Can someone make a vahaduo distance panel of different Somalis to current Levantine groups

[ZBR]

I know we share alles from old maternal inputs that are not shown in our Y Dna or Mtdna

Giving homage to our Ayeeyo Shami (Our Levantine Grandmothers) can someone make those grey vahaduo charts showing our distance to groups that carry Nafatuian

Mehri and Hadrami Yemenis carry Natufian-related DNA, which may have entered their lineage before their migration into the southern Arabian regions and this could make for a marked genetic nearness with us (Also both these Yemeni groups have heavy impact on Peninsular Arabs and their Bedouins)

Can you use samples of Palestinians both in the West Bank and Gaza (they have very high Levantine Neolithic and Natufian ancestry)
Jordanian city dwellers in Aqba and Irbid Jordanian Bedouins
Syrian Bedouins etc

 

[ZBR]

* not in our y or mtdna

 

[ZBR]

I’m also intrigued by our EA HG Ayeeyo’s too and do think we learned and gained a lot from them

 

[Garaad Awal]

We would be closest to the Bedouins of the Levant and then Palestinian/Jordanian Farmer Arabs and then the Western Syrians/Lebanese Arabs. The further north or further east (Mesopotamia) the more distant they will be to us.

Makes zero difference as majority of their ancestries besides the Neolithic Levantine part is alien to us. We are NE Africans Back Migrants + Neolithic Levantine + Black Eastern Saharan (peaks in South Sudanese).

 

[ZBR]

We would be closest to the Bedouins of the Levant and then Palestinian/Jordanian Farmer Arabs and then the Western Syrians/Lebanese Arabs. The further north or further east (Mesopotamia) the more distant they will be to us.

Makes zero difference as majority of their ancestries besides the Neolithic Levantine part is alien to us. We are NE Africans Back Migrants + Neolithic Levantine + Black Eastern Saharan (peaks in South Sudanese).

Could be true but some might might carry different Iberomaurusian alles but regardless I do think that our culture is influenced by that Levantine cultural and genetic heritage especially our drive to be productive, restlessness etc relatively

 

[ZBR]

Our Nafatuian might not be exactly the same too and lack the Steppe, Iranian, or European ancestry, that arrived in the Levant thousands of years later.

Later Neolithic Levantines had some Anatolian and possibly Zagros-related (Iran_N) admixture that earlier lacked.

 

[ZBR]

Based on what I know, most Somali males carry E-V32, which descends from the Iberomaurusians' E-M78; and most Somali males and females carry various sub-Saharan African haplogroups ("L" haplogroups) [Link]. So, Somalis appear to be a mixture of Iberomaurusian males who migrated into the Horn and mated with indigenous African females. However, when modeling Somalis using Vahaduo, the program will choose Natufian rather than Iberomaurusian in order to model part of Somalis' ancestry.

Collectively, this all implies that Somalis paternally descend from a mixture of Iberomaurusian males and Natufian females. More than likely, Natufians migrated into North Africa and the females were taken by the Iberomaurusian males; and their mixed male progeny then migrated into the Horn of Africa and mated with indigenous African females, thereby creating Somalis (and the other Afro-Eurasian Horners).

The Iberomaurusians and the Natufians shared ancestry; the former's E-M78 and the latter's E-Z830 both descend from E-M35:

• E-M215 (E1b1b) -> E-M35 -> E-L539 -> E-M78 (E1b1b1a1) [Link]
• E-M215 (E1b1b) -> E-M35 -> E-Z827 -> E-Z830 [Link]

However, the Iberomaurusian culture began ~25,000 years ago, while the Natufian culture began ~15,550 years ago. This implies that the Natufians were an offshoot of the Iberomaurusians. Additionally, E-M35 was the most downstream haplogroup in the paternal lineage of the Iberomaurusians and the Natufians that existed ~25,000 years ago, which implies that it was the paternal haplogroup of the first Iberomaurusians.

E-M35 originated in the Horn of Africa according to phylogenetic analyses, which implies that the Iberomaurusians were partly sub-Saharan African / indigenous Horn African. This is consistent with peer-reviewed scientific studies that have concluded that the Iberomaurusians were partly sub-Saharan African; for example, Ancient West African Foragers In the Context of African Population History [Link] models the Iberomaurusians of Taforalt as deriving 54% of their ancestry from the same source as SSAs such as Mota, the SSA component of the Agaw, and West Africans & Bantus [Link].

This also explains why the Natufians have been determined to have been 6% Omotic (SSA) in the peer-reviewed scientific article, Re-analysis of Whole Genome Sequence Data From 279 Ancient Eurasians Reveals Substantial Ancestral Heterogeneity (2018) [Link], which states the following:



As already implied, the Iberomaurusians and the Natufians were partly Eurasian; the Iberomaurusians carried Eurasian Maternal Haplogroups M1b and U6a [Link], and the Natufians carried Eurasian Maternal Haplogroups J2 and N1 [Link, Table 2]. So, when their mixed progeny migrated into the Horn of Africa and mated with indigenous African females, they brought Eurasian DNA with them, which explains why Somalis have been determined to be 40% West Eurasian, according to peer-reviewed scientific studies, such as Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population [Link].



Note that there were archaic humans known as Aterians were who present in North Africa between 150 kya and 20 kya, which overlaps with the first 5000 years of the Iberomaurusian culture therein - and which overlaps with the the time period at which E-M35 formed (34,700 years ago, according to YFull). Therefore, it's likely that the carriers of E-M35 who migrated to North Africa from the Horn of Africa mixed with the Aterians; the product of this intermixing would have been the Ancestral North Africans (ANA). Therefore, the Iberomaurusians - being a mixture of ANA and Eurasians - likely had Aterian ancestry, which is consistent with their robust mandibles and overall robust anatomy - which are unlike those of anatomically modern humans.

Here's a quote from the peer-reviewed scientific article, The relevance of late MSA [Middle Stone Age] mandibles on the emergence of modern morphology in Northern Africa (2022) [Link].



Therefore, the Iberomaurusians were a mixture of anatomically modern humans from the Horn of Africa who carried E-M35, anatomically modern humans from Eurasia (who carried M1b and U6a), and very possibly Aterians.

As for the Natufians, their African ancestry (Aterian and SSA) was less than that of the Iberomaurusians, which can be explained by their presence in the Middle East and their subsequent intermixing with full-blooded Eurasians.

Therefore, Somalis probably have a bit of Aterian ancestry from via their Iberomaurusian and Natufian ancestry.

For a full breakdown of the origin of the Iberomaurusians and Natufians, read my article here. Also, here is my Human Ancestry Graph for Africans, part of which represents what I've explained.

One of favorite and most comprehensive post on this topic

 

[The alchemist]

We're closer to Near Eastern groups that got higher ANA and SSA. That's what the distance is mostly weighted by. The rest is really the same difference, as it's defined by deep drift cutoff.

 

[Xareen]

G25 was designed so that its fundamental ability would be to differentiate between African and non-African groups. This means that we will always appear as being very, very distant to Levantines and by extent all non-Africans on Vahaduo.

What you seem to be after, I assume, is seeing how much drift we share with them because you (mistakingly) think that we descend directly from them.

By other metrics, we are relatively close to them. Even Dinkas are genetically closer to Levantines than they are to West Africans using other methods, and with our African component being even more proximous to OOA than Dinkas and the other half of our ancestry being Eurasian, we can be described as being close to us from our, ego-moving relations perception. To them, we are as distant as anything and Europeans are close to them. We just occupy that no-man's-land with our Afitic brethren, shout-out @Shimbiris for that one

 

[Shimbiris]

We're closer to Near Eastern groups that got higher ANA and SSA. That's what the distance is mostly weighted by. The rest is really the same difference, as it's defined by deep drift cutoff.

Yes, I've explained this before. The deepest genetic drift split among Modern Humans is the Eurasian-bottleneck and stuff like "distance" in G25 or Fst distances are greatly amped up by someone being SSA or having any amount of SSA ancestry as someone who also has Eurasian roots. Even us being 5-10% different from another Horner group in terms of Dinka-like ancestry exaggerates our distance from them quite a bit when, in reality, we are made up of basically all the same things within the last few thousand years and are very closely related to them.

When truly assessing the "closeness" of populations you need to take a multi-factorial approach and consider everything from recent shared roots/components to time-divergences between shared components (if it's possible to calculate them) then the context around the Fst and PCA clustering distances such as whether something like the Eurasian bottle-neck or the East to West Eurasian split is exaggerating the distance.

Genetic drift is funny stuff. As you know, two populations that shared ancestry as recently as 500-1,000 years ago can have very high Fst or PCA distances simply because they were small in number and one or both of them experienced some kind of bottleneck; hence the crazy distances between Hunter-Gatherer groups across Europe during the Paleolithic. Based on Fst you'd think there were multiple East to West Eurasian-like splits going on on that one continent back then when some of these HG groups may have shared ancestry relatively recently.

So yeah, any distances from MENAs or Eurasians and us should be taken with a bag of salt. In reality pretty much ~50% or more of most Horners' ancestry is shared with MENAs like Arabians and Levantines from within the last 3,000-15,000 years, considering that most of these groups also have ANA and a bit of Dinka-like SSA.