Are SL unionists against federalism?

For or against federalism


  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .
The so called federalism in ex Italian colony "Somalia" is essentially tribal ultrafederalism whereby every regional state but not Banadir region holds sovereign features and is totally independent from the "central" government in Xamar rendering "Somalia" non existent as a sngle, viable country.

Therefore folks from neighbouring Somaliland who reject independence, if you are for the likes of Majertinia etc having total autonomy from Mog then please tell me why do you support reunification with a "Somalia" that doesnt even exist in reality thanks to clan enclaves such as PL having full autuonomy over themselves at the expense of the GoSO

Surely only centralists who wants a fully dominant central govt can credibly be unionists even though the only sub-clans who could realistically lead such a central govt of a revived union of Somalia and SL along centralist lines are Abg*al, MX and Hab*r Aw*l
 
The so called federalism in ex Italian colony "Somalia" is essentially tribal ultrafederalism whereby every regional state but not Banadir region holds sovereign features and is totally independent from the "central" government in Xamar rendering "Somalia" non existent as a sngle, viable country.

Therefore folks from neighbouring Somaliland who reject independence, if you are for the likes of Majertinia etc having total autonomy from Mog then please tell me why do you support reunification with a "Somalia" that doesnt even exist in reality thanks to clan enclaves such as PL having full autuonomy over themselves at the expense of the GoSO

Surely only centralists who wants a fully dominant central govt can credibly be unionists even though the only sub-clans who could realistically lead such a central govt of a revived union of Somalia and SL along centralist lines are Abg*al, MX and Hab*r Aw*l
There is nothing for Somaliland to gain from joining Somalia at this point in time. We have our own internal issues and are better off devoting 100% of our resources to solving them.
 

FBIsomalia

True Puntlander
VIP
The so called federalism in ex Italian colony "Somalia" is essentially tribal ultrafederalism whereby every regional state but not Banadir region holds sovereign features and is totally independent from the "central" government in Xamar rendering "Somalia" non existent as a sngle, viable country.

Therefore folks from neighbouring Somaliland who reject independence, if you are for the likes of Majertinia etc having total autonomy from Mog then please tell me why do you support reunification with a "Somalia" that doesnt even exist in reality thanks to clan enclaves such as PL having full autuonomy over themselves at the expense of the GoSO

Surely only centralists who wants a fully dominant central govt can credibly be unionists even though the only sub-clans who could realistically lead such a central govt of a revived union of Somalia and SL along centralist lines are Abg*al, MX and Hab*r Aw*l
For your Info cause it seems you need some feedback before talking about PL. What so called Majertinia was kingdom before colonialism when you were a living under the tree. PL today is different in size and clans that living inside PL. Just focus on your Jeegaan propaganda without mention PL. Thanks.
 
For your Info cause it seems you need some feedback before talking about PL. What so called Majertinia was kingdom before colonialism when you were a living under the tree. PL today is different in size and clans that living inside PL. Just focus on your Jeegaan propaganda without mention PL. Thanks.
both sides will keep mentioning PL we're always in their mouth
 
Of course, I am against federalism.

Centralisation is the only solution to develop and progress.

No to clan federalism.
Centralism didn't work and destroyed the country, although people back in the days were even patriotic and qualified. What does you make think in a time were a bus driver can become president and people are more tribalistic than ever, that centralism will work ?
 
PL enclave is no threat to Somaliland Republic, merely an irritant and we'll work secretly to work with centralists in the South to help their central govt both retake and dismantle/dismember the tribal maamuls. This would ironically help SL de jure independence since Kenya and Ethiopia would wake up and realise that with the maamuls eliminated and Somalia recovered, only by officially recognising Somaliland they can save themselves from being once more threatened by the radical pan-Somali irredentism ideology
 
Centralism didn't work and destroyed the country, although people back in the days were even patriotic and qualified. What does you make think in a time were a bus driver can become president and people are more tribalistic than ever, that centralism will work ?

The country was far better under centralism for the average Somali than it is today. Centralisim is simply better for development than 7 presidents.

Remember centralism does mean a return to siad barre era. We can develop a better version based on democratic values and equality.

The current system of 7 semi quasi independent States is not sustainable.
 

Apophis

Ilahay baa mahad leh
VIP
The country was far better under centralism for the average Somali than it is today. Centralisim is simply better for development than 7 presidents.

Remember centralism does mean a return to siad barre era. We can develop a better version based on democratic values and equality.

The current system of 7 semi quasi independent States is not sustainable.
How is centralism better for development? Last one we had all clans invested everything in one city and we all suffered as a result after the collapse. Now everyone focuses on thier degaans. All we need is a permanent dastuur where everyone knows the limits of thier power but unfortunately people south of Mudug are not serious.
 
The country was far better under centralism for the average Somali than it is today. Centralisim is simply better for development than 7 presidents.

Remember centralism does mean a return to siad barre era. We can develop a better version based on democratic values and equality.

The current system of 7 semi quasi independent States is not sustainable.
Currently there is no system in place in Somalia, u can't use a failed state as an example for federalism vs centralism.

Centralism under the Kacaan era is what destroyed the country. He only developed one city and the military operated in the interest of some and against other tribes. It was the reason for 100k deads and more through the hand of the centralist regime. This was in a time tribalism was less than today, imagine in todays time giving people with cuqdad like farmaajo and kheyre power over all Somalis ?

Your problem is you base your opinion on what could happen in an ideal scenario. Centralism works only in a non tribalistic society, which is not the case for Somalis. History has thought as a lesson. I'm just telling you there is no reason for you and me sticking to these failed union as if it something holy. I have left these fake unionist dreams years ago when i realised there is zero hope for "Somaliwayn" and almost all of us hate each other. We can work together as Somalis without sharing an administration with other Somalis. Ogadenia, NFD and Djibouti will neither join the sinking ship.
 

Arma

GRAND Wizard of MJ SIXIR
VIP
PL enclave is no threat to Somaliland Republic, merely an irritant and we'll work secretly to work with centralists in the South to help their central govt both retake and dismantle/dismember the tribal maamuls. This would ironically help SL de jure independence since Kenya and Ethiopia would wake up and realise that with the maamuls eliminated and Somalia recovered, only by officially recognising Somaliland they can save themselves from being once more threatened by the radical pan-Somali irredentism ideology

Yeah yeah, I'll be seeing in Garowe, when you come to collect your "Somalia" passport.
 

Diaspora ambassador

Representative of Bari
Of course, I am against federalism.

Centralisation is the only solution to develop and progress.

No to clan federalism.
Actually if you want to develop the nation federalism is the way to go. Every single tuulo has a potential to be developed this way. The central gov takes care of defence national security foreign policy etc. The local administration take care of education development state constitution etc. The obly issue here is that the fgs will not bend or compromise in the negotiations with the federal member states. And as last somalis cannot have a central government because we are to tribal at heart we do not like to be ruled by another tribe let the tribes rule themselves regionally, and the main gov focus on securing the republic
 

Arma

GRAND Wizard of MJ SIXIR
VIP
With the exception of Hawiyes (who inhabit the capital and would profit greatly from Centralism), other Somali clans who are in favour of Centralism, I've noticed are from regions that are dirt poor and underdeveloped. Because they're at the bottom of the chain, they wanna prevent others from developing and enriching their regions.

Case in point: Dhulbahante and Marehan. These two are staunchly opposed to Federalism, and greatly in favour of the country being ruled from Xamar. Interesting that these two clans, happen to inhabit the two most poor and underdeveloped regions of Somalia: Gedo and Sool.
 
Currently there is no system in place in Somalia, u can't use a failed state as an example for federalism vs centralism.

Centralism under the Kacaan era is what destroyed the country. He only developed one city and the military operated in the interest of some and against other tribes. It was the reason for 100k deads and more through the hand of the centralist regime. This was in a time tribalism was less than today, imagine in todays time giving people with cuqdad like farmaajo and kheyre power over all Somalis ?

Your problem is you base your opinion on what could happen in an ideal scenario. Centralism works only in a non tribalistic society, which is not the case for Somalis. History has thought as a lesson. I'm just telling you there is no reason for you and me sticking to these failed union as if it something holy. I have left these fake unionist dreams years ago when i realised there is zero hope for "Somaliwayn" and almost all of us hate each other. We can work together as Somalis without sharing an administration with other Somalis. Ogadenia, NFD and Djibouti will neither join the sinking ship.

Siad Barre destroyed the country, not centralism.

It's funny how you completely ignore the 1960s SYL administration who was a centralist government. The amount of progress they made was far more than what they are given credit for. More progress was made in their 9-year tenure than under Barre or your failed farmaajo federal government.

Your arguing for a system that will not work. What will the federalism be, will it be by clans? We know clans hate each other. Will it be by sub-clan again when we know they hate each other? Sub-Sub clans? Sub-Sub-Sub clans? City states? Towns? Families?

Must I bring up the HDI figures again? Why is it than under separate administrations which you advocate for did the HDI in Somaliland and Puntland fall between 2006-2016? Why is it that poverty is almost 3 times higher than was present before the civil war.

Delusional.

You advocating for a system that will not work. Centralism worked somewhat for 28 years. There hasn't been a single year since the inception of these semi quasi-independent administrations that can be called a success.
 

Shaolin23

Seeker of knowledge and truth
VIP
Siad Barre destroyed the country, not centralism.

It's funny how you completely ignore the 1960s SYL administration who was a centralist government. The amount of progress they made was far more than what they are given credit for. More progress was made in their 9-year tenure than under Barre or your failed farmaajo federal government.

Your arguing for a system that will not work. What will the federalism be, will it be by clans? We know clans hate each other. Will it be by sub-clan again when we know they hate each other? Sub-Sub clans? Sub-Sub-Sub clans? City states? Towns? Families?

Must I bring up the HDI figures again? Why is it than under separate administrations which you advocate for did the HDI in Somaliland and Puntland fall between 2006-2016? Why is it that poverty is almost 3 times higher than was present before the civil war.

Delusional.

You advocating for a system that will not work. Centralism worked somewhat for 28 years. There hasn't been a single year since the inception of these semi quasi-independent administrations that can be called a success.
SYL government did more than the Kacaan? Historical revisionism at its finest
 
SYL government did more than the Kacaan? Historical revisionism at its finest



Siad Barre government was completely reliant on the red block for development. Whereas the previous SYL government actually were the ones who tried to build institutions organically.

Somali airlines
Most important infrastructure such as the Parliament, national theatre etc.
Not to mention completely democratic, no political prisoners or genocides.
Waged a war on 3 fronts, invading Ethiopia in 1964 and supporting rebels in NFD not to mention planning an invasion of Djibouti without wrecking the economy or being completely reliant on the Soviet Union.

All while remaining neutral in world affairs and having a nomadic population above 80%.

SYL and Siad Barre's reign cannot be compared. One left the country at peace and having a vision for the future and one left the country in ruins creating a civil war that rages today.
 

Shaolin23

Seeker of knowledge and truth
VIP


Siad Barre government was completely reliant on the red block for development. Whereas the previous SYL government actually were the ones who tried to build institutions organically.

Somali airlines
Most important infrastructure such as the Parliament, national theatre etc.
Not to mention completely democratic, no political prisoners or genocides.
Waged a war on 3 fronts, invading Ethiopia in 1964 and supporting rebels in NFD not to mention planning an invasion of Djibouti without wrecking the economy or being completely reliant on the Soviet Union.

All while remaining neutral in world affairs and having a nomadic population above 80%.

SYL and Siad Barre's reign cannot be compared. One left the country at peace and having a vision for the future and one left the country in ruins creating a civil war that rages today.
Your talking complete hot garbage 1969 revolution happened for a reason give me straight hard facts what SYL built and what the Kacaan built i know the answers i just want to make you embarrass yourself you can be a regime opposition and that's fine but don't make up stories
 
Siad Barre destroyed the country, not centralism.

It's funny how you completely ignore the 1960s SYL administration who was a centralist government. The amount of progress they made was far more than what they are given credit for. More progress was made in their 9-year tenure than under Barre or your failed farmaajo federal government.

Your arguing for a system that will not work. What will the federalism be, will it be by clans? We know clans hate each other. Will it be by sub-clan again when we know they hate each other? Sub-Sub clans? Sub-Sub-Sub clans? City states? Towns? Families?

Must I bring up the HDI figures again? Why is it than under separate administrations which you advocate for did the HDI in Somaliland and Puntland fall between 2006-2016? Why is it that poverty is almost 3 times higher than was present before the civil war.

Delusional.

You advocating for a system that will not work. Centralism worked somewhat for 28 years. There hasn't been a single year since the inception of these semi quasi-independent administrations that can be called a success.
1) Let us first define 'progress' as an improvement of different sectors like economics, education, administration or security sector. Expect for the economy sector were the kacaan and the SYL were both shit and didn't fo anything memorable, the kacaan outshined SYL in every other discipline.

2) Centralism destroyed the country not (only) MSB. It gave a small group of people power over a clan diverse country, which was the base of nepotism, injustice and corruption and ended in the civil war. We are not a functioning nationality we identify through tribes and subtribes.

3) I'm not advocating for federalism you didn't get my point. Still It's laughable if you compare the federalism today with the centralism of 1960-1969 for a simple reason. The SYL were handed over a beautiful patriotic country with no issues, hence they could made little progress. wheras the states like SL and PL were formed after a brutal civil (caused through centralism) from nothing. The only comparison would be a federal state from 1960-1969 with the little progressing centralist state from 1960-1969.

4) Somalia is hopeless. Some people like federalism and other some like centralism, but that is none of our business. As SL we should just focus on SL, it doesn't make sense to blindly try to unite with Somalia, wether in a federal or central system.
 

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