are you black

[Gibiin-Udug]

No I'm not black, I am from Africa, East Africa, Horn of Africa, Somalia.

 

[Mohamud]

I think you appear offended that I don't care about what ajnabis think, while you seem beholden to it. I think this has more to do with your traumatic experience in America, a place with a finite view on race and lingering legacy of mistreatment that pervades American collective consciousness, today. In the past, even South Asians were confused for madows, and lynched. To be frank, I don't care for other ethnics beyond Somalis. If you are into that good for you. We just come from different paradigms ma garatay I have never been called that in my life and I've lived in an ethnic focused-society. I have not been cleaved with madows like you are or unfairly mistreated by store keepers or police. I also notice that most Somalis are opportunistically black, only as it relates to discrimination, while they hold highly prejudicial views of madows behind closed doors. I find that hypocritical. So I choose not to self-identify as such, it's disingenuous. Nigerians are among the highest educated group in the US, but they only constitute a small segment of the population of people with African descent. However, they are a mere drop in the sea of America. In the US people don't consider the idyllic picture of high achieving continental Africans with intact cultures and families, rather the dominate image is of broken New World madows with disintegrated families, high levels of promiscuity and staggering rates of underachievement.

I don't recall once perpetuating my ideals or beliefs onto you or other people. In fact, I believe I made it very clear that if your experiences don't correlate with racial categorizing that's perfectly fine. And it seems you're the one that's offended by the mere thought of an association between blacks and Somalis of any kind considering everyone was giving relatively small anecdotal explanations for why they hold their views, and you were the one that came in guns-a-blazing trying to dissuade any such notions. Even going as far as to claim that holding that view in any way was against our "best interest". And you still haven't even attempted to argue the meat of my argument which was how could race be such a myopic and arbitrary yet somehow be incompatible with ethnic identity.

And I'm glad you at least acknowledge that some people who could easily identify as black or AA do have incredibly high levels of achievements and genuinely thought-provoking mindsets.

Now as for the bolded parts, I think we're nearing the crux of your mindset. You are racist towards AA's and what is more pitiable is that you think we as a people are in any way, shape or form better than them. A dystopic and displaced group of individuals who have arguably the same levels of underachievement under the eyes of cadaan people who would gladly view you as equally disenfranchised and lost. Don't you find slightly ironic and a little hypocritical to stigmatize a whole group of individuals? I mean how much better are we really? I don't recall our levels of achievement being on a radical tangent to theirs. Do you see why certain individuals would view this as somewhat delusional.
Your entire mindset seems to be entirely reliant on our supremacy by and large, and I'm sorry, you have to fucking prove that shit. Because to madoows the idea that a country can still run without proper amalgamation and have a outdated concept such as clans would honestly seem like something to goff at. And to top it off having people who even in the diaspora think they're underachieving is probably where they'd become hysterical. I want my people to stand head and shoulders above the rest, but blatant discrimination like that? Please.

And I have personally not experienced any discrimination. The black label isn't some intense concept that utterly destroys my ethnic identity of being Somali so please stop projecting any sort of psyche fracture onto me. No trauma of any kind here, sxb. It's just a slotting system that best fits me without having to get into any further nuances of racial qualifications or hierarchies. It is merely what it is. If I still fiercely identify with my Somali heritage, why would sharing a nomenclature with other Africans be destructive? And I ask that without any hint of condescension. I really want a complete understanding of that.

I feel you're not really giving my outlook a fair shake. I am fully, and adamantly prepared to comprehend your perspective so please at least take a small look into how the evolution of race could affect individuals that do not live in ethnic-dominant societies where there is actually a sizeable African population like my own city. Come on, fam. Just honestly approach where I'm coming from. No need to postulate any traumatic experiences.

Also keep in mind, I'm Canadian. Most blacks here immigrated directly from their home country. And the only real similarities would be the vast majority of them were colonized.

Also the study you linked is incredibly lengthy so please give me some modicum of time to fully get into the nitty gritty of it.

 

[Freebandz]

No I'm not black, I am from Africa, East Africa, Horn of Africa, Somalia.

What about putland

 

[Moravia]

Ofcourse i am.

 

[Mohamud]

What about putland

MJ niggas pls stand up

 

[Gibiin-Udug]

What about putland

Puntland is in Somalia dumb ass.

 

[Raamsade]

Yes, I am, like all Somalis, an African/Black.

You peeps need to unshackle yourselves from eurocentric conceptions of race. According to Eurocentrics there are only 3 races with Whites in the middle and Blacks and Asians as perversions of the pure White race. All other races are compared to the perfect White race. The eurocentrics posit that true Africans/Blacks have certain features those who don't must have alien blood. Thus, a Black person with soft hair and narrow nose "must" have non-Black blood. Of course, this is hogwash.

There is more than one way to be Black. There is more than one way to be White. There is more than one way to Asian.

By genetics and language Somalis are decidedly African/Black.

 

[paragon]

I don't recall once perpetuating my ideals or beliefs onto you or other people. In fact, I believe I made it very clear that if your experiences don't correlate with racial categorizing that's perfectly fine. And it seems you're the one that's offended by the mere thought of an association between blacks and Somalis of any kind considering everyone was giving relatively small anecdotal explanations for why they hold their views, and you were the one that came in guns-a-blazing trying to dissuade any such notions. Even going as far as to claim that holding that view in any way was against our "best interest". And you still haven't even attempted to argue the meat of my argument which was how could race be such a myopic and arbitrary yet somehow be incompatible with ethnic identity.

And I'm glad you at least acknowledge that some people who could easily identify as black or AA do have incredibly high levels of achievements and genuinely thought-provoking mindsets.

Now as for the bolded parts, I think we're nearing the crux of your mindset. You are racist towards AA's and what is more pitiable is that you think we as a people are in any way, shape or form better than them. A dystopic and displaced group of individuals who have arguably the same levels of underachievement under the eyes of cadaan people who would gladly view you as equally disenfranchised and lost. Don't you find slightly ironic and a little hypocritical to stigmatize a whole group of individuals? I mean how much better are we really? I don't recall our levels of achievement being on a radical tangent to theirs. Do you see why certain individuals would view this as somewhat delusional.
Your entire mindset seems to be entirely reliant on our supremacy by and large, and I'm sorry, you have to fucking prove that shit. Because to madoows the idea that a country can still run without proper amalgamation and have a outdated concept such as clans would honestly seem like something to goff at. And to top it off having people who even in the diaspora think they're underachieving is probably where they'd become hysterical. I want my people to stand head and shoulders above the rest, but blatant discrimination like that? Please.

And I have personally not experienced any discrimination. The black label isn't some intense concept that utterly destroys my ethnic identity of being Somali so please stop projecting any sort of psyche fracture onto me. No trauma of any kind here, sxb. It's just a slotting system that best fits me without having to get into any further nuances of racial qualifications or hierarchies. It is merely what it is. If I still fiercely identify with my Somali heritage, why would sharing a nomenclature with other Africans be destructive? And I ask that without any hint of condescension. I really want a complete understanding of that.

I feel you're not really giving my outlook a fair shake. I am fully, and adamantly prepared to comprehend your perspective so please at least take a small look into how the evolution of race could affect individuals that do not live in ethnic-dominant societies where there is actually a sizeable African population like my own city. Come on, fam. Just honestly approach where I'm coming from. No need to postulate any traumatic experiences.

Also keep in mind, I'm Canadian. Most blacks here immigrated directly from their home country. And the only real similarities would be the vast majority of them were colonized.

Also the study you linked is incredibly lengthy so please give me some modicum of time to fully get into the nitty gritty of it.

I think I stated explicitly that I have a homeland to go back too. It's not in Somalia proper, caadi iska dhiig. I don't follow the typical narrative of being the child of Refugees. I don't have a fractured mentality. I'm just providing you with some incite on what many of us here think. And I see you understand the hierarchy of self-identity being Somali first. You see identity as nuanced and multi-layered, I get that. By the way, all I said is I don't consider myself black and that for me self-identity is Somali point blank. I just highlighted that Horners distantly related to West and Central Africans (~40 kya). And I made mention of Africa being a place with groups of people that have competed for land. Also, what's wrong with wanting Somalis to not be wiped out through admixture. Kenya and Ethiopia are "eyeing it like hawks". I consider black a social construct, not a biological reality or fact. In my world there are only genetic clusters. I don't see a considerable difference between Islanders or AAs, and Somalis that seek to imitate them are no different in my eyes. Academic underachievement has more to do with poor self-control mechanisms than an actual intellectual deficit, the onus of responsibility is partially on the individual. I have also noticed that Somalis with educated parents, or those that are stricter generally fair better. I believe in taking responsibility. I don't consider 'black' value neutral but pejorative. I favour African since its place-centered rather than abstract. Now you know. Lastly, my hubris would not allow me to subordinate myself to what ajnabis think.

 

[Mohamud]

While I find your general racism for AA's in America to be a little off-putting, I have to say we're generally in agreement with everything else. But from what I can gather African is the secondary sub-categorization you'd rather be associated with as Black differs far too greatly country-to-country to matter to your circumstances and because of it's less than scrupulous relevancy within mainstream America, the terminology as it exists for America isn't endearing to Somalis nor their circumstances. Am I comprehending that correctly?

Because if that is the argument, than Canada and other countries who do not have the debilitating history of slavery (nor the belligerent relationship with Caucasians) should be viewed differently. At least in a contemporary setting. Because many of their black people are immigrants from formerly colonized nations rather than century removed Africans. Our categorizing of African Canadian is free from their stigma by and large and shouldn't be linked as far as I'm concerned.

I just highlighted that Horners distantly related to West and Central Africans (~40 kya)

Yeah and most of the autosmal findings (though relatively incomplete and generally subject to change) support most of the migration patterns you postulated.

Academic underachievement has more to do with poor self-control mechanisms than an actual intellectual deficit, the onus of responsibility is partially on the individual. I have also noticed that Somalis with educated parents, or those that are stricter generally fair better. I believe in taking responsibility.

The same can largely be said for AA's, though. Still not entirely fair to look down on them.

But at the end of the day we seem to be on the same page. Somali ---> Country you're living in as far as Nationality ---> Sub-categorization of any kind. With a mentality like that, trust me. We can't fail.

 

[paragon]

While I find your general racism for AA's in America to be a little off-putting, I have to say we're generally in agreement with everything else. But from what I can gather African is the secondary sub-categorization you'd rather be associated with as Black differs far too greatly country-to-country to matter to your circumstances and because of it's less than scrupulous relevancy within mainstream America, the terminology as it exists for America isn't endearing to Somalis nor their circumstances. Am I comprehending that correctly?

Because if that is the argument, than Canada and other countries who do not have the debilitating history of slavery (nor the belligerent relationship with Caucasians) should be viewed differently. At least in a contemporary setting. Because many of their black people are immigrants from formerly colonized nations rather than century removed Africans. Our categorizing of African Canadian is free from their stigma by and large and shouldn't be linked as far as I'm concerned.



Yeah and most of the autosmal findings (though relatively incomplete and generally subject to change) support most of the migration patterns you postulated.



The same can largely be said for AA's, though. Still not entirely fair to look down on them.

But at the end of the day we seem to be on the same page. Somali ---> Country you're living in as far as Nationality ---> Sub-categorization of any kind. With a mentality like that, trust me. We can't fail.

I can agree to that. I don't hate Islanders and AAs, I can't respect men that degrade their women. Unfortunately, that's how I've seen them portrayed in the mainstream media and on the inter-web. I do feel sorry for AAs, since harmful policies were pilot tested on them which disintegrated their families.There was a time when they were more respectable than other groups. However, it is no longer the 50s. Now they must contend with an array of social problems. Somethings are certainly within their control i.e. how they spend their money (they should practice group economics) and they also have control over what they do with their bodies. There are no excuses for having: 1) The highest incidence of STDs . 2) The highest rate of illegitimacy (this ensures poor life outcomes from the jump but its also an indicator of lower SES and permissive attitudes within their sub-culture), 3) A disproportionate number of abortions compared to other communities.

 

[isme]

give respect and you will get it in return regardless of how you identify.

I can agree to that. I don't hate Islanders and AAs, I can't respect men that degrade their women. Unfortunately, that's how I've seen them portrayed in the mainstream media and on the inter-web. I do feel sorry for AAs, since harmful policies were pilot tested on them which disintegrated their families.There was a time when they were more respectable than other groups. However, it is no longer the 50s. Now they must contend with an array of social problems. Somethings are certainly within their control i.e. how they spend their money (they should practice group economics) and they also have control over what they do with their bodies. There are no excuses for having: 1) The highest incidence of STDs . 2) The highest rate of illegitimacy (this ensures poor life outcomes from the jump but its also an indicator of lower SES and permissive attitudes within their sub-culture), 3) A disproportionate number of abortions compared to other communities.

Listen to this phuckin refugee! Nigga please! Are you blind to your own people's destitute. Who the phuck needs your sympathy? Save it for the next somali nigga who drowns on their way to freedom or the next somali whose father sends her off to saudi arabia to serve it up in some arab kitchen. Dis nigga...... bout feeling sorry for others who are doing wayyy better than you and your people. GTFOH Nigga!

 

[Zenyatta]

give respect and you will get it in return regardless of how you identify.


Listen to this phuckin refugee! Nigga please! Are you blind to your own people's destitute. Who the phuck needs your sympathy? Save it for the next somali nigga who drowns on their way to freedom or the next somali whose father sends her off to saudi arabia to serve it up in some arab kitchen. Dis nigga...... bout feeling sorry for others who are doing wayyy better than you and your people. GTFOH Nigga!

Are you Somali?

 

[isme]

Are you Somali?

Hell No! Do i sound like some arab? I'm a black caribbean man. Now take your best shot!

 

[TelephoneMan]

Black, but different.
All "race groups" come in different shapes.

 

[paragon]

give respect and you will get it in return regardless of how you identify.


Listen to this phuckin refugee! Nigga please! Are you blind to your own people's destitute. Who the phuck needs your sympathy? Save it for the next somali nigga who drowns on their way to freedom or the next somali whose father sends her off to saudi arabia to serve it up in some arab kitchen. Dis nigga...... bout feeling sorry for others who are doing wayyy better than you and your people. GTFOH Nigga!

Let me catch you up to speed, since you came late to the convo. If you do a read through you'll see what I said about Somali people being my top priority and how Somali is my sole identifier. Don't calcaal or jump to conclusions. The brother asked me why I had a negative appraisal of madows and I gave my 2 cents. I have a culture that I'm attached to, I speak my language and know my history. Others don't have that same luxury. I did not arrive in Europe as a refugee. My parents came as economic migrants (from another country) ma garatay. I'm not from Somalia proper, yet I'm a proud Somali. I obviously feel the plight of Somalis. BTW it's HSM's fault for bartering with Saudi for domestic workers, don't blame poor Somali parents back home with meager prospects. That's what happens when you have an American selected stooge in power that only cares about lining his pocket, but is so incompetent he can barely control the capital. If Somalia really wants unity and peace why don't they convict their war criminals, instead of letting them loose. If you have innocent blood on your hands you should be locked up. How do you think Rwanda healed from it's Genocide?

 

[angrycat]

Everytime i come on here lately theres like 15 of the same thread with slight variation

 

[paragon]

Hell No! Do i sound like some arab? I'm a black caribbean man. Now take your best shot!

Somalis aren't Arab. Perhaps you're too dimwitted to know anything about linguistics or genetics. It's either that or you're trolling. What is your ilk doing here?

 

[Zenyatta]

Hell No! Do i sound like some arab? I'm a black caribbean man. Now take your best shot!

Why are you so obsessed with us?

 

[darkwhite]

I'm a Caucasian person of color aka dark white.