Austria now has mandatory covid inoculation (forced vax)

[anonimo]

So you agree with me that Austria is part of Greater Germany

Any Historian worth his salt would never utter the Blasphemy that Austria is not German.

Read up on European History bro. Austria was the dominant German power until the Kleine Deutschland policy of Prussia defeated the Hapsburgs in the 19th Century. Before that, Osterreich reigned supreme over all other German States and was the head of the German Holy Roman Empire which was dissolved by Napoleon. The Hapsburgs were opposed to German Nationalism as they led a multicultural Empire. Prussia was less concerned with a plural empire as they had less minorities. They defeated the Austrians and Bavarians paving the way for a more homogeneous smaller German State.

Ironically, both ruling families of Austria and Prussia descend from Royal families which were first prominent in Switzerland and Swabia.

 

[TekNiKo]

Any Historian worth his salt would never utter the Blasphemy that Austria is not German.

Read up on European History bro. Austria was the dominant German power until the Kleine Deutschland policy of Prussia defeated the Hapsburgs in the 19th Century. Before that, Osterreich reigned supreme over all other German States and was the head of the German Holy Roman Empire which was dissolved by Napoleon. The Hapsburgs were opposed to German Nationalism as they led a multicultural Empire. Prussia was less concerned with a plural empire as they had less minorities. They defeated the Austrians and Bavarians paving the way for a more homogeneous smaller German State.

Ironically, both ruling families of Austria and Prussia descend from Royal families which were first prominent in Switzerland and Swabia.

I already knew this due to my fascination with Roman history, many Germanic tribes resided in modern day Austria, I was just surprised @Apollo didnt know basic history despite residing in Germany LOL. He reminds me of Americans

 

[anonimo]

I already knew this due to my fascination with Roman history, many Germanic tribes resided in modern day Austria, I was just surprised @Apollo didnt know basic history despite residing in Germany LOL. He reminds me of Americans

Apollo was right in some regards.

He is mainly refereeing to their non Germanic admixture, not the socio-historical formation of the diverse Western German tribal confederations. Modern Germans are the result of assimilation, confederation and conquest. This is all evident in the genetic diversity of Germans from the Lowlands to the Alps.

When I say Germans, the Dutch are included by default because I am not referring to modern Nation states. In English, Dutch historically referred to West Germans as a whole hence why colonial Germans in USA were called Dutchmen. You see a Saxon is linguistically closer to a Dutch speaker than he is to an Alemannic speaker. Due to the politics of Nationalism, WW2 and the dominance of a German Standard in modern Germany, many non-educated folk assume that there is a difference between Germans and modern Dutch. Germans in Aachen and other Lowland speakers etc. are closer to Dutch Germans than they are to Austro-Bavarians or Alemannic Germans. A lot of Eastern Dutch are Saxons though, and some are Frisians.

The original Deutschland Uber Alles references the traditional territorial span of Germans proper. It was composed before the creation of modern Germany. The Meuse in the following translation of the anthem refers to the river and it's drainage area in the Netherlands.


Were it not for WW1, the Treaty of Versailles and a certain Austrian corporal, cities like Danzig and Breslau; the Sudetenland; Sud Tyrol; Alsace and Memel would fly the German flag.

 

[Aurelian]

Very good, there were news of another lockdown because of the new wave, I can't bear that shit, force them to take the jab

 

[Apollo]

It is a bit more complex than that.

Before the Franks came to dominate the rest of the Germans, there were several Stem Duchies; Alemannic, Bavarian, Saxon etc.

The Austrians, non Voralberg, are descendants of Bavarians who themselves were a mixed tribal confederation containing Celts etc. but dominated by Germanic tribesmen. Austria started off as a March which Bavarians settled hence why the Bavarian dialect is spoken in most of Austria, Alemannic Voralberg being the exception. There is no difference between a Bavarian proper and an Austrian particularly in the areas where Central Bavarian is spoken. Slavic influence is greater in Carinthia and obviously Vienna due to its historical multicultural status during the Hapsburg Empire. Nonetheless, the Austrians are no less German than other Germans in the borderlands. Even the West Germans you referenced, to a lesser extent, assimilated others and had a two tier society. The Franks, ancestors of Dutch and Ripurian Franks, assimilated Celts and Roman citizens in the lands that they expanded into. So did Western Alemannic Germans in Switzerland, Alsace etc. The purest, or closest population to ancient West Germans, would probably be North-Western Saxons, Frisians and some of the Dutch in the Northern Lowlands. Probably some English too in Eastern England, East Anglia, who do not have much Celtic ancestry.

As for Eastern Germany, the land stretching all the way to Konigsberg before WW2, it was formed when the Saxons expanded into the Slavic territories of the Wends, Sorbs, Pomeranian Slavs, and Baltic Prussians who were assimilated during the Teutonic Crusades against pagan Balts. However, despite the Germanisation of the above groups, a lot of current East Germans/East Saxons/Prussians descend from ethnic Germans who were brought into these conquered territories as settlers, artisans, clergy, administrators etc.

It is ironic though that the two greatest German States, Austria and Prussia, in the past 500 years have been those that came about due to Historical German expansion East. I read a first person account of the War in the Eastern front from a German soldier's perspective. In it, he spoke of a scene where a Southern German from Lake Constance was being mocked by a fair headed Prussian for his 'non-Aryan' appearance. The Prussian himself might have been a descendant of the 'Aryan' looking Balts who were assimilated by the Saxons. Bloody Humanity!

Impressive you know this stuff.

When travelling through Germany, I sometimes even notice a slight physical difference between them. Especially between the Low Saxon vs the other ones. The Low Saxon ones look very Swedish-like, while the other ones (Bavarians etc.) have more of this pan-European look.

He is mainly refereeing to their non Germanic admixture, not the socio-historical formation of the diverse Western German tribal confederations. Modern Germans are the result of assimilation, confederation and conquest. This is all evident in the genetic diversity of Germans from the Lowlands to the Alps.

Yeah, I was mainly talking about the ethnic origins stuff here, not their culture.

 

[anonimo]

Impressive you know this stuff.

When travelling through Germany, I sometimes even notice a slight physical difference between them. Especially between the Low Saxon vs the other ones. The Low Saxon ones look very Swedish-like, while the other ones (Bavarians etc.) have more of this pan-European look.



Yeah, I was mainly talking about the ethnic origins stuff here, not their culture.

You have travelled through German speaking countries and the Netherlands I assume. Have you noticed how the Austro-Bavarians/Swiss are also, on average, not as tall as the Saxons? The South definitely has more admixture than the far North, be it Romano-Celtic, Slav etc.

If it was not for Frankish dominance of Western Europe, the map of Germanic speaking Western Europe would probably resemble the diverse Slavic countries. We might have had Bavarian, Frankish, Alemannic and Saxon states all speaking their own languages instead of just Germany, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands etc. At least the Swiss have maintained their Alemannic languages socially even though Standard High German is used formally. The Lombards, Ostrogoths Visigoths, Burgundians, Western Suebi and Vandals were already in the process of assimilating into the host populations they conquered so they would probably end up like the Franks who settled in France giving the country it's name and it's noble elites.

Coming back to Austria, not surprised with what have they done. They are what Germans would have been were it not for Nazi Guilt. Some of them have never reconciled with their Nazi past because the WW2 victors let them get away with their Nazi crimes hence why you have a party founded by former Nazis being a force in local politics. It is only recently that it has come to light that they were overrepresented in the Nazi killing machine.

Amon Goeth from Schindler's list always come to mind when I think of Nazi Austrians.


Then again, one cannot hate Austria for it has produced geniuses of Classical Music, Beethoven was an honorary Austrian and his Ode To Joy in German sang by Austrians melts the heart of this Germanophile.

 

[convincation]

@anonimo @Apollo

This is very interesting stuff. I have a question

How Germanic are the English? I’ve always thought they were just Celts conquered by a few Germanic tribesmen from saxony and then language shifted. I’ve never really believed the whole “coming from saxony and populating most of an already inhabited island” thing.

 

[anonimo]

@anonimo @Apollo

This is very interesting stuff. I have a question

How Germanic are the English? I’ve always thought they were just Celts conquered by a few Germanic tribesmen from saxony and then language shifted. I’ve never really believed the whole “coming from saxony and populating most of an already inhabited island” thing.

South East/East/Central England and Lowland Scotland are very Germanic. The Saxons, Angles and Jutes subjugated the native Romano-Celtic population that came under their authority whilst the Western and far North Brits held their line hence why you still have Celtic Brits in Wales, Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands. This is where the Legend of King Arthur stems from. Also, look up Gildas's book on the Anglo Saxon invasion. Some native Brits assimilated but not as equals, they were sort of second class citizens as one would expect.

The Angles, Saxons and Jutes are what gave England it's English identity. But even they were conquered by a French-Scandinavian elite, the Normans, who had a lasting impact on the English Language and the History of the country. The entire English elite were wiped out and those who resisted were killed, read up on the Harrying of the North. From being Lords of the Land, they were reduced to peasants. The Norman influence Latinised the English Language, this is how the unadulterated English Language probably sounded like, it is close to Frisian, Saxon and Dutch.


Next time you come across Middlesex, Wessex etc., remember that it refers to the different Saxon settlements. Middle Saxons and West Saxons in the case of the above two. Essex is East Saxons. Angles settled North of them all the way to Lowland Scotland. The Jutes in the Kent area mainly.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

South East/East/Central England and Lowland Scotland are very Germanic. The Saxons, Angles and Jutes subjugated the native Romano-Celtic population that came under their authority whilst the Western and far North Brits held their line hence why you still have Celtic Brits in Wales, Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands. This is where the Legend of King Arthur stems from. Also, look up Gildas's book on the Anglo Saxon invasion. Some native Brits assimilated but not as equals, they were sort of second class citizens as one would expect.

The Angles, Saxons and Jutes are what gave England it's English identity. But even they were conquered by a French-Scandinavian elite, the Normans, who had a lasting impact on the English Language and the History of the country. The entire English elite were wiped out and those who resisted were killed, read up on the Harrying of the North. From being Lords of the Land, they were reduced to peasants. The Norman influence Latinised the English Language, this is how the unadulterated English Language probably sounded like, it is close to Frisian, Saxon and Dutch.


Next time you come across Middlesex, Wessex etc., remember that it refers to the different Saxon settlements. Middle Saxons and West Saxons in the case of the above two. Essex is East Saxons. Angles settled North of them all the way to Lowland Scotland. The Jutes in the Kent area mainly.

Good stuff sxb. Here's a fun fact: When the Anglo-Saxons [and some other Germanic groups] invaded Britannia they labelled the Romano-Britons "wealh" which basically meant Alien/foreigner and is the root word for modern ethnic name "Welsh".

It's hilarious how the Anglo-Saxon settlers considered the local/natives as foreigners on their land

 

[anonimo]

Good stuff sxb. Here's a fun fact: When the Anglo-Saxons [and some other Germanic groups] invaded Britannia they labelled the Romano-Britons "wealh" which basically meant Alien/foreigner and is the root word for modern ethnic name "Welsh".

It's hilarious how the Anglo-Saxon settlers considered the local/natives as foreigners on their land

I am familiar with that term. Ironic how the Welsh still use this English term as an ethnonym.

The Anglo Saxons (English) had set up an apartheid society in parts of Britain where they dominated. For instance, the blood money for killing an Anglo-Saxon was much higher than that of a Briton. The practice of enslaving conquered people continued even after they embraced Christianity. When they invaded the Celtic South-West in the 9th-10th century, a section of the population were enslaved. It is not surprising that 600 years after they settled in England, 10% of its population were slaves. It should also be noted that Anglo-Saxons, to a lesser extent, also sold each other into slavery during their internal wars.

One good thing to come out of the Norman conquest was that slavery was abolished and it also stopped the apartheid that subjugated unassimilated Britons in places where they came under the authority of the English. They replaced it with a new apartheid, one where the Normans lorded over all. It also paved the way for an English identity that no longer differentiated between Anglo-Saxons and the people they assimilated. They were all in the same peasant class. Hence, why a large percentage of English ancestry is native Briton, especially the further West you go.

Continental Ancient Germans also used 'Welsch' to refer to the non-German people they bordered, be they Roman Citizens, Slavs or Celts. What the Anglo-Saxons did (Apartheid) in England was replicated in other parts of the Roman Empire where the Ancient Germans expanded into. Visigoths in Spain; Bavarians in Southern Germany/Austria; Lombards in Northern Italy; Franks in lands West of the Rhine; Alemannic Germans in Switzerland/Swabia/Alsace. The gradual conversion of the above confederations to Catholicism and the Frankish dominance of Western Europe, Hispania excluded, brought an end to the tribal hierarchical nature of West Germanic societies. Many such as the Burgundians, Lombards and Ostrogoths have left no linguistic or cultural trace of their existence. They assimilated into the conquered people they came to rule, only their DNA legacy remains in certain regions. Even in European regions where the society is Germanic, the DNA of the conquered people still lives on hence why there is genetic diversity in German/Germanic Europe.

 

[Apollo]

@convincation @anonimo @SOMALI GENERAL

I looked at anthrogenica for Northwest Euro PCA plots and found this:

Note: Celts and Germanics are kind of closely related, so it is hard to distinguish them.

Also, Davidski's project didn't distinguish North from South Germans like he did with the Dutch, yet notice the relatively big autosomal plotting between the North and South Dutch, and the Flemish Dutch who seem majority Gallic in origin. I think a similar pattern exists between the Saxon (North) vs Alemannic (Swiss) Germans. I think those Italian samples plotting with South Germans are Germanic Italians or something.