Can The Incel Movement Revolutionize Gender Relation

[DR OSMAN]

The Incel movement currently is deemed as 'weirdos' by the public, but do some of their arguments hold merit? Why would a movement begin if their is no injustice whether real or perceived is up for debate here. I am sure women will say it's their own 'percieved' injustice. I myself was kinda conditioned by society to look at them as 'weirdos' but I am switching off that 'social conditioning' to assess their arguments.

They argue Women are making it so hard for men to have sex and use sex as a tool against Men. They argue sex is a legit biological need of men and isn't a 'choice' they made and women shouldn't use this 'need' against them. Some argue since sex is a genuine biological need, it should be made a 'right' and women should be prosecuted for refusing to service this need, which means the elimination of 'rape' laws. I find that a bit 'radical' specially eliminating 'rape' laws, but that's what their pushing for.

I do agree with the part that sex is a biological need of men and it isn't something they chose and therefore their needs to be some accomodating by women. Currently women high expectations is potentially isolating them from a partner, their r many women from the feminist wave era who are old grannies who have big regrets about their lofty standards as their dying alone now. Women want looks, personality, money, smartness, some even want 'religious match' on top of that, while most also demand 'time/effort' expended in relationship.

Are these lofty standards going to isolate women from potential partners becuz the amount of men who can 'tick' each requirement is a very small pool and that small pool will be over-grazed by 'females' leading to their 'depletion' and then what's left is all these women disregarding the other potential male pool outside the 'ideal' pool. I am not a woman so I will ask them, do u look for 100% matches across all criterias in men or 50% and above or do some have more weight then others?

So even tho the Incels have some legitimate arguments that sex is a biological need of men and shouldn't be restricted heavily to them, But that's where my agreement with them ends and I don't think it's sane to decriminalize rape. Yes men may suffer sexual oppression by women, but the answer isn't sexual oppression of women either. One injustice converted to another isn't wise at all.

 

[Angelina]

You sound like an R-word sympathizer, even if that isn’t your intention.

Relationships aren’t a ‘right’ and has never been. Throughout history many men have lived and died single. Claiming that it’s a right, means you believe women should be compelled to sleep with and procreate with men they don’t want. So basically, men should be allowed to gain access to what they want at the expense of women and to the detriment of society.

Even if you take out the emotional or pro-woman stance of my argument, believing that you have a ‘right’ to gain access to a woman is indeed a detriment to society. Weak, entitled men who should be indeed avoided will now be able to pass on their self loathing pathetic temperaments to their offspring ruining the gene pool. Most incels are incels due to their horrible attitudes, some due to hygiene issues, and other factors that are seen as repulsive to men and women. They’re not desirable partners and to make it worse, they’re entitled and refuse to put the work in. We don’t need more of those types of humans. Even families don’t want their children marrying those types of guys and even decent and strong fathers can sniff out those types. Whilst we can argue that sex is a biologically driven, so is the need to preserve our genes and that is more important for overall quality of humanity. Women’s choosiness is a quality that has made humans better. There is a reason why they’ve been created this way and it has allowed humanity to thrive.

Hence, stop being a r-word apologist. You don’t have a right to a woman. If she doesn’t want you, she doesn’t want you and if most women avoid you, it means you need to work on yourself. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Hodan from HR]

Sex is not a biological need. Oxygen is.

And if we are being real here, men can hire sex workers or easily marry from third world countries (not that I'm encouraging this) if sex is all they need but that's not the real issue.

Incels have a skewed perception of women because of their corn addiction. They could benefit from enrolling in monastery..

 

[mohamedismail]

I disagree with this. I don't think it's a right of a man to have access to a woman. Why would a woman have to be persecuted for not having sex with a man.

It is arguable that in 2023 womens standards have increased and that is also negatively affecting their happiness and leaving many single and unhappy. But also to say it is a mans right to have access to a woman isn't right. Life isn't fair, some have and others don't. Some have money some are poor, some are healthy some aren't.

Also you have to take into consideration that many incels themselves are self sabotaging. They do things which make themselves undesirable to women. They also have high standards with women and could probably find a woman who is willing to accept them if they were humble and looked for a woman on their level.

The only incels I feel sympathy for are those that can't find a woman because of something out of their control. For example them being physically disabled or having some sort of deformity. But a normal guy who probably could better himself and find a woman is in the wrong himself, which constitutes majority of Incels.

 

[Hodan from HR]

So basically, men should be allowed to gain access to what they want at the expense of women and to the detriment of society.

It baffles me walahi.

As if dealing with periods, pregnancy and childbirth is not hard enough, now we have to deal with creeps thinking it is their right to access our bodies. Do they even see women as human beings?

 

[Angelina]

I disagree with this. I don't think it's a right of a man to have access to a woman. Why would a woman have to be persecuted for not having sex with a man.

It is arguable that in 2023 womens standards have increased and that is also negatively affecting their happiness and leaving many single and unhappy. But also to say it is a mans right to have access to a woman isn't right. Life isn't fair, some have and others don't. Some have money some are poor, some are healthy some aren't.

Also you have to take into consideration that many incels themselves are self sabotaging. They do things which make themselves undesirable to women. They also have high standards with women and could probably find a woman who is willing to accept them if they were humble and looked for a woman on their level.

The only incels I feel sympathy for are those that can't find a woman because of something out of their control. For example them being physically disabled or having some sort of deformity. But a normal guy who probably could better himself and find a woman is in the wrong himself, which constitutes majority of Incels.

Giving men, who don’t want to improve their circumstances and have repulsive qualities a wife, will mess up society in the long run. Even without delving into how it impacts women on a personal level, the societal level is also astronomical as It will also damage future male offspring because they’ll inherit certain traits that are negative. Supposedly, according to scientists, women’s choosiness actually has benefits in the long run.

No one is perfect. But what makes incels and I’m talking about the able bodied ones a threat is their entitlement and their refusal to try and be palatable well rounded humans. They’ll bask in their repulsiveness and expect to be wanted.

Imagine if men who refuse to brush their teeth, wash and look presentable are given a bride by force. Morality aside, what will become of future men? They’ll learn that it’s acceptable to be dirty and Instead of eliminating a good surplus of unhygienic men from the gene pool, it will normalize traits that were once seen as repugnant, which is a total nightmare. One of the reason why societies prioritize cleanliness is because without it, they’d be ostracized. It’s part of human instinct to be disgusted by this.

 

[El Nino]

Life is unfair, if a man cannot attract a woman, thats on him. Simple as that.

 

[Angelina]

It baffles me walahi.

As if dealing with periods, pregnancy and childbirth is not hard enough, now we have to deal with creeps thinking it is their right to access our bodies. Do they even see women as human beings?

No, they don’t. That’s already a given. I don’t believe a good % of men see women as people. Even the normal non incel presenting ones.

 

[mohamedismail]

Giving men, who don’t want to improve their circumstances and have repulsive qualities a wife, will mess up society in the long run. Even without delving into how it impacts women on a personal level, the societal level is also astronomical as It will also damage future male offspring because they’ll inherit certain traits that are negative. Supposedly, according to scientists women’s choosiness actually has benefits in the long run.

No one is perfect. But what makes incels and I’m talking about the able bodied ones a threat is their entitlement and their refusal to try and be palatable well rounded humans. They’ll bask in their repulsiveness and expect to be wanted.

Imagine if men who refuse to brush his teeth, wash and look presentable are given a bride by force. Morality aside, what will become of future men? They’ll learn that it’s acceptable to be dirty and Instead of eliminating a good surplus of unhygienic men from the gene pool, it will be normalized which is a total nightmare. One of the reason why societies prioritize cleanliness is because without it, they’d be ostracized. It’s part of human instinct to be disgusted by this.

Corn is definitely one of the causes of this. Because it gives men the feeling that they have access to women from a young age. All they have to do is type a few words and istantly they get access to instant gratification from a woman.

They don't have to speak to the woman, impress her etc.. So I believe Corn is one of the biggest causes of these men that feel "entitled" to women without pretty much any effort.

If Corn was eliminated I genuninely believe many of these incels would man up and actually take the initiative to fix up and become what women are attracted to. This problem didn't exist in our fathers generation before widespread corn addiction.

 

[GemState]

The sad truth is that when a woman have automomy and are educated, more often then not they realize that marriage and a lot of kids is a pretty shit idea. It's fairly rational, I'd come to the same conclusion too if I was one. Problem is this leads to a breakdown of society that looks like modern South Korea, extinction level fertility, loneliness, and marriage rates cratering.

You've got to highly reduce the autonomy of women, or limit their education to not past 18 if you want to not have your society implode in the long run. Think Imperial Japan.

 

[Angelina]

The sad truth is that when a woman have automomy and are educated, more often then not they realize that marriage and a lot of kids is a pretty shit idea. It's fairly rational, I'd come to the same conclusion too if I was one. Problem is this leads to a breakdown of society that looks like modern South Korea, extinction level fertility, loneliness, and marriage rates cratering.

You've got to highly reduce the autonomy of women, or limit their education to not past 18 if you want to not have your society implode in the long run. Think Imperial Japan.

Marriage and kids wouldn’t be that difficult for women if many men weren’t selfish. What’s a shit idea is being saddled with men who only take their needs to account.

South Korea is imploding due to severe sexism mixed with modernization. In one breath women are expected to work due to the economy and in the other breath, they’re not given incentives like cheaper nurseries, paid maternity leave and the list continues.

Refusing to meet women half way, is what creates mindsets like your own. I’ve seen a lot of posts of yours which were unhinged level sexism which is no surprise that your first instinct would be to reduce women’s education and overall well-being with women being the sacrificial lamb so that horrible men can get access.

 

[MBADD]

Marriage and kids wouldn’t be that difficult for women if many weren’t selfish. What’s a shit idea is being saddled with men who only take their needs to account.

South Korea is imploding due to severe sexism mixed with modernization. In one breath women are expected to work due to economy and in the other breath, they’re not given incentives like cheaper nurseries, paid maternity leave and the list continues.

Refusing to meet women half way, is what creates mindsets like your own. I’ve seen a lot of posts of yours which were unhinged level sexism which is no surprise that your first instinct would be to reduce women’s education and overall well-being with women being the sacrificial lamb so that horrible men can get access.

Men need to give up Corn Addiction. Really that's 80% of the problems of Males today.

It doesn't take away from the fact that Women having 100% autonomy is also bad for society, which includes access to all education. They should really be restricted to knowledge that pertains to them and their needs (e.g. I would only want a female doctor looking after my female relatives).

 

[Angelina]

Men need to give up Corn Addiction. Really that's 80% of the problems of Males today.

It doesn't take away from the fact that Women having 100% autonomy is also bad for society, which includes access to all education. They should really be restricted to knowledge that pertains to them and their needs (e.g. I would only want a female doctor looking after my female relatives).

Who are you tell women what they can and cannot learn? It’s actually disturbing and shows you have a God complex. What makes you more worthy of knowledge and not women? Why did God create women as just as intelligent? Why were women given the capacity to learn?

If women weren’t meant to learn, they wouldn’t be given the ability to think in a complex manner and out shine many men in an intellectual capacity. Also, how does banning women from education even work? Does it even extend to be allowed to read certain books? Even with being a doctor one has to be well rounded and the education will touch on other things YOU might consider forbidden?

It’s your ego talking and I truly do believe men like you will be punished in the hereafter for your ungodly God complex and nefarious ego. Ultimately, that’s what your reasoning is based on. It’s The ego.
If we think about it, education is halal as me eating an apple. If you argued that women eating apples should be banned, people would find it weird, but why education? Because the more educated a woman is, the more she has access to greater wealth and stronger mind. So what’s next? Ban inheritance? Ban women from working? Or even better, disable them so that they’ll have even less chance of leaving men, as really that’s what’s it’s down to isn’t it?

You believe women should live to serve you, live to be utilities that make your life easier hence for the doctor argument based on your own wishes since it’s about YOUR female relatives gaining access, women connected to you. Everything is ultimately about YOU.

 

[MBADD]

Who are you tell women what they can and cannot learn? It’s actually disturbing and shows you have a God complex. What makes you more worthy of knowledge and not women? Why did God create women as just as intelligent? Why were women given the capacity to learn?

If women weren’t meant to learn, they wouldn’t be given the ability to think in a complex manner and out shine many men in an intellectual capacity.

It’s your ego talking and I truly to believe men like you will be punished in the hereafter for your ungodly God complex and nefarious ego. Ultimately, that’s what your reasoning is based on.

"Men are the caretakers of women, as men have been provisioned by Allah over women and tasked with supporting them financially. And righteous women are devoutly obedient and, when alone, protective of what Allah has entrusted them with.1 And if you sense ill-conduct from your women, advise them ˹first˺, ˹if they persist,˺ do not share their beds, ˹but if they still persist,˺ then discipline them ˹gently˺.2 But if they change their ways, do not be unjust to them. Surely Allah is Most High, All-Great." 4:24

Not a God complex its God himself saying we have certain rights over you, take it or leave it.

You can see the imbalance it causes in society today. Women are hypergamous in nature only dating up where as Men will have a relationship with a Woman working at Starbucks no problem.

 

[Angelina]

"Men are the caretakers of women, as men have been provisioned by Allah over women and tasked with supporting them financially. And righteous women are devoutly obedient and, when alone, protective of what Allah has entrusted them with.1 And if you sense ill-conduct from your women, advise them ˹first˺, ˹if they persist,˺ do not share their beds, ˹but if they still persist,˺ then discipline them ˹gently˺.2 But if they change their ways, do not be unjust to them. Surely Allah is Most High, All-Great." 4:24

You’re falling into a pitfall with that argument. Show me in that Ayah were it says women can’t be educated? Also, what about women who are educated and don’t want to work?

Furthermore, that Ayah doesn’t even ban women from working or having money? Since men should provide for them, are we going to argue that women having access to money is illegal? Why are women allowed inheritance if men such as their brothers and husbands providing and working for them should ONLY be the their source of wealth?

Since you believe you can ban women from education, does that mean you can ban them from inheritance, ban them from reading, ban them from let’s say eating an apple, ban them from talking? It’s that how much rulership men have over women you believe?

Not a God complex its God himself saying we have certain rights over you, take it or leave it.

What you displayed right theis in fact a God complex. Not one scholar has interpreted that ayah to suggest women shoudn’t be educated. But you did. It’s positively devilish to lie about the deen and use an ayah that has nothing to do with female education and twist it

Thanks for proving my point, you do indeed have a God complex. Fear Allah and don’t play around with the deen. You’re remixing redpill with Islam. You’re insecurities of women wanting better men than you and now led you to a point in which you believe that women will only settle for you if you ban them from outshining you. That’s sad and pathetic. And it’s a crazy how you tried to use the Quran to justify that.

 

[MBADD]

It’s The ego.
If we think about it, education is halal as me eating an apple. If you argued that women eating apples should be banned, people would find it weird, but why education? Because the more educated a woman is, the more she has access to greater wealth and stronger mind. So what’s next? Ban inheritance? Ban women from working? Or even better, disable them so that they’ll have even less chance of leaving men, as really that’s what’s it’s down to isn’t it?

You believe women should live to serve you, live to be utilities that make your life easier hence for the doctor argument based on your own wishes since it’s about YOUR female relatives gaining access, women connected to you. Everything is ultimately about YOU.

Not an ego thing we serve each other or that's how it was back in the day. Men gave up their money and lives to protect and provide for Women and in return Women were loyal to their Men. Why do you think it's a one way street? Right now their is an imbalance a Man can't provide and protect for a Woman because she already gets both of that from the government so essentially the dowlad became your Man so what would you need an actual man for? I get it from the female perspective that's why I'm advocating that we should restrict Female autonomy.

Don't get comfortable with the modern day lifestyle we will be going back to the good old days eventually, maybe not our generation but the subsequent ones, and Women like you will need men like me to protect and provide for you once again.

 

[MBADD]

You’re falling into a pitfall with that argument. Show me in that Ayah were it says women can’t be educated? Also, what about women who are educated and don’t want to work?

Furthermore, that Ayah doesn’t even ban women from working or having money? Since men should provide for them, are we going to argue that women having access to money is illegal? Why are women allowed inheritance if men such as their brothers and husbands providing and working for them should ONLY be the source of wealth?



What you displayed right theis in fact a God complex. Not one scholar has interpreted that ayah to suggest women shoudn’t be educated. But you did. It’s positively devilish to lie about the deen and use an ayah that has nothing to do with female education and twist it

Thanks for proving my point, you do indeed have a God complex. Fear Allah and don’t play around with the deen.

I never said the deen should restrict female education. And technically you're free to learn whatever you want I'm really talking about education for employment.

 

[Angelina]

Not an ego thing we serve each other or that's how it was back in the day. Men gave up their money and lives to protect and provide for Women and in return Women were loyal to their Men.

No, you’re Somali. You’re ancestors were nomads most probably. They worked the land alongside their husbands. The man looked after the camels and the women looked after the sheeps and cows and built the aqal.

As for loyalty it’s a two way street. Loyalty is based on respect and kindness.

Why do you think it's a one way street? Right now their is an imbalance a Man can't provide and protect for a Woman because she already gets both of that from the government so essentially the dowlad became your Man so what would you need an actual man for?

Government? The government also protects you. That’s how I know you’re a low IQ redpiller that’s never seen a war. The police protects you same way it protects me. If you want to do away with law and order just to get a woman, then you’ve fell down a sad and pathetic rabbit hole.

People want men for companionship, love, children, family….a life. If you have such low self esteem that you believe that you can only be wanted as a hated but glorified ATM machine, well that’s sad. Work on yourself as a woman shouldn’t be on the brink of poverty and no education to choose you. With that mindset you’ll always be insecure.

I get it from the female perspective that's why I'm advocating that we should restrict Female autonomy.

What you’re wishing for also restricts the growth of society. You want society to be a lot more dangerous just so that you can get a woman desperate so that she fears random rapists and there is no government, whilst not understanding that in the past, most men didn’t marry or procreate. They died in petty wars or were simply too poor since there weren’t a safety net.

Don't get comfortable with the modern day lifestyle we will be going back to the good old days eventually, maybe not our generation but the subsequent ones, and Women like you will need men like me to protect and provide for you once again.

Just understand in a more primitive setting you’d be suffering a lot as well which is why I find redpillers pathetic.

All the comforts I have benefit you if not more and you can’t even see it as your world view is men vs women and poor me, I’m too repulsive to get a woman to genuinely like me or be loyal.

If you can’t get a woman now, in a world in which financial hypergamy has actually lowered and that’s a statistical fact btw, and not the twisted ones you find in your incel rejects forums, you’d suffer in the past immensely.

 

[GemState]

Marriage and kids wouldn’t be that difficult for women if many men weren’t selfish. What’s a shit idea is being saddled with men who only take their needs to account.

South Korea is imploding due to severe sexism mixed with modernization. In one breath women are expected to work due to the economy and in the other breath, they’re not given incentives like cheaper nurseries, paid maternity leave and the list continues.

Refusing to meet women half way, is what creates mindsets like your own. I’ve seen a lot of posts of yours which were unhinged level sexism which is no surprise that your first instinct would be to reduce women’s education and overall well-being with women being the sacrificial lamb so that horrible men can get access.

Again, I'm looking at through a strictly productivity point of view. The longer women spend in school = lower fertility. That simple. It simply makes no sense for a society to just let it's most capable women become a genetic dead end. That is how you get an idiocracy with society just degrading.

It's not a good spiral, and it happens everywhere in the world from the US to Asia to Africa. I'm not saying women should be kept in Taliban like conditions, but that the whole structure needs a huge revamp.

There's an stat of where women with a degree in Ethiopia have less than 2 kids while women with no education have about 5-6. You can't really do anything too transformative unless that dynamic is flipped.

 

[mohamedismail]

You’re falling into a pitfall with that argument. Show me in that Ayah were it says women can’t be educated? Also, what about women who are educated and don’t want to work?

Furthermore, that Ayah doesn’t even ban women from working or having money? Since men should provide for them, are we going to argue that women having access to money is illegal? Why are women allowed inheritance if men such as their brothers and husbands providing and working for them should ONLY be the their source of wealth?

Since you believe you can ban women from education, does that mean you can ban them from inheritance, ban them from reading, ban them from let’s say eating an apple, ban them from talking? It’s that how much rulership men have over women you believe?

What you displayed right theis in fact a God complex. Not one scholar has interpreted that ayah to suggest women shoudn’t be educated. But you did. It’s positively devilish to lie about the deen and use an ayah that has nothing to do with female education and twist it

Thanks for proving my point, you do indeed have a God complex. Fear Allah and don’t play around with the deen. You’re remixing redpill with Islam. You’re insecurities of women wanting better men than you and now led you to a point in which you believe that women will only settle for you if you ban them from outshining you. That’s sad and pathetic. And it’s a crazy how you tried to use the Quran to justify that.

Although I disagree with the some of the brothers points. It is fair to say that extreme Hypergamy is also negatively affecting a lot of women not just men.

There are a lot of women that are doing very well with PhDs, 6 figure salary's and comfortable lives. Some of these women are in their late 20s or early 30s. But they can't find a man to settle with.

Why? Because there Hypergamy won't let them. Only 5% of men in the country make 6 figures +, out of all of them take away the ones that are married, the ones she may not like. That lady is left with a tiny pool of men probably 0.01% of men, which makes it practically impossible for her to find a husband.

So for every incel out there, there is also ab equivelant of a 30+ woman who can't find the man she wants and is unwilling to settle. So this problem affects both men and women.