GENETICS Bajuni (with a Somali mother) DNA results

[Idilinaa]

go to the 23&me subreddit and search Bajuni in the search bar.

I found the link:
He doesn't have a fully ethnic Somali mother either says her dad is from Yemen and his Dad is Bajuni but my guess it's probably the ones closer near the Kenya border.

I only know that for my dad, my moms side her dad is from Yemen and I only know her mom is from Somalia nothing else.

 

[Idilinaa]

Never knew this subreddit posted diffrerent results of people with Somali ancestry

It would be interesting to surf through:





Aside from people with interesting mixed ancestry, this is pretty much the boring standard Somali results:

 

[The alchemist]

There was very little assimilation of Orma, Boran or Arsi and you can see that by looking at the FST (measure of genetic distance between populations) between Ethiopian Somalis and Somalis from Somalia. The FST between the two populations is extremely low at 0.0008.

If the Ogaden had absorbed more Arsi, Boran and Orma in their expansion, the FST would be much higher than 0.0008 given how distant these groups are genetically to Somalis.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.348599v2.full

Northern Somalis generally abhor assimilation. You can see this in that the Wardai Orma (now Known as Warday Cali) still exist as a stand alone clan in Jubaland and have an MP in the Somali parliament. Sheekhaal and various Dir clans (Bajamaal, Gaadsan etc..) have lived among the Ogaden for centuries without being assimilated at all.

View attachment 217901
https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1525/aa.1961.63.1.02a00060

The demographic expansion of the Ogaden is due to fast population growth as they conquered new grazing land. More land means more livestock which means more milk & meat which mean more children survive into adulthood which means rapid population growth.

Clans on the periphery, I guess, will have a greater chance of having segments of its demographic blurring the lines (not assuming it is the rule, but we know it took place, with Oromos as well). Often when sampling certain measures are controlled for, like being asked if your last 4 grandparents were full Somali, to get a better reading of ethnic non-admixed Somalis in studies related to nutritional science, pharmacogenomics, etc (same samples are often used across several research aims, and there are other sampling considerations, such as, to what degree the sample-set is representative). Then the statistical distance measure will become similar across the board. In fact, I would go as far as saying that if we included the "peripheral" clans, the FST would still be relatively low. But this, I believe, will not rationally explain away the tiny minority with substantial gene flow. And would further grant that, although admixture will probably occur more at the ends, it does not necessarily mean a natural gradient. That is not a given factoring in conditions that limit this. There are aspects of social and cultural barriers for such a phenomenon.

Taken from the study:

(A higher proportion of the Amhara-Tigrye_Oromo majority’s admixtures were observed in Ethiopian Somali than the Somali from mainland Somalia..)

^Although this can be one of the studies with a low sample size, and a couple of highly mixed individuals that carry Ethiopian-related genetics that skew. But in the practical sense, this skew will statistically more likely occur for Ethiopian Somalis and increase in significance as you move toward the edges. This is not supposed to mean there is a rule.

Despite the fact that Oromos share long geographic boundaries with the Ethiopian Somali, the results in this study don’t show genetic relationship of the two better than that each has with others in the major Group 1.

^This is very impressive, but it is followed by:

This might be due to the isolation of the sampling areas of the two communities. We still believe a strong genetic contact of the two along their boundaries. However, the contact between the two people is likely during the post 16th-century Oromo migration (Lewis 1966). Hence, their genetic relation may quickly decay as we go away from their current shared areas.

With the last sentence, in particular, I don't think there is a gradient thing going on. There can be containment that can present itself in abrupt forms, but there are also possibly higher admixture rates as well overall, that might not change things to a great deal in the statistical sense, but somehow change the conversation into accepting such things takes place (to a relatively minor degree).

 

[Libaax-Joore]

@convincation this lady fadumo dayib is wardey ali she claims wardey ali are DIR when everbody know wardey ali are assimilated borana

 

[Som]

@Al-Ma'mun

Have you ever seen results from Kenyan Bajunis? I think they may have some proto-Somaloid admixture as their land used to be inhabited by the Booni who (before mixing with Swahilis) were a mixture of Somalis (Garre type) and hunter-gatherers.

Bajuunis themselves have tribes that claim to have Somali lineage

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Bajuunis themselves have tribes that claim to have Somali lineage

Somali as in Af-maxaa speaking tribes or the local southern Somaloid heritage?

 

[Som]

Somali as in Af-maxaa speaking tribes or the local southern Somaloid heritage?

The katwa bajuunis claim to be Garre in origin. This is also supported by the fact they are pastoralists. Other bajuunis say that the katwa are recent in the bajuuni community and that they descend from people who fought against Bantus in the past. History tells us the Swahili/Bantu peoples of the Kenyan coast had many conflicts with oromos and somalis(garre) for lands in the last few centuries

 

[Som]

Somali as in Af-maxaa speaking tribes or the local southern Somaloid heritage?

It's not unlikely though that some bajuunis may have maxaa tiri ancestry especially from southern Daroods mainly Ogaadeen who pushed them further south

 

[Som]

I found the link:
He doesn't have a fully ethnic Somali mother either says her dad is from Yemen and his Dad is Bajuni but my guess it's probably the ones closer near the Kenya border.

That's too much Somali ancestry for someone who is that much mixed.
If his dad is 100% bajuuni and his mom is Somali-yemeni then he should be less than 50% somali.
It's likely his mom is sheegato or exaggerating Yemeni ancestry , maybe she is a 70% Somali benadiris cad cad or maybe his bajuuni dad has significant Somali and ancestry

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

That's too much Somali ancestry for someone who is that much mixed.
If his dad is 100% bajuuni and his mom is Somali-yemeni then he should be less than 50% somali.
It's likely his mom is sheegato or exaggerating Yemeni ancestry , maybe she is a 70% Somali benadiris cad cad or maybe his bajuuni dad has significant Somali and ancestry

I think the mom is pure Somali as he doesn't score any peninsular Arab.My actual female 2nd cousin irl has a Yemeni grandfather and she scores 25% Peninsular Arab.

 

[anonimo]

There was very little assimilation of Orma, Boran or Arsi and you can see that by looking at the FST (measure of genetic distance between populations) between Ethiopian Somalis and Somalis from Somalia. The FST between the two populations is extremely low at 0.0008.

If the Ogaden had absorbed more Arsi, Boran and Orma in their expansion, the FST would be much higher than 0.0008 given how distant these groups are genetically to Somalis.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.348599v2.full

Northern Somalis generally abhor assimilation. You can see this in that the Wardai Orma (now Known as Warday Cali) still exist as a stand alone clan in Jubaland and have an MP in the Somali parliament. Sheekhaal and various Dir clans (Bajamaal, Gaadsan etc..) have lived among the Ogaden for centuries without being assimilated at all.

View attachment 217901
https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1525/aa.1961.63.1.02a00060

The demographic expansion of the Ogaden is due to fast population growth as they conquered new grazing land. More land means more livestock which means more milk & meat which mean more children survive into adulthood which means rapid population growth.

The Bajamal were part of the Ajuuran sphere of influence and did live among the Ogaden. Even today, they border the Ajuuran and Reer Barre in the Western part of Qalafe District.

You are right nonetheless as there was a division between Aw and Ogaden. Aw were religious clans whose ancestors welcomed by the Ogaden because of their religious knowledge. Aw Qudub, Ashraf, Gaadsan, Xeer (Fiqi Kheyr and Fiqi Yaxye Surre) and even some non-Ogaden Daarood lineages.

As for assimilation of others, be they Somali or non-Somali, time will tell as more Somalis take YFull tests. Iacovacci's samples contained T among Eastern K5 Somalis, not saying they were necessarily Ogaden but they could possibly be as there are already T Ogadens on 23andme. In another study based in Godey, T was also found among those samples. We don't even know how diverse the E-V32 found in K5 is hence why I emphasise time will tell.

 

[reer]

The Bajamal were part of the Ajuuran sphere of influence and did live among the Ogaden. Even today, they border the Ajuuran and Reer Barre in the Eastern part of Qalafe District.

You are right nonetheless as there was a division between Aw and Ogaden. Aw were religious clans whose ancestors welcomed by the Ogaden because of their religious knowledge. Aw Qudub, Ashraf, Gaadsan, Xeer (Fiqi Kheyr and Fiqi Yaxye Surre) and even some non-Ogaden Daarood lineages.

As for assimilation of others, be they Somali or non-Somali, time will tell as more Somalis take YFull tests. Iacovacci's samples contained T among Eastern K5 Somalis, not saying they were necessarily Ogaden but they could possibly be as there are already T Ogadens on 23andme. In another study based in Godey, T was also found among those samples. We don't even know how diverse the E-V32 found in K5 is hence why I emphasise time will tell.

remember the islamic xukum of kids of married adulterers that they usually belong to the bed. so there will always be a few outlier results.

 

[anonimo]

remember the islamic xukum of kids of married adulterers that they usually belong to the bed. so there will always be a few outlier results.

I doubt Gogol Dhaaf was common among us Somalis. If it happened, it would be usually Tolka doing the cucking considering how we lived in isolated communities.

 

[anonimo]

The Bajamal were part of the Ajuuran sphere of influence and didn't live among the Ogaden. Even today, they border the Ajuuran and Reer Barre in the Western part of Qalafe District.

You are right nonetheless as there was a division between Aw Iyo Ogaden. Aw were religious clans whose ancestors welcomed by the Ogaden because of their religious knowledge. Aw Qudub, Ashraf, Gaadsan, Xeer (Fiqi Kheyr and Fiqi Yaxye Surre) and even some non-Ogaden Daarood lineages.

As for assimilation of others, be they Somali or non-Somali, time will tell as more Somalis take YFull tests. Iacovacci's samples contained T among Eastern K5 Somalis, not saying they were necessarily Ogaden but they could possibly be as there are already T Ogadens on 23andme. In another study based in Godey, T was also found among those samples. We don't even know how diverse the E-V32 found in K5 is hence why I emphasise time will tell.

Edit to the above.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

The Bajamal were part of the Ajuuran sphere of influence and did live among the Ogaden. Even today, they border the Ajuuran and Reer Barre in the Western part of Qalafe District.

You are right nonetheless as there was a division between Aw and Ogaden. Aw were religious clans whose ancestors welcomed by the Ogaden because of their religious knowledge. Aw Qudub, Ashraf, Gaadsan, Xeer (Fiqi Kheyr and Fiqi Yaxye Surre) and even some non-Ogaden Daarood lineages.

As for assimilation of others, be they Somali or non-Somali, time will tell as more Somalis take YFull tests. Iacovacci's samples contained T among Eastern K5 Somalis, not saying they were necessarily Ogaden but they could possibly be as there are already T Ogadens on 23andme. In another study based in Godey, T was also found among those samples. We don't even know how diverse the E-V32 found in K5 is hence why I emphasise time will tell.

What I am arguing against is an idea that is common among many Somalis. They see that Ogaden live in a large area, and then proceed to assume that this is because of assimilation.

Somalis don't have a good grasp of the story of how Ogaden and Marehan ended up taking over such vast amounts of territory. This lack of knowledge is what leads to claims of assimilation, or stories of how Ahmed Madoobe, or MSB or the Italians brought OG, Marehan or Harti to Jubaland. The biggest event of the last 200 years of Somali history, the southward migration of the Darod, is a black hole in the minds of the majority of Somalis.

 

[anonimo]

What I am arguing against is an idea that is common among many Somalis. They see that Ogaden live in a large area, and then proceed to assume that this is because of assimilation.

Somalis don't have a good grasp of the story of how Ogaden and Marehan ended up taking over such vast amounts of territory. This lack of knowledge is what leads to claims of assimilation, or stories of how Ahmed Madoobe, or MSB or the Italians brought OG, Marehan or Harti to Jubaland. The biggest event of the last 200 years of Somali history, the southward migration of the Darod, is a black hole in the minds of the majority of Somalis.

Not for the Historically aware. Self-proclaimed politicians like that individual you posted are ignoramuses like FOB Somalis from all clans. I will be the first one to call out any Dir person that claims Orma are the native Dir inhabitants of Jubbaland, only the Biimaal of Jammaame have a claim to this. The Wardei are clearly the remnants of the Orma that remained in Jubbaland. Anything West of the Jubba River is Daarood, all territories East of it are Rahanweyn, Bantu and Dir.

However, you also have to acknowledge that it was not initially a straightforward case of invasion in the case of West Jubbaland. The first batch of migrants arrived seeking sanctuary (Ogaden and MX). When these OG and MX first arrived in Jubbaland, the two dominant powers were the Bardheere Religious Xeer and the Gasargude Sultanate who intermittently waged war on Gaalo Madoow. This History is also never publicised. It is only after the smallpox epidemic which weakened the Orma, and the later arrival of Daarood nomads armed with firearms that expansion took off in earnest.

 

[Libaax-Joore]

What I am arguing against is an idea that is common among many Somalis. They see that Ogaden live in a large area, and then proceed to assume that this is because of assimilation.

Somalis don't have a good grasp of the story of how Ogaden and Marehan ended up taking over such vast amounts of territory. This lack of knowledge is what leads to claims of assimilation, or stories of how Ahmed Madoobe, or MSB or the Italians brought OG, Marehan or Harti to Jubaland. The biggest event of the last 200 years of Somali history, the southward migration of the Darod, is a black hole in the minds of the majority of Somalis.

 

[Libaax-Joore]

My jifo osman mohamud are in jubboyinka over 200 years and u will never see beesha reer joore osman mohamud claiming other clan let alone oromo or bajuuni

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Thanks to the Daarood expansions south an Cisse in the Awash River can communicate perfectly with an Ogaden in Garissa.Awoowo E-Y18629 would be proud of y'all

 

[anonimo]

My jifo osman mohamud are in jubboyinka over 200 years and u will never see beesha reer joore osman mohamud claiming other clan let alone oromo or bajuuni

Come on man, we are in the Culture and History section, not FKD.

Maxa Tidhi Somalis only arrived in great numbers around the Middle of the 19th century. Your clan arrived roughly then too, not more than 200 years ago.