Are somalis better of today than they were in the Kacaan era?
- Thread starter Som
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Somalis everywhere are 1000% better off today, it’s not even an argument.
Most Somalis get fooled by images and videos of Muqdisho, Kacaan had nothing to do with that, if you look at videos of colonial Muqdishu you would notice it looked even better, there was less visible poverty in colonial footage.
The Kacaan focused all its efforts in one city, and neglected the rest. There was a recent study that proved that life is much better today than it was during the Kacaan.
As you can see, apart from school enrolment, all indicators are better today than the Kacaan. So you can jget st imagine how bad the Kacaan was if you were a Somali citizen from anywhere outside Muqdisho.
Most Somalis get fooled by images and videos of Muqdisho, Kacaan had nothing to do with that, if you look at videos of colonial Muqdishu you would notice it looked even better, there was less visible poverty in colonial footage.
The Kacaan focused all its efforts in one city, and neglected the rest. There was a recent study that proved that life is much better today than it was during the Kacaan.
As you can see, apart from school enrolment, all indicators are better today than the Kacaan. So you can jget st imagine how bad the Kacaan was if you were a Somali citizen from anywhere outside Muqdisho.
The kacaan was a failure in everything whether it was human rights, domestic policy or foreign policy. The dictator killed Sheikhs and scholars, Made fun of the Quran verses, pressured Islamic values and wanted to make Somalis more like western gaals.
This filthy dictator wanted to genocide whole entire clans and he wouldn’t hesitate in doing so. His policy on discriminating clans led to rebellions which led to the current instability we have. If he was smart, he could have treated all the clans equally which would give him support but he was too arrogant. Can’t believe there are people who support him.
Siyad Barre is considered a hero to them but in reality, he was a lying, deceptive, tyrant, -made, insecure rat who destroyed this country and was a fool in every aspect. He has no respect, honour or anything. He’s a disgrace.
This filthy dictator wanted to genocide whole entire clans and he wouldn’t hesitate in doing so. His policy on discriminating clans led to rebellions which led to the current instability we have. If he was smart, he could have treated all the clans equally which would give him support but he was too arrogant. Can’t believe there are people who support him.
Siyad Barre is considered a hero to them but in reality, he was a lying, deceptive, tyrant, -made, insecure rat who destroyed this country and was a fool in every aspect. He has no respect, honour or anything. He’s a disgrace.
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Ok, I hear your points and that's very interesting but we should consider a few things.
The Kacaan govt until the 80s was much more stable than the current dowladda federalka. School was free or affordable, university were recognized, our language was written during the kacaan era, we were actually considered a normal country while today Somalia means anarchy, chaos and terrorism.
The somali army was also a regional power, our country was stronger diplomatically, our embassies were fully operating in many countries in the world
We should also remember that the whole world improved in many areas between the late 80s and today.
Those indicators would have increased even if siad barre stayed in power for some more years and the reference period is between 1985-1990 which was the worst time of the kacaan era.
Some indicators such as radios and TVs don't make much sense since it's obvious that anywhere in the world TVs and radios are more common today than 30 years ago
The Kacaan govt until the 80s was much more stable than the current dowladda federalka. School was free or affordable, university were recognized, our language was written during the kacaan era, we were actually considered a normal country while today Somalia means anarchy, chaos and terrorism.
The somali army was also a regional power, our country was stronger diplomatically, our embassies were fully operating in many countries in the world
We should also remember that the whole world improved in many areas between the late 80s and today.
Those indicators would have increased even if siad barre stayed in power for some more years and the reference period is between 1985-1990 which was the worst time of the kacaan era.
Some indicators such as radios and TVs don't make much sense since it's obvious that anywhere in the world TVs and radios are more common today than 30 years ago
Let me say AUN for all people who were killed unjustly
We shouldn't be to extreme in our judgement.
Siad made many horrible mistakes but the people who came after him were worse.
If Siyaad was so bad why didn't USC hawiye rebels form a stable government? I understand getting rid of a dictator but all they did was overthrow the government and start persecuting all darood.
Let's look at this incredible fact.
Xassan Kulmiye Afrax who was hawiye and vice president of the kacaan government was even asked by USC to join them.
It doesn't make any sense. Why would the rebels allow former kacaan politicians to join them? The answer is very simple the whole rebellion was about qabil and the rebels were even more qabilist than Siad.
Siilanyo former minister in the kacaan govt was president of Somaliland, doesn't make sense.
Dahir Riyale Kahin 2nd president of somaliland was head of the Somali secret services who were involved in repression against SNM rebels. It doesn't make sense.
The rebels USC,SSDF, SNM etc chose former Kacaan personalities as their leaders.
Last but not least everything that happened after Siad left the country isn't Kacaan's fault.
Siad made many horrible mistakes but the people who came after him were worse.
If Siyaad was so bad why didn't USC hawiye rebels form a stable government? I understand getting rid of a dictator but all they did was overthrow the government and start persecuting all darood.
Let's look at this incredible fact.
Xassan Kulmiye Afrax who was hawiye and vice president of the kacaan government was even asked by USC to join them.
It doesn't make any sense. Why would the rebels allow former kacaan politicians to join them? The answer is very simple the whole rebellion was about qabil and the rebels were even more qabilist than Siad.
Siilanyo former minister in the kacaan govt was president of Somaliland, doesn't make sense.
Dahir Riyale Kahin 2nd president of somaliland was head of the Somali secret services who were involved in repression against SNM rebels. It doesn't make sense.
The rebels USC,SSDF, SNM etc chose former Kacaan personalities as their leaders.
Last but not least everything that happened after Siad left the country isn't Kacaan's fault.
Lool, go search up the conditions of obeying a ruler in Islam. I already talked about this in another thread and I don’t want to explain myself anymore. I’ll give you the articles so you could read it up.
Secondly, I’m not a qabiilist, don’t insult me like that. I personally don’t care which clan a ruler comes from. A Marehan, Madhiban, Isaaq or a Hawiye could rule me and I wouldn’t care about their qabiils. I consider all Somalis to be the same, qabiil is bullshit.
https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/9911
https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/128453
https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/128453
Yes and no. The disease of institutionalised tribalism took root in his rule. Yes Somalia was a power, yes it was considered “normal” yes we had the 2nd biggest army in Africa. That is all great. But his greatest mistake and the one which outweighs all the positives during his reign is the nepotism, the Massacre of somalilanders and anyone who opposes him. Basically without him, Somali would not have 4.5 and be cursed with tribalism that is ripping the country apart to this day. That being said, MSB is not the only one to blame for our sorry situation. The USC after capturing kismayo to galkacyo could not decide on a leadership which is nothing to with MSB
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Any Somali that supports that shaydan that ruled for 21 years deenta so bahtay. Furthermore, some Somalis were worse off between 1977-91. But, now dowlada Konfurta somaliyeed was worse off from 1991-2019 which is very unfortunate.
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Well, the institutionalized tribalism existed but its started after we lost the 77 war and SSDF and other rebels started attacking the govt. He didn't start this.
Qabil was always a part of somali culture, 4.5 would have existed even without Siyaad.
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Eddo is absolutely right! HG are not to be messed with, thank Allah I have a great Ayeeyo that’s HG.
I'll make my viewpoints easy for people to understand so that they can extrapolate the correct answer from the stark differences in the two eras.
Kacaan Era:
*Most factories built in Somalia
*Top Militaries in Africa that could protect its borders, skies and seas. With security in all parts of the country intact.
*Free education and long running literacy campaigns which educated large sections of people
*Bustling Informal economy and surging formal economy
*Construction of Ports and Roads/Highways/Bridges in Various areas
*Respect from around the world and leadership positions in Various groups i.e. Organization of African Union chairmanship, Arab League etc.,
*Various scholarship programs offered to students in top Western Universities around the world.
*Confidence from the citizenry and stable institutions.
*Somali shilling was closest in comparison to the USD in currency valuation during this period.
*Learning in the Science and math fields was beginning to flourish in top universities as well.
*Involvement in the peace process of different African countries that almost went to war, involvement in getting independence for African countries.
*The Somali Script being devised and implemented in schools. Which allowed for the exponential growth in books being written
*Somali cultural renaissance with the arts being important to the society in a progressive manner.
*Infrastructure programs
*People were able to live in peace and tend to their lives with pride and security due to stability
Etc.,
What came Post-Kacaan:
*Clan based attacks and human rights violations aimed primarily at civilians. Which consisted of large scale executions and rapes. Which caused never before seen famines to certain areas primarily Bay/Bakool
*Breakdown of Law and order which enabled clan militias to fight each other with weaponry stolen from the government that caused unimaginable destruction of infrastructure and loss of uncountable lives.
*The USC group in particular destroying much of the government data centers and their information holdings in the capital. The pillaging of civilian/business property and the killings of the owners in cold bold.
*Collapse of various infrastructure due to thievery and criminal behavior becoming the norm with no stability whatsoever.
*The US bringing AID due to the famine caused by the clan-based militias and then being attacked causing the Black Hawk Down fiasco, which followed UN Aid compounds being ransacked and robbed.
*Sustained criminal extortion rings and fights between different groups ensuing.
*The creation of various religious based insurgent groups and their brainwashing which has led to much instability in various areas and still poses a problem today.
*Piracy starting up and world powers sending ships to patrol our waters with frigates. Different groups dumping waste or over fishing with no consequences.
*Ethiopian invasion followed by AMISOM being brought in to mediate between people.
*All regions being beholden to the UN and regional countries taking advantage of weakness.
*Clan militias present in all areas with leaders which view themselves as Presidents (A recipe for disaster)
*Fragmentation of the country into different parts and lack of institutional capacity for all of them.
*People born after the kacaan knowing no real governance and in many cases no education
*Politicians being beholden to foreign actors and acting as puppets to wrestle power from each other.
Etc.,
It's simple to deduce the events that followed the Kacaan Government fully vindicated their achievements. What came after them has unambiguously been nothing short of a disaster.
Kacaan Era:
*Most factories built in Somalia
*Top Militaries in Africa that could protect its borders, skies and seas. With security in all parts of the country intact.
*Free education and long running literacy campaigns which educated large sections of people
*Bustling Informal economy and surging formal economy
*Construction of Ports and Roads/Highways/Bridges in Various areas
*Respect from around the world and leadership positions in Various groups i.e. Organization of African Union chairmanship, Arab League etc.,
*Various scholarship programs offered to students in top Western Universities around the world.
*Confidence from the citizenry and stable institutions.
*Somali shilling was closest in comparison to the USD in currency valuation during this period.
*Learning in the Science and math fields was beginning to flourish in top universities as well.
*Involvement in the peace process of different African countries that almost went to war, involvement in getting independence for African countries.
*The Somali Script being devised and implemented in schools. Which allowed for the exponential growth in books being written
*Somali cultural renaissance with the arts being important to the society in a progressive manner.
*Infrastructure programs
*People were able to live in peace and tend to their lives with pride and security due to stability
Etc.,
What came Post-Kacaan:
*Clan based attacks and human rights violations aimed primarily at civilians. Which consisted of large scale executions and rapes. Which caused never before seen famines to certain areas primarily Bay/Bakool
*Breakdown of Law and order which enabled clan militias to fight each other with weaponry stolen from the government that caused unimaginable destruction of infrastructure and loss of uncountable lives.
*The USC group in particular destroying much of the government data centers and their information holdings in the capital. The pillaging of civilian/business property and the killings of the owners in cold bold.
*Collapse of various infrastructure due to thievery and criminal behavior becoming the norm with no stability whatsoever.
*The US bringing AID due to the famine caused by the clan-based militias and then being attacked causing the Black Hawk Down fiasco, which followed UN Aid compounds being ransacked and robbed.
*Sustained criminal extortion rings and fights between different groups ensuing.
*The creation of various religious based insurgent groups and their brainwashing which has led to much instability in various areas and still poses a problem today.
*Piracy starting up and world powers sending ships to patrol our waters with frigates. Different groups dumping waste or over fishing with no consequences.
*Ethiopian invasion followed by AMISOM being brought in to mediate between people.
*All regions being beholden to the UN and regional countries taking advantage of weakness.
*Clan militias present in all areas with leaders which view themselves as Presidents (A recipe for disaster)
*Fragmentation of the country into different parts and lack of institutional capacity for all of them.
*People born after the kacaan knowing no real governance and in many cases no education
*Politicians being beholden to foreign actors and acting as puppets to wrestle power from each other.
Etc.,
It's simple to deduce the events that followed the Kacaan Government fully vindicated their achievements. What came after them has unambiguously been nothing short of a disaster.
Not gonna acknowledge the haters remarks kkk. His massive accomplishments speak for itself. The Kacaan was the glorious time period Somalia ever prospered and it was thanks to the founding GOAT of the Nation Jaalle Siad excluding. For the ppl that chose they would rather live in this current situation need to be drug tested wtf 
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