Are there a lot of childless Somali men that married single moms?

[Rayaale]

I mean some of the younger ones might marry out because of love. Overall though we have some chicks that can't find a financial stable Somali partner. Our dating market it's pretty messed up right now.

I wonder how ghi

This is what I mean when I say UK and some Western Somali men have been influenced by Timo jelec Western men. The fact that historically we never looked down on Somali single mothers is source of embarrassment to them. Other forms of misogyny that Somali women face isn’t enough, they also want to add the stigma of looking down on women whose marriages didn’t work.

parents/grandparents managed to get married while they were financially poor and were living in harsher environments.

This is what I mean when I say UK and some Western Somali men have been influenced by Timo jelec Western men. The fact that historically we never looked down on Somali single mothers is source of embarrassment to them. Other forms of misogyny that Somali women face isn’t enough, they also want to add the stigma of looking down on women whose marriages didn’t work.

It's never been part of our dhaqan to look down on divorced or widowed people whether male or female. I guess that was what she was alluding to. Shit happens. Our ancestors didn't care. I think this is part of the issue with living around certain muslim populations, you absorb their culture. Though it's weird how we absorb their culture but they never seem to absorb ours.

This is what I don’t understand,we bend backwards to them but they look down on us if only this self hating Somalis knew how our forefathers were proud Somalis and only cared about Somalinimo

 

[Kisame]

Context is key,

This came about because of that Arab man trying to secretly have a temporary marriage with a single mother because he looks down on single mothers. Asian and Arabs were talking about the hardships of single mothers in their community. She added to the conversation saying that Somali women don’t have that issue.

The only men who will have issues with her comments are misogynistic men who wish to be like Arab and Asian men. I’m sure they’re offended that our ancestors didn’t create a culture in which they can abuse us, mistreat and if we dare leave treat us like leapers not worthy of having another marriage.

Clearly the men here offended by her comment which whilst exaggeration does have truth to it. Culturally we don’t look down on single mothers and if that’s ‘sus to you, you then look within and see why. Clearly deep down you look down on single mothers.

"if that’s ‘sus to you, you then look within and see why. Clearly deep down you look down on single mothers."

Yeah pretty much. Now I'm not going to hop on random platforms just to dunk on single moms for no reason. I don't hate them.

I'm pretty westernized so Arabs and Asian people didn't influence my views on single moms. I just consider it a desperate move for a guy with no kids to marry one.

I also never liked this reputation we had. If we have a bunch of Somali men in the West that married single moms that means they're dating prospects were already horrible. If single moms are the best prospects in your current dating pool than you fucked up somewhere in the past.

 

[Kisame]

Im not bothered by childfree divorcees though. If your single in your late 20s and 30s you will run into a decent amount of divorcees while dating.

 

[Journey.]

This is what I mean when I say UK and some Western Somali men have been influenced by Timo jelec Western men. The fact that historically we never looked down on Somali single mothers is source of embarrassment to them. Other forms of misogyny that Somali women face isn’t enough, they also want to add the stigma of looking down on women whose marriages didn’t work.

The Arabs during the time of the Prophet ﷺ were also like this. No issues with marrying divorcees/widows, in fact there would be a queue of suitors once her waiting period ended. Remember the sahabiyah who got a proposal from 4 different men after her divorce and she went to the Prophet ﷺ for advice on who to marry? And the Prophet ﷺ adviced her to marry Usamah bin Zayd, a young man who never married before.

Stigmatising divorcee women is sinister and rooted in misogyny and controlling women. This is how you pressure women to remain in broken/abusive marriages, because sometimes a life as a divorcee social pariah is worse than the toxic marriage you're in.

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[Keep it a boqol]

Digital Sisterhood, it’s the same fucking podcast when of those girls say that she was commiting zina with a high school classmate, and that they were ultimately caught in the bathroom when she was performing head on him, and then she went to say that it was a « Test from Allah »

if she repented from the act then it’s permissible to say it’s the qadr of allah espcially if it was able to bring her closer to allah. What matters is how a person ends up, not the shortcomings that he may commit in the beginning.

If she were to make qadr and excuse to keep sinning that is not permissible

 

[Abu Hesi]

if she repented from the act then it’s permissible to say it’s the qadr of allah espcially if it was able to bring her closer to allah. What matters is how a person ends up, not the shortcomings that he may commit in the beginning.

If she were to make qadr and excuse to keep sinning that is not permissible

her sins should be private tho, if she actually mentioned it on podcast that's wild and she has no xayaa or manners.

 

[Burqad]

This is what I mean when I say UK and some Western Somali men have been influenced by Timo jelec Western men. The fact that historically we never looked down on Somali single mothers is source of embarrassment to them. Other forms of misogyny that Somali women face isn’t enough, they also want to add the stigma of looking down on women whose marriages didn’t work.

We need to divide single parents, there’s a different between someone with a child from a divorce or a dead parent and someone with a child from zina. The English word single parent doesn’t grasp the nuance.

 

[SomaliSteel]

We don't stigmatize single mothers or divorced women because they were in halal relationships and are of good character.

In the west single mothers are often never married, sexually promiscuous women, and more unstable. Somali's and Muslims in the west encounter these as their image of a single mother, so that is why they feel that way.

Also in Indian/Pakistan culture, once a woman is divorced it is very hard for her to get married. South Asian Muslims are a high population and often dominate Islamic discussions in the English speaking internet.

 

[johnsepei5]

Who in their right mind would want to raise some other dudes kids

extra mouths to feed mouths that aren’t even yours,it’s human nature

 

[Kisame]

@johnsepei5 @SomaliSteel @Burqad @Angelina @Journey. @haye haye

I don't like how Asian and Arab influence is being brought up into this conversations. Both of those communities tend to have way more educated and financially stable men compared to our community.

You guys keep bringing up how our ancestors married single mom's pretty often but if you look at their situation our people were very nomadic. I think most of these men back in the day were just marrying whoever was the most attractive they could find.

Also these men didn't really take fatherhood seriously since most of them had the "it takes a village to raise a child" mindset.

Within the past 20-30 years Somali men have had access to upward mobility here in the West. Back home that really isn't the case for a lot of somali men. Even before the civil war we had a bunch of Somali men stuck living in rural areas with no access education.
In the west as long as you don't have a bad criminal record you can easily become financially stable as long as you're motivated.

We now have a bunch of bachelors who are actually looking for prospects that aren't just attractive. Guys now have a checklist of things they're looking for in a partner. So now we have guys that are completely avoiding single moms and divorcees when this wasn't an option before.

 

[Angelina]

@johnsepei5 @SomaliSteel @Burqad @Angelina @Journey. @haye haye

I don't like how Asian and Arab influence is being brought up into this conversations. Both of those communities tend to have way more educated and financially stable men compared to our community.

What does way more money have to do with anything? We’re talking about misogyny and traditional cultures. Pre-1970s we in fact had more money than them. I’m talking about the evil traditions of looking down on women which is before wealth and modernism.

You guys keep bringing up how our ancestors married single mom's pretty often but if you look at their situation our people were very nomadic. I think most of these men back in the day were just marrying whoever was the most attractive they could find.

False, even city men in the past who had government jobs didn’t mind like some of my ancestors but that’s beside the point, the fact is they didn’t have a culture of mocking

Also these men didn't really take fatherhood seriously since most of them had the "it takes a village to raise a child" mindset.

In correct. Arab and Asian men had the same mentality too but they still looked down on single mothers. So that can’t be a reason.

Also, Somali men in the past valued kids probably more in the past as they would try to get custody upon divorce. So that’s not a real reason.

Also, they saw having more kids in the clan who will be later on loyal to them as a strength.

It was due to different cultural mindset. You’re arguing from a place of looking down on single women and acting like these men couldn’t get women that never married when during that time period you got 35 yr olds marrying never married 16 yr olds.

Within the past 20-30 years Somali men have had access to upward mobility here in the West. Back home that really isn't the case for a lot of somali men. Even before the civil war we had a bunch of Somali men stuck living in rural areas with no access education.
In the west as long as you don't have a bad criminal record you can easily become financially stable as long as you're motivated.

Again not a real excuse. The culture I’m talking about was prevelent in the city. My family folk with many of the men also working in companies and the government. Blaming it poverty shows how misogynistic you are since you can’t understand why anyone would want a single mother.

You need to understand how culture works.

We now have a bunch of bachelors who are actually looking for prospects that aren't just attractive. Guys now have a checklist of things they're looking for in a partner. So now we have guys that are completely avoiding single moms and divorcees when this wasn't an option before.

Firstly, you’re wrong, Somali men have always had an option to avoid them. Pre-1970s, Arab and Asian men were very poor in fact the Khaleej was poorer the Somalis and even then they would look down on divorced women. Why? Because of culture. Money has nothing to do with it since we see rich men with single mothers all the time. One of the richest Somali men married a 35 yr old single mother in what was seen as the most expensive wedding amongst Somalis. Some men simply don’t care.


Also, Kisame comprehension is key,

Having a preference to not marry single mothers is completely fine. I too before I married avoided single fathers, but do you see us women mock previously married men with kids?

This isn’t about you not wanting them, it’s about men belittling them and belittling the men who don’t mind as ‘simps’

Comprehension is key here and this is why I think misogyny is rampant. Men can’t seem to understand to NOT insult women they don’t like, not to devalue women.

If you as a man get a divorce, why you have the right to dignity? Why do you have the right to not be looked down upon but women don’t?! What so now that men have more options according to you, they can now take on toxic misogynistic talking points? But you’re forgetting is that women too now have more options and we don’t verbally abuse the single fathers in our community. Also, men in the past actually had more options. Women married younger, society was incredibly patriarchal, hence men had better pick when it comes to options since women had no choice but to marry which why you’d get bigger age gaps. In the past a 40 yr old man was able to gets beautiful never married women as a wife as long as he had the ability to provide. Men can’t do that as much now.

Your interest in these women is not my business, you can say you don’t want them, but don’t you dare belittle them or act like they’re some sort of disease that need to be avoided.

That was my point all along and the fact that you can’t see this worrying.

 

[Angelina]

We need to divide single parents, there’s a different between someone with a child from a divorce or a dead parent and someone with a child from zina. The English word single parent doesn’t grasp the nuance.

Burqad we’re Muslim. I’m clearly talking about single motherhood in the context of the Muslim community. It’s obvious from the actual tweet and from the community I’m talking about. Unless you think we Somalis and Arabs and Asians have high Zina rates, I don’t understand why you feel the need to say this. I’m obviously talking about divorced Muslim women.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Digital Sisterhood, it’s the same fucking podcast when of those girls say that she was commiting zina with a high school classmate, and that they were ultimately caught in the bathroom when she was performing head on him, and then she went to say that it was a « Test from Allah »

I can’t lie that one was crazy. Way she tried to spin it I found terrifying, imagine she ends up slick talking some miskeen guy in the future and he falls for her, not knowing anything about her past

 

[Angelina]

"if that’s ‘sus to you, you then look within and see why. Clearly deep down you look down on single mothers."

Yeah pretty much. Now I'm not going to hop on random platforms just to dunk on single moms for no reason. I don't hate them.

I'm pretty westernized so Arabs and Asian people didn't influence my views on single moms. I just consider it a desperate move for a guy with no kids to marry one.

I also never liked this reputation we had. If we have a bunch of Somali men in the West that married single moms that means they're dating prospects were already horrible. If single moms are the best prospects in your current dating pool than you fucked up somewhere in the past.

Yep I knew it. .

We both know that you wouldn’t like it if divorced men with kids were treated like the plague. Is it desperate when divorced men with kids are able to marry single never married women?

Men not having an issue with a divorced woman with kids doesn’t mean they have limited options. Any man can get a single woman the same way when women marry men who had kids aren’t also desperate. Have you heard of love? Having a lot in common ect? Why do we have rich men who have more options like you, like Ben affleck and like that guy who owns Amazon ect who are worth a shit tonne of money with single mothers?

Why does the idea that our culture is egalitarian when it comes to men and women being able to move on and find love again an issue? Do you think Single mothers need to live a life of being condemned for the rest of their lives?

You can have your preferences and not want one but for you to have issues with women moving on and finding love again is sickening and it’s funny it’s always aimed at women. This sort of mentality is a way in which women end up in abusive marriages. You’ll look down on a woman being divorced hence what happens is that cultures in the men like you think like you create societies in which women can’t leave bad and abusive marriages since YOU think these women’s value goes down.

 

[Angelina]

i remeber the podcast it was warning ppl and girls about the dangers of getting into haram relationships. the dude coerced her after it was a one time thing and ruined her reputation after it ended. her identity and name was hidden and wasn’t meant to glamorize her lifestyle

Boqol, women aren’t allowed to make mistakes and be forgiven. Teenage girls aren’t allowed to be vulnerable and make stupid decisions because if they do they’re disgusting deviants who can’t be forgiven.

Isn’t it funny how many videos and podcasts we’ve had in which Dawah men and other Muslim men talk about their pasts as road men selling drugs thus poisoning their community and we put it down to poverty and youth?

You have men talk about willingly going to the club as ADULTS when they weren’t practicing and talk about the ‘evils’ of that lifestyle to young Muslim men as a ‘warning’ yet no one uses that against them. In fact we praise them in the comment saying ‘oh brother! MashaAllah you’ve changed, you’re an example of the youth and you should tell the evils of that lifestyle! But when a girl that was a kid and near enough groomed talks about her experiences all of a sudden talking about the ‘past is haram’ when young girls need to hear how men can take advantage of them.

What’s even more insane is how many men in our communities are liars. They’ll hear a podcast of a clearly distressed woman talking about a situation she regretted that was clearly about someone taking advantage of her and in which the girl also regrets her decision and takes accountability that her part in it was also wrong and haram, but they’ll twist the whole thing and act like they we’re normalizing Zina. Hatred of women is a curse indeed. They’ll go as far as being liars and slanderers.

 

[Angelina]

The Arabs during the time of the Prophet ﷺ were also like this. No issues with marrying divorcees/widows, in fact there would be a queue of suitors once her waiting period ended. Remember the sahabiyah who got a proposal from 4 different men after her divorce and she went to the Prophet ﷺ for advice on who to marry? And the Prophet ﷺ adviced her to marry Usamah bin Zayd, a young man who never married before.

Stigmatising divorcee women is sinister and rooted in misogyny and controlling women. This is how you pressure women to remain in broken/abusive marriages, because sometimes a life as a divorcee social pariah is worse than the toxic marriage you're in.

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That’s why if find people like @Kisame disturbing. Doesn’t even understand the context of how messed up Eastern culture is towards divorced women with kids are. Basically our value as a women hinges upon being with a husband even if he’s abusive, evil and the list continues.

Also, his idea of men in the past not being able to get single attractive women easier compared to now isn’t historically accurate. In the past it was in fact easier. Girls married younger, had limited options and marriage was also about survival hence it was common to see a 35 yr old man with a never married 16 yr old. Unattractive and older men could even get a young never married women. Hence to suggest they married these women due to desperation is silly. They simply didn’t care. It just wasn’t one of those things people worried about. Also, I think the whole taking the kids to grandparents or ex fathers sometimes custody could be one of the reasons why many men were lax tbh. But Asian and Arabs also have a culture in the past of taking the kids which was even worse. So that can’t even be an explanation for Somalis. Some groups simply hate women more.

Also, Kisame, Western men don’t look down on divorced single mothers. It’s redpillers that do and unfortunately, the dislike of single mothers in the West is also clouded by racial stereotypes. Also, these women in the West who are disliked for being single mothers tend to be the ones who never married and had a kid with a man they didn’t know that well.

Previous married cadaan single mothers have ok prospects especially if she’s richer and beautiful. People like Meghan Fox, JLo and the list continues we’re still able to bag rich men.

 

[Kisame]

Yep I knew it. Hence you’re a misogynist.

We both know that you wouldn’t like it if divorced men with kids were treated like the plague. Is it desperate when divorced men with kids are able to marry single never married women?

Men not having an issue with a divorced woman with kids doesn’t mean they have limited options. Any man can get a single woman the same way when women marry men who had kids aren’t also desperate. Have you heard of love? Having a lot in common ect? Why do we have rich men who have more options like you, like Ben affleck and like that guy who owns Amazon ect who are worth a shit tonne of money with single mothers?

Why does the idea that our culture is egalitarian when it comes to men and women being able to move on and find love again an issue? Do you think Single mothers need to live a life of being condemned for the rest of their lives?

Deep down you’re a twisted misogynist. You can have your preferences and not want one but for you to have issues with women moving on and finding love again is sickening and it’s funny it’s always aimed at women. This sort of mentality is a way in which women end up in abusive marriages. You’ll look down on a woman being divorced hence what happens is that cultures in the men like you think like you create societies in which women can’t leave bad and abusive marriages since YOU think these women’s value goes down. Thats not Western, it’s definitely an Asian thinking.

"We both know that you wouldn’t like it if divorced men with kids were treated like the plague"

I thought they were treated like the plague. I've seen a bunch of single women complain about the amount of single fathers they've encountered while dating. A lot of these men are deadbeats too. Personally I think these men are given a bit more leeway just simply because of the fact a lot of them never date a women on their level. These guys are willing to date woman that depend on them financially, so these women usually won't complaining about them having kids.

"Men not having an issue with a divorced woman with kids doesn’t mean they have limited options. "

It looks like it though. Like most financially stable childless men won't be looking too settle down with a single mom. I'm not trying to insult these women trust me I have no problem with them. I just feel like most childless men and women prefer to be with each other.

Like I said before I don't hop on platforms just to attack them. I actually respect step parents that are actually involved in the lives of these kids.

"Why does the idea that our culture is egalitarian when it comes to men and women being able to move on and find love again an issue? Do you think Single mothers need to live a life of being condemned for the rest of their lives?"

I don't think they should be condemned. Like I don't hate on them. They should be able to find love I just feel like they should be doing that with other single parents.

"Deep down you’re a twisted misogynist. You can have your preferences and not want one but for you to have issues with women moving on and finding love again is sickening and it’s funny it’s always aimed at women. This sort of mentality is a way in which women end up in abusive marriages. "


Fucking hell listen I'm not bothered with these woman finding love again. I actually encourage it since life can get lonely. I just personally believe most single parents should be with each other.

 

[GeeljireGenius]

Who in their right mind would want to raise some other dudes kids

extra mouths to feed mouths that aren’t even yours,it’s hum an nature

Not for somalis, very easy for divorced xalimo with kids to get married.

 

[Angelina]

"We both know that you wouldn’t like it if divorced men with kids were treated like the plague"

I thought they were treated like the plague. I've seen a bunch of single women complain about the amount of single fathers they've encountered while dating. A lot of these men are deadbeats too. Personally I think these men are given a bit more leeway just simply because of the fact a lot of them never date a women on their level. These guys are willing to date woman that depend on them financially, so these women usually won't complaining about them having kids.

They’re usually the deadbeat ones. I doubt most women would look down on a handsome and professional single father who unfortunately didn’t have a good marriage looking for love the second time around.

The thing is, many of us women might not go for them but we don’t believe that these men are devalued or that other women that go for them are ‘desperate’. And if we do we keep it on the low instead of going on about on social media and trying to create a culture of ostracizing them like those weirdo redpil Western Somali Faraxs.

"Men not having an issue with a divorced woman with kids doesn’t mean they have limited options. "

It looks like it though. Like most financially stable childless men won't be looking too settle down with a single mom. I'm not trying to insult these women trust me I have no problem with them. I just feel like most childless men and women prefer to be with each other.

I agree, most childless people gravitate towards each other and I too wouldn’t have gone for a man with a kid unless I was super in love. But that’s what you’re forgetting people forge connections and fall in love.

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Like I said before I don't hop on platforms just to attack them. I actually respect step parents that are actually involved in the lives of these kids.

Okay nice. But you need to understand that cultures that look down on single mothers operate via attacking them and devaluing them. Because let’s be real, humans fall in love and don’t always follow through with their requirements. If there is no stigma on divorced women, you’d find a lot more men willing to marry them. In misogynistic cultures the reason why these women are looked down upon is to try and make these women stay in abusive relationships by deterring would be future husband. It’s simply another mate guarding tactic but an extreme one.

"Why does the idea that our culture is egalitarian when it comes to men and women being able to move on and find love again an issue? Do you think Single mothers need to live a life of being condemned for the rest of their lives?"

I don't think they should be condemned. Like I don't hate on them. They should be able to find love I just feel like they should be doing that with other single parents.

That’s the crux of my issue. Whilst ideally another single parent would be better, you can’t stop people from falling in love or believing that this specific person is good for them. Also, why is it that men who have kids try to go for never married women all the time and no one bats an eyelid.

The dislike of single mothers is insidious since single fathers are also encouraged to go for a never married woman. Many men believe single mothers are used goods since women are objects. Those men can have 5 kids and two broken down relationships and they’ll still try and get with a woman who has no kids. Women are simply products. It’s a case of a used one and a never used one. We’re not people and that is why I find the topic infuriating even though I’m not a single mother ect. It boils down to the objectification of the female.

"Deep down you’re a twisted misogynist. You can have your preferences and not want one but for you to have issues with women moving on and finding love again is sickening and it’s funny it’s always aimed at women. This sort of mentality is a way in which women end up in abusive marriages. "


Fucking hell listen I'm not bothered with these woman finding love again. I actually encourage it since life can get lonely. I just personally believe most single parents should be with each other.

Ah alright then. I think I got a little carried away with you lol. You’re probably not a misogynist. But you’re too concerned about Somali men’s image and ‘dating prospects’ as if getting a single woman is hard. You see Somali men who have two wives getting a never married miskeena as a third. Men married single mothers because they simply don’t see this women as second hand goods. That’s it really.

 

[Warzio7]

You’ve clearly not been back home.

Divorced women get married again and again. I know a girl of 30 who has married 3 times. Normal thing back home.

You’re conflating how Somalis now behave in the West to our culture back home. Back home they hardly stay single.

Yes that’s true. I think the population is just bigger back home so you see a whole variety of relationship situations. Men/women can marry multiple times with no problem just depends how picky they choose to be. I remember being back home and a young guy telling me he was talking to a girl who was divorced and had a baby already and he was thinking about marrying her. I was shocked lol. I think they’re generally less picky back home.