation then you should provide evidence. Saying protests are unIslamic- so what? That's just the standard Salafi position. It's not something particular to Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem.
 
what does one being Indian or Arab have to do with this? Would the validity of Imran Hosein's ideas be any different if he was of another ethnicity? I don't think that what you've said is relevant. From a comedian standpoint, maybe the second line was a funny joke but from an Islamic standpoint, I don't think your post contributes anything.
I appreciate your taste in humor. Now then, semantically what you are asking is really weird. "Can I get knowledge from this guy?" Knowledge is knowledge. Take it where-ever you can find it. Now if you're asking whether or not we can believe what he says then, like everything else in life, take it with a grain of salt. I agree with his view that the Qur'an is the litmus test for the validity of a hadith or fatwa. This is probably why he's despised.

Most Islamic scholars hate him because that view takes power away from them and gives it back to the people by forcing them to use common sense. For instance, the prophet marrying a child doesn't make sense and neither does killing an apostate. I mean, who cares if someone leaves the religion of truth? There's a whole surah dedicated to the hypocrites. People who actively sabotaged Islam, yet they were still allowed to live freely. Does an apostate deserve to die when he helps Muslims? Virtually every scholar of today's time would view that execution is required yet on the side they are actively destroying the ability for a Muslim to critically think. All this while they earn a quick buck.

This phenomena is called "scholars for dollars" because any righteous 'Ulama is imprisoned or ridiculed.

tldr; get knowledge where-ever, whenever you can and take it with a grain of salt.
 
I appreciate your taste in humor. Now then, semantically what you are asking is really weird. "Can I get knowledge from this guy?" Knowledge is knowledge. Take it where-ever you can find it. Now if you're asking whether or not we can believe what he says then, like everything else in life, take it with a grain of salt. I agree with his view that the Qur'an is the litmus test for the validity of a hadith or fatwa. This is probably why he's despised.

Most Islamic scholars hate him because that view takes power away from them and gives it back to the people by forcing them to use common sense. For instance, the prophet marrying a child doesn't make sense and neither does killing an apostate. I mean, who cares if someone leaves the religion of truth? There's a whole surah dedicated to the hypocrites. People who actively sabotaged Islam, yet they were still allowed to live freely. Does an apostate deserve to die when he helps Muslims? Virtually every scholar of today's time would view that execution is required yet on the side they are actively destroying the ability for a Muslim to critically think. All this while they earn a quick buck.

This phenomena is called "scholars for dollars" because any righteous 'Ulama is imprisoned or ridiculed.

tldr; get knowledge where-ever, whenever you can and take it with a grain of salt.
Are you a Quranist or do you accept the role of the hadith in the Deen?
 
Are you a Quranist or do you accept the role of the hadith in the Deen?
I see that you seem to have conflated two separate arguments. The fact that the Quran is the ultimate litmus test for the veracity of a hadith is unquestioned.

What I find interesting is it being followed by the assertion that, as a result, the fact that the majority of the Muslims throughout the history of the Ummah has agreed on the correct conduct of the disposition of affairs regarding the apostate and the role of the scholars, not as clergy but as bastions of the knowledge of the Deen is irrelevant and inferior to your determinations of what is moral and correct.

The final thing I would like to point out to people is his reference to critical thinking. In this, he is referring to the use of reason. There are two modes of reason: instrumental reasoning (using reason to achieve an end) and value reasoning (using reason to determine what is right). Value reasoning used in the determination of the religion on par with the Qur'an and sunnah has led to many heresies like the Mu'tazilite heresy (which lead to the Mihnah) and have mislead many. I would advise everyone to centre the Qur'an and Sunnah and utilise reason as a subsidiary.
 
I'm a realist. If a hadith contradicts the Qur'an, what do you do? Blindly follow it?
Your reasoning is fallacious. Let me break this down further. My question asked you to pick between two options: you affirm the role of the hadith in the determination of truth in the Deen according to the manner of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah (in which the Qur'an is the superior and ultimate source of truth with the ahadith being superior in turn to the consensus of the scholars, which is in turn superior to the use of ijtihad - the use of analogical deduction (Qiyaas) and personal judgement (Ra y) to determine principles from the Qur'an and Sunnah) or you reject the role of the ahadith entirely, thus being a Quranist.

It is implicit in you accepting the role of the ahadith that you reject a hadith which has been understood by the majority of scholars to be apposite to the Qur'an.

I suspect your term "realist" refers to something else altogether. Be brave and tell us what that is. We're big kids here:)
 
You aire not even a Muslim you have no say in this

Oh really, not again

:ohlord:

This place is full of them

What's worse, their arguments are so specious, I feel like I have my brain being pulled out actually having to stoop to challenge them

If I didn't have 68 IQ at the start of my time on Somalispot, I sure will by the end of it
 
I see that you seem to have conflated two separate arguments. The fact that the Quran is the ultimate litmus test for the veracity of a hadith is unquestioned.

What I find interesting is it being followed by the assertion that, as a result, the fact that the majority of the Muslims throughout the history of the Ummah has agreed on the correct conduct of the disposition of affairs regarding the apostate and the role of the scholars, not as clergy but as bastions of the knowledge of the Deen is irrelevant and inferior to your determinations of what is moral and correct.

The final thing I would like to point out to people is his reference to critical thinking. In this, he is referring to the use of reason. There are two modes of reason: instrumental reasoning (using reason to achieve an end) and value reasoning (using reason to determine what is right). Value reasoning used in the determination of the religion on par with the Qur'an and sunnah has led to many heresies like the Mu'tazilite heresy (which lead to the Mihnah) and have mislead many. I would advise everyone to centre the Qur'an and Sunnah and utilise reason as a subsidiary.
Look, I'm a proponent of putting Islam on hold, okay? No more punishments until we can conclude what is necessary. For instance: chopping off a man's hand because he stole was a necessity in the early days. They didn't have jails or any other way to tell who was a thief in a society that was built on trust. They had to trust one another not to rob/loot their homes that may have not even had a lock on it.

Today's time is different. Our doors have locks and we can just imprison thieves. With a prison record, they keep a permanent scar on their ability to earth wealth akin to the chopping of a hand. Then we got the AS who just wanna chop everyone's hands off because it symbolizes the "glory days of Islam". This is pure ignorance and this is the mentality that will lead to continuing misery of the Somali people.

Also, with regards to your point about the Mihna period, I don't know much about it but I will say that anyone who wants to add another ideology onto Islam is most likely insane. This is a religion of critical thought and the Qur'an is a book which forces you to think. Unfortunately, Muslims love to follow what was done in the past and refuse to think in the future and this is why we became conquered after ruling the world for over a 1000 years.
 
Look, I'm a proponent of putting Islam on hold, okay? No more punishments until we can conclude what is necessary. For instance: chopping off a man's hand because he stole was a necessity in the early days. They didn't have jails or any other way to tell who was a thief in a society that was built on trust. They had to trust one another not to rob/loot their homes that may have not even had a lock on it.

Today's time is different. Our doors have locks and we can just imprison thieves. With a prison record, they keep a permanent scar on their ability to earth wealth akin to the chopping of a hand. Then we got the AS who just wanna chop everyone's hands off because it symbolizes the "glory days of Islam". This is pure ignorance and this is the mentality that will lead to continuing misery of the Somali people.

Also, with regards to your point about the Mihna period, I don't know much about it but I will say that anyone who wants to add another ideology onto Islam is most likely insane. This is a religion of critical thought and the Qur'an is a book which forces you to think. Unfortunately, Muslims love to follow what was done in the past and refuse to think in the future and this is why we became conquered after ruling the world for over a 1000 years.
What is necessary in Islam necessitates the use of reason relying on axioms (first principles) derived from the Qur'an and Sunnah. This is the point I am trying to put through.

Let me rephrase this. Think of your worldview as a tree. The tree has roots which draw into the soil which represent here the axioms (first principles) underpinning the worldview. Without this soil (and what it represents), the worldview tree will fall over. One of the axioms held by Muslims is that the deen was completed in the lifetime of the Rasulullah and will remain on this Earth until Allah sees fit to remove it. The implementation of the Hadd (corporal and capital punishment) is a part of the collective implementation of the deen, even if you, and other people, are unaware of the finer principles guiding its implementation (like the need for the prosecuting authority to seek any reason acceptable within the Sharia to not implement the Hadd and exhaust these avenues instead of pursuing it without limit and, even worse, extrajudicially). Today's time is no different. The deen remains. Islam shall not be put on hold, nay Islam is submission to the divine. Submission is antithetical to the possibility of being put on hold.
 
What is necessary in Islam necessitates the use of reason relying on axioms (first principles) derived from the Qur'an and Sunnah. This is the point I am trying to put through.

Let me rephrase this. There is a concept known as a "weltanschauung". This roughly translates to a worldview. Think of your weltanschauung as a tree. The tree has roots which draw into the soil which represent here the axioms (first principles) underpinning the weltanschauung. One of the axioms held by Muslims is that the deen was completed in the lifetime of the Rasulullah and will remain on this Earth until Allah sees fit to remove it. The implementation of the Hadd (corporal and capital punishment) is a part of the collective implementation of the deen, even if you, and other people, are unaware of the finer principles guiding its implementation (like the need for the prosecuting authority to seek any reason acceptable within the Sharia to not implement the Hadd and exhaust these avenues instead of pursuing it without limit and, even worse, extrajudicially). Today's time is no different. The deen remains. Islam shall not be put on hold, nay Islam is submission to the divine. Submission is antithetical to the possibility of being put on hold.
I knew one person in the West who ended up fighting for Al-Shabaab. He died in an explosion. Honestly, you can kill every member of that group in Somalia but they will always exist globally. To make matters worse, the mosque is Somali but funded by Arabs. How are we going to get rid of Somali extremism, when it brainwashes via social media, by following your method?
 
I knew one person in the West who ended up fighting for Al-Shabaab. He died in an explosion. Honestly, you can kill every member of that group in Somalia but they will always exist globally. To make matters worse, the mosque is Somali but funded by Arabs. How are we going to get rid of Somali extremism, when it brainwashes via social media, by following your method?
Again waryaa you are conflating two separate phenomena which are only superficially linked. Let me discuss kharijism in Somalia.

The emergence of khawarij in Somalia and their refusal to go away is an issue of the weakness of the legitimacy of the state in the eyes of the people, the inability of the state to draw on social capital effectively and to maintain the minimum of public goods (like clean water, freedom from violence, rule of law) and the relative impoverishment of the people. Khawarij have existed throughout the ages, the current bout is not exactly unknown.

I find it specious that people point to Arab funded mosques as the source of this issue. If you are really so concerned about the predominance of the Salafiyyah, it would be best to strengthen the extant ulema in Somalia. Somalia has an extremely long tradition of Islamic scholarship, their provision with extra resources would rapidly drown out the foreign Salafiyyah. Anyway, I wouldn't be that concerned about foreign funding. Arabs tend to promote Madkhalis, who are not violent, and only provide financial and military support to Khawarij for realpolitik reasons.

As for your foreign friend in the West, I don't know and I am not interested. I would like to remind you that he lived in the West, not Somalia so I find it silly to point to Somalis as the cause of that.
 
Oh really, not again

:ohlord:

This place is full of them

What's worse, their arguments are so specious, I feel like I have my brain being pulled out actually having to stoop to challenge them

If I didn't have 68 IQ at the start of my time on Somalispot, I sure will by the end of it
The quran is orally transmitted like Hadith are so whatever this guy says its stupid. The scholars have already done the job in grading hadith
 
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