Can we really trust democracy?

[010101]

As if the masses knows what’s good for them.

Inclusive institutions are necessary in some respect to keep the peace you want people to feel that they are apart of the system. Ideally there would be a “shura” that would pick the next leader and that shura would be large in number and would also take into account public opinion(surveys) before picking. Sounds like an electoral college.

 

[Tukraq]

Oromos actually had the first “democracy” in africa when it comes to electing a leader also somali history and culture is not defined by 1960-1969 we for the vast majority of our history were ruled by sultans that are almost always picked by shura or lineage.

oromos never even had a state/government lol, what are you talking about
somalia being the first democracy is historic facts, oromo isn't even a country, and were just 3rd class citizens under habesha kingdoms until recently

 

[Cilmi-doon]

A democracy is like a supermarket where you can buy and consume whatever you want. While I oppose a police state that pries on citizens’ private lives, the values and moral fiber of a society should be safeguarded.

 

[Tukraq]

A democracy is like a supermarket where you can buy and consume whatever you want. While I oppose a police state that pries on citizens’ private lives, the values and moral fiber of a society should be safeguarded.

those things like values are entirely subjective though, John down the street may possible have the exact opposite values as you for example, which is why democracy is the choice as each person makes there own choice, were seeing a shift were governments are now mimicking the market, aka where everyone votes with there dollar to get what they desire, government still isn't able to replicate that level of individual control and taste yet though so unlike the market is slow, late to trends, dosent statisfy everyone properly with there individual tastes and so on, however democracy is the best system currently available by a long shot

 

[Cilmi-doon]

those things like values are entirely subjective though, John down the street may possible have the exact opposite values as you for example, which is why democracy is the choice as each person makes there own choice, were seeing a shift were governments are now mimicking the market, aka where everyone votes with there dollar to get what they desire, government still isn't able to replicate that level of individual control and taste yet though so unlike the market is slow, late to trends, dosent statisfy everyone properly with there individual tastes and so on, however democracy is the best system currently available by a long shot

There’s no such thing as absolute objectivity bro, your decision making will always be influenced by irrational factors such as your upbringing, emotions, past experiences etc.I’m assuming you’re talking about the west and the rest of the world.In that case let them be gluttonous and self-indulgent. However I don’t want that for my people(yes all Somalis). I want a steady hand guiding the Somali social ecosystem towards self-respect and the preservation of our identity while living in the modern world.

 

[Tukraq]

There’s no such thing as absolute objectivity bro, your decision making will always be influenced by irrational factors such as your upbringing, emotions, past experiences etc.I’m assuming you’re talking about the west and the rest of the world.In that case let them be gluttonous and self-indulgent. However I don’t want that for my people(yes all Somalis). I want a steady hand guiding the Somali social ecosystem towards self-respect and the preservation of our identity while living in the modern world.

we weren't made for a steady hand or guidance, were head strong and naturally anarchical sxb and don't buck to authority, would be going against our social culture

 

[Cilmi-doon]

we weren't made for a steady hand or guidance, were head strong and naturally anarchical sxb and don't buck to authority, would be going against our social culture

I’m not implying an authoritarian state in Somalia, what we need is a combination of laws, a Muslim Somali-minded educational curriculum, the clergy and society working in tandem to preserve our way of life.

 

[010101]

oromos never even had a state/government lol, what are you talking about
somalia being the first democracy is historic facts, oromo isn't even a country, and were just 3rd class citizens under habesha kingdoms until recently

Somalis had democracy for a total of 9 years and they assasinated the second president. I was also referring to the gadaa system u should look it up its been classed by UNESCO as an intangible world heritage piece.

 

[Tukraq]

Somalis had democracy for a total of 9 years and they assasinated the second president. I was also referring to the gadaa system u should look it up its been classed by UNESCO as an intangible world heritage piece.

Yes 9 years but still the first democracy on the continent and we still own that title when it’s eventually restored, as for the oromo they’ve never had a state or nation/empire, went from pastoralists to bottom class in habesha kingdoms hierchy to marginalization in Ethiopian governments until now a half Oromo is prime minister at this late stage

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Radical Canjeerorism the taxpayer do want a say who leads them or governs them and to be quite honest I can't see a reason why not. Sure their not all educated, sure some have agendas, sure some are short term and prefer tax cuts and more money in their pocket, sure some are social reformer who want society to fit their idea(gay rights, abortion, minority rights, women right, workers right, etc).

The average voter is mix bag but at the end of the day they tend to vote for whatever is the major concern in their society, be it crime levels, security risk from foreign nations, immigration, and 'taxes' is big one as most feel their money is never used properly and therefore don't feel they should be charged anymore then the basics. I studied European history. They went thru tribal dark ages for centuries just pillaging, looting, invading, etc. They eventually set up ruling families thru 'warfare' of course and they became monarchies.

Eventually Monarchies needed 'aristocrats' which in today's equivalent is 'technocrats or educated ama waxgarads' then watched the game all together was bankers as it was 'illegal' to banking in christianity or interest based banking. This created a new class 'capitalist' people who have money.

They were initially merchants like 'Somalis' who started going into 'borrowing/lending' game and applied interest on loans for peasants, monarchs, educated elites, etc. This class of people is who dominates our society till today not so much monarchs-aristocrats.

But they found beautiful system to accomodate the past(monarchies), they shifted the 'aristocrats' into 'parties' and ensured it was run by 'educated elites' so this meant the 'voter' had to choose between 'a field of intelligent people' even though he may be dumb as a voter the choices put before him are 'smart options'. Then they had 'checks and balances', delegation of duties and responsibilities. But the one who is still 'un-checked' is the 'capitalist' as they know the government 'needs' them in order to invest so they begin large banks and make capital available to locals to start businesses thru borrowing and lending, investment banking, etc

I like the western system wallahi they accomodated the old(monarchies) which is essentially our ISIMO, they accomodated the aristocrats who are 'waxgarads' and educated elites into political parties, while giving the peasant the chance to 'vote' and have a say which 'smart person he prefers over another smart person'. They work hand in hand these various actors of the past and present. While the capitalist then sits there and begins injecting investments, businesses, shares, borrowing/lending and all the various things you can do with money.

The government then collect it's taxes across the whole spectrum of society and re-injects into schools, hospitals, military, police, firefighters, sewages, roads, and the basic essentials to keep the economy moving. The system is very ideal when I done a very thorough examination of it however the people in your 'current era' may not be ideal, that doesn't mean the system is at fault, but society is heading away from the principles of democratic system

 

[Mehdi Hassan]

Democracy > Despot or a monarch

Otherwise go live in China

Monarchy isn't the only other option. I see you have a Western worldview. Just like the brother said, democracy is highly overrated. Only a select group of informed honest unbiased intelligent individuals should elect a leader. Just like the good old days.

 

[Octavian]

The average voter for a presidential election doesn't know shit about what's right for the country, nor are they even trying to be as informed and correct as possible. A large group of people will vote on likeability and "gut" feeling "I can have shax with that guy", "he is from reer hebel", or my favorite... "he fits my uninformed guess at what a successful leader might be like" .

the majority of voters flat-out don't understand the issues, nor are they trying to improve in that regard. Some have a cursory understanding, based on maybe a couple of hours of watching debates on the topic, and yet they see themselves qualified to have an opinion as well as a someone working in the field for decades.
You can't honestly be making the case that unenlightened people, when polled en-masse, will somehow magically arrive at the correct answer?

"Maximizing democracy": if that means letting everyone vote, it just further dilutes the quality of the choice. More ignorant people voting just means a more ignorant results.
In democracy, we are not asking interested people to pick a simple yes or no answer. We are asking very complicated questions to deeply uninformed people, and consistently, over and over, they tend to answer by latching on to logical fallacies. The only thing you can safely expect from the majority of the electorate is to have made their choice based on something illogical: she's a woman, he is tall and strong, he kissed a baby, she "won" the debate, he is sheikh, he'll bring jobs... AND YOU WONDER WHY THE MAJORITY OF WORLD LEADERS ARE SHIT

It's a glorified popularity contest, you might as well pick a candidate by racing toddlers

Anarchy is the way

 

[Octavian]

so might makes right according to you

Yes the weak should be enslaved