"Arabised" names but not language

[balanbalis]

The majority of Somalis have Arabic names or even " Somalised” Arabic names ( e.g. Asli, jamac, abokor), and we do have some loan words that are Arabic but why was the language never adopted unlike Sudan for example? ( not complaining, I’m grateful we kept our language)

 

[Doctorabdi]

The majority of Somalis have Arabic names or even " Somalised” Arabic names ( e.g. Asli, jamac, abokor), and we do have some loan words that are Arabic but why was the language never adopted unlike Sudan for example? ( not complaining, I’m grateful we kept our language)

There was never a significant amount of arabians, that migrated to somalia. In sudan. For example, arabians migrated to these regions bringing their language and mixing with the natives. Sudan especially has out of the regions, the most significant arabian admixture. Arabians and other afro-asiatic communities are paternalistic, so those arabians who mixed with local natives spoke arabic instead and then kept going.

Also, somalis are very insular even with our promixity to arabia we still regarded them as ajnabis. They were never allowed in the interior of somaliweyn unless with a somali guide, hence why minorities sticked to the coastal cities.

Arabic is indeed important, as we used it for trade and the deen. It isn't foreign per say, but it has always been the secondary language never a primary.

 

[𐒖𐒐𐒈𐒝𐒑𐒛𐒐𐒘_200]

There was never a significant amount of arabians, that migrated to somalia. In sudan. For example, arabians migrated to these regions bringing their language and mixing with the natives. Sudan especially has out of the regions, the most significant arabian admixture. Arabians and other afro-asiatic communities are paternalistic, so those arabians who mixed with local natives spoke arabic instead and then kept going.

Also, somalis are very insular even with our promixity to arabia we still regarded them as ajnabis. They were never allowed in the interior of somaliweyn unless with a somali guide, hence why minorities sticked to the coastal cities.

Arabic is indeed important, as we used it for trade and the deen. It isn't foreign per say, but it has always been the secondary language never a primary.

Sick and tired of these obsessed arab nonsense threadd and don't lie majority of Somalis have Somali and muslim names.

 

[TheLand]

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[Doctorabdi]

Sick and tired of these obsessed arab nonsense threadd and don't lie majority of Somalis have Somali and muslim names.

If you are so tired of these threads, why do you keep responding to them? Most threads in the culture and history section have very little to do with arabs but instead focus either on the origins of somalis or history of somalis.

This thread is a consequence of you, you do realise that? You were the one talking about "arab" names, and what not

 

[Doctorabdi]

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Do you have any source for that?

 

[𐒖𐒐𐒈𐒝𐒑𐒛𐒐𐒘_200]

If you are so tired of these threads, why do you keep responding to them? Most threads in the culture and history section have very little to do with arabs but instead focus either on the origins of somalis or history of somalis.

This thread is a consequence of you, you do realise that? You were the one talking about "arab" names, and what not

Nope i'm calling it out you nacaas

 

[TheLand]

Do you have any source for that?

Start with something as simple as days in the week. Can you name them in Somali? How about the color blue?

 

[Doctorabdi]

Start with something as simple as days in the week. Can you name them in Somali? How about the color blue?

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[TheLand]

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[makadoor]

They were never allowed in the interior of somaliweyn unless with a somali guide, hence why minorities sticked to the coastal cities.

Why is this a very common saying? civilized cities in the interior such as Harar Awsa Jabart Bali and others were full of arab families like bani Aqiil Bani Makhzum Balaw/Bili and Ba-Alawis..etc I don't know why this is a very widespread opinion, but it seems inaccurate .


maybe it could be applied after 17th century when the cawaan geeljire culture took over

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

The majority of Somalis have Arabic names or even " Somalised” Arabic names ( e.g. Asli, jamac, abokor), and we do have some loan words that are Arabic but why was the language never adopted unlike Sudan for example? ( not complaining, I’m grateful we kept our language)

the reason sudan "adopted" the language is because from the 15th century onwards arab tribes from the hijaz settled and conquered large parts of the country and so the language became dominant. So Sudan is similar to north africa and the middle east in that regard whereas Somalia was never saw a large scale conquest and settlement of arab tribes and is so more similar to muslim countries like Indonesia instead of Sudan

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

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[balanbalis]

Sick and tired of these obsessed arab nonsense threadd and don't lie majority of Somalis have Somali and muslim names.

Bro I was just curious If you’re that curious look thriugh all my posts and you’ll see how I rarely even mention the word ‘Arab’

 

[giire12]

I also think it depends on regions, some regions have more Italian loan words, my region we have alot of Arabic words, Like

Talajad
Xabxab
Beed
Laxoox
Saxan
Sabuun
Xamaam
Sariir
Macqul
Malqacad
Sharabaad
Etc...

 

[balanbalis]

I also think it depends on regions, some regions have more Italian loan words, my region we have alot of Arabic words, Like

Talajad
Xabxab
Beed
Laxoox
Saxan
Sabuun
Xamaam
Sariir
Macqul
Malqacad
Sharabad
Etc...

Are you reer waqooyi too? My family say the same things except we say ‘suuli’ or some times ‘musqusha’ instead of ‘xamaam’

 

[giire12]

Are you reer waqooyi too? My family say the same things except we say ‘suuli’ or some times ‘musqusha’ instead of ‘xamaam’

Yes I am reer waqooyi, your right, my family also say suuli for toilet, but when it comes to shower/bath xamam is used instead of suuli.

 

[balanbalis]

Yes I am reer waqooyi, your right, my family also say suuli for toilet, but when it comes to shower/bath xamam is used instead of suuli.

for the actual bath we just say ‘bathka’ or ‘showerka’ damn maybe I’m white washed

 

[giire12]

for the actual bath we just say ‘bathka’ or ‘showerka’ damn maybe I’m white washed

Same here, probably this applies to all reer UK, the word bathka and showerka waa Gen Z , "Xamamkad ku ragty", usually refers to shower/bath. "Suli ban uu bahanahey", usually means "i need a toilet".

 

[The alchemist]

Many Arabs live in Sudan, that is why Arabic is spoken. Arab men ~1200 years ago moved into Sudan, married women that were local to reduce inbreeding, and their children spoke Arabic and kept their fathers culture, the patriarch.

That is why you have people who walk around with these genetics:

That is why haplogroup J is in high frequency among Sudanese Arabs. And yes, I checked YFull, exept for one sample, over 50 samples that were available were under Arab.

Sudan got several large tribes that were not Arabized but came from and maintianed true Arab pedigrees. The autosomal signal reflects such ancestry even after heavily intermixing with locals, with individuals reaching 50%:

These people are not like Somalis at all:

These are mixed and do not look like Nubians either, genetically. They are Arabs that turned somewhat local. They're not locals that turned into Arabs.

The closest people that come to Nubians are the general Ja'ali who were Arabs that mixed with Nubian women. They can sometimes look like Nubians with extra Arab ancestry. But culturally, linguisticaly, and in their history, they are tribally and distinct by identity. But Nubians in Sudan are heavily Arbized and confusingly also somewhat mixed with Arabs sometimes and so Nubians talk like riverine Ja'alis and you cannot often see the difference. Similar with the Shaigiyas. But both of these groups got more complexity with highly Arab pockets that probably looks like the Bataheen or the highly Arab Juhyana Arabs with Nubian structure instead of Saharan or Red Sea Hills Cushitic base that many of the Kawahala and Shukria got. All these tribes got their separate history and are highly related to different tribes so they are mixed across. For example, the Bataheen are much related to the Kawahla, Shukriya and Ja'alis through diagonal relations. Tribally those groups are from separate tribes.

Somalis were just Somalis. Why would they be Arabized?

I checked available data for other Sudanese like Beja with 42 sample size, 38% were Arab! Around 52% were E1b1b, which is going to be Cushitic related (this matches the Hadendowa Cushitic levels:

The 38% Arab YDNA sort of reflects the general trend as well since Beni-Ameer got around 35%.

There is an Arab group in that list called Arakien, who are of some kind of Sufi practicing tribe, and they are 66% paternally Arab.

The Ja'ali are described as ~40% Arab. Which makes sense. Ja'ali is known to have been a confederation that integrated smaller clans to itself that needed help. That is where the name nickname Al-Ja'al came from in the first place. But they are Arab who included other within themselves.

The selection of Sudanese Nubians that were sampled had high Arab frequency as well. I speculate this came about because Nubian elite males let their daughters marry an Arab man and that Arab man would have been assimilated into the Nubain, marrying into Nubian prestige family.

Or it could be more complex. That as Nubians got influenced by the Arab tribal style of the Arabs, they later incorporated Arab into their tribal borg and as such, they have sometimes high frequency of Arab ancestral lineage. But you wont find this to be the case for Egyptian Nubians, perhaps not even majority of Nubians. And further, the Nubians might have taken on an Arab patrilineal tradition, increasing the frequency and identifying based on tribal relations in the Arab fashion. As such, you have high Y-DNA that is 50%. The samples were taken from 2nd cataract down to Dongola, a bit below the 3rd cararact. Some of the Danagla do actually identify as Arab because of Arabization, while others claim Arab lineages. Both are true. Most probably just see themselves as Nubians with Arab affinity because Danagla only speak Arabic and participate in the riverine broader national culture in the same way as the Ja'alis and such.

Sudan has a complex history. Many of these notion that it is simply locals that started speaking Arabic is false.

I mean, the Messiria who are said to be very African (they have two section, lighter people and people who are very dark) had ~43% Arab Y-DNA.

You have the Rizeigat, another Baggara group who are Arab.

These people did not turn out to look like that because of Nubian ancestry. They actually don't have it (if only in minor porportion). They are a mix of Arabs that mixed with Saharan peoples with likely minor Cushitic.

From the same tribe involving the RSF leader Hemedti and his siblings:

These are not Arabized peoples, but Arabs that live on that land that have some local/regional admixture and are not Nubian mixed unlike the Ja'ali and Shaigiya.

So to say again, why would a country full of Arabs with real Arab history be compared to Somalis that are not Arab? People really underestimate how deep the Arab dhaqan of Sudan is. They have separate tribes that have their own Arab cultures that they maintained for centuries. They're not Arab like how Egyptians are, mainly through lingusitic shifts and later nationalism.

Sometimes a light skinned Sudanese who is Nubian has zero Arab while a Dinka looking Baggara definitely has Arab roots, but constant maternal mixing with Darfur women made them look like them, despite having a very separate dhaqan. In fact, those groups don't get along. You see how the RSF massacred Darfur inhabitants. It's a tragegy and it highlights their distinction of origin. People who share a lot of genetics but very separate histories going centuries back.

Really the Arabized groups are Nubians, some of the Bejas, the people of Darfur and other potential people that could be of Nilo-Saharan origin that reside in the south but on the northern side. There is remnant of Arabization as lingua franca in South Sudan as well.