Allah Informs Us that He never forgot a conversation that took place in the Bible

[MuslimManMe]

They claim the prophet forged it; if that is the case, then his APA citation must have been impeccable.
In reality, Allah declares that the Qur'an came to confirm that which was in the previous scriptures.
The most sublime example occurs with regards to a conversation regarding the People of Lot.

In the Old Testament, Abraham pleads with Allah through his angels regarding the fate of the people of Soddom
The exchange in Genesi 18 goes
"And Abraham approached and said, "Will You even destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Perhaps there are fifty righteous men in the midst of the city; will You even destroy and not forgive the place for the sake of the fifty righteous men who are in its midst?

Far be it from You to do a thing such as this, to put to death the righteous with the wicked so that the righteous should be like the wicked. Far be it from You! Will the Judge of the entire earth not perform justice?"

And the Lord said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous men within the city, I will forgive the entire place for their sake.

And Abraham answered and said, "Behold now I have commenced to speak to the Lord, although I am dust and ashes.


Perhaps the fifty righteous men will be missing five. Will You destroy the entire city because of five?" And He said, "I will not destroy if I find there forty-five."

And he continued further to speak to Him, and he said, "Perhaps forty will be found there." And He said, "I will not do it for the sake of the forty."

And he said, "Please, let the Lord's wrath not be kindled, and I will speak. Perhaps thirty will be found there." And He said, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."

And he said, "Behold now I have desired to speak to the Lord, perhaps twenty will be found there." And He said, "I will not destroy for the sake of the twenty."

And he said, "Please, let the Lord's wrath not be kindled, and I will speak yet this time, perhaps ten will be found there." And He said, "I will not destroy for the sake of the ten.""




Allah reminds us of this in the Qur'an regarding his mercy, regarding this very conversation, and regarding the depravity of the city saying that
"So We brought out whoever was in the cities of the believers.
And We found not within them other than a [single] house of Muslims" (51:35-36)

For the sake of 10, the Lord would have spared the twin cities. But he comes back in the Qur'an to inform us that there was not even that number within the city.


Subhanallah

 

[MuslimManMe]

(Pharaoh] said, "Then what is the case of the former generations?"
[Moses] said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets."
(20:51-52)

 

[DeadStar]

This is amazing.
MashAllah!

 

[MuslimManMe]

This is amazing.
MashAllah!

Yes akhi but the atheists will skip over it in their rage and hatred for their lord

 

[Kafir]

Never forgetting a conversation from the Bible would be impressive if:

There were a lot of conversations

Nobody around Muhammad remembered them from the Bible to inform him.

You prove he never forgot a conversation by giving an example of a single conversation he remembered. The strength of your argument depends on quantity, a list of different conversations would be more appropriate. The Bible mentions that God was willing to spare the city if there were 10 righteous people. The Bible also talks about the destruction of both of the cities. Even in the Bible there weren't ten righteous people in the cities otherwise the cities would not have been destroyed, this isn't something unique to the Quran. When Muhammad is retelling this story he's telling the same story in his own words.

Also the Quran seems to be making only a brief reference to this story and telling you about the story in different words (not even 10). So how is a Muslim supposed to know about the story of Sodom? It looks like they're going to need the Bible doesn't it?

 

[MuslimManMe]

Never forgetting a conversation from the Bible would be impressive if:

There were a lot of conversations

Nobody around Muhammad remembered them from the Bible to inform him.

You prove he never forgot a conversation by giving an example of a single conversation he remembered. The strength of your argument depends on quantity, a list of different conversations would be more appropriate. The Bible mentions that God was willing to spare the city if there were 10 righteous people. The Bible also talks about the destruction of both of the cities. Even in the Bible there weren't ten righteous people in the cities otherwise the cities would not have been destroyed, this isn't something unique to the Quran. When Muhammad is retelling this story he's telling the same story in his own words.

Also the Quran seems to be making only a brief reference to this story and telling you about the story in different words (not even 10). So how is a Muslim supposed to know about the story of Sodom? It looks like they're going to need the Bible doesn't it?

Brothers here we have an atheist willfully ignoring several things:

The continuation of a very subtle point from the Bible in the qur'an without missing the rhyming scheme or the meaning

The prophets illiteracy to double check Jewish sources.


In the bible the Lord says that he will save the cities if he finds 10 righteous people. In the,Qur'an Allah says that he took out whoever was believers from the cities and that he did not find anything except a household of righteous people.


It's right there but your hatred for the truth will cause you to ignore the subtlety of your creator

(Sahih International)
There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.

-Sura Yusuf, Ayah 111

 

[Kafir]

Brothers here we have an atheist willfully ignoring several things:

The continuation of a very subtle point from the Bible in the qur'an without missing the rhyming scheme or the meaning

The prophets illiteracy to double check Jewish sources.


In the bible the Lord says that he will save the cities if he finds 10 righteous people. In the,Qur'an Allah says that he took out whoever was believers from the cities and that he did not find anything except a household of righteous people.


It's right there but your hatred for the truth will cause you to ignore the subtlety of your creator

(Sahih International)
There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.

-Sura Yusuf, Ayah 111

"The prophets illiteracy to double check Jewish sources."

Talk to me directly. Look at the third line from my last post. What does it say? It refers to people being around Muhammad during his lifetime who were familiar with the stories from the Bible to be able to tell Muhammad about them. Being illiterate doesn't make him immune to knowing about stories from the Bible. This is what you're arguing.

The Quran and the Bible are referring to the same story. And? Where is the miracle in that? Because Muhammad is illiterate right?

"Allah took out whoever was believers from the cities" This is the miracle that is supposed to make you believe the Quran is true right? How do you know this really happened?

 

[MuslimManMe]

"The prophets illiteracy to double check Jewish sources."

Talk to me directly. Look at the third line from my last post. What does it say? It refers to people being around Muhammad during his lifetime who were familiar with the stories from the Bible to be able to tell Muhammad about them. Being illiterate doesn't make him immune to knowing about stories from the Bible. This is what you're arguing.

The Quran and the Bible are referring to the same story. And? Where is the miracle in that? Because Muhammad is illiterate right?

"Allah took out whoever was believers from the cities" This is the miracle that is supposed to make you believe the Quran is true right? How do you know this really happened?

Genesi 18 goes
"And Abraham approached and said, "Will You even destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Perhaps there are fifty righteous men in the midst of the city; will You even destroy and not forgive the place for the sake of the fifty righteous men who are in its midst?

Far be it from You to do a thing such as this, to put to death the righteous with the wicked so that the righteous should be like the wicked. Far be it from You! Will the Judge of the entire earth not perform justice?"

And the Lord said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous men within the city, I will forgive the entire place for their sake.

And Abraham answered and said, "Behold now I have commenced to speak to the Lord, although I am dust and ashes.


Perhaps the fifty righteous men will be missing five. Will You destroy the entire city because of five?" And He said, "I will not destroy if I find there forty-five."

And he continued further to speak to Him, and he said, "Perhaps forty will be found there." And He said, "I will not do it for the sake of the forty."

And he said, "Please, let the Lord's wrath not be kindled, and I will speak. Perhaps thirty will be found there." And He said, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."

And he said, "Behold now I have desired to speak to the Lord, perhaps twenty will be found there." And He said, "I will not destroy for the sake of the twenty."

And he said, "Please, let the Lord's wrath not be kindled, and I will speak yet this time, perhaps ten will be found there." And He said, "I will not destroy for the sake of the ten.""

 

[Kafir]

Genesi 18 goes
"And Abraham approached and said, "Will You even destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Perhaps there are fifty righteous men in the midst of the city; will You even destroy and not forgive the place for the sake of the fifty righteous men who are in its midst?

Far be it from You to do a thing such as this, to put to death the righteous with the wicked so that the righteous should be like the wicked. Far be it from You! Will the Judge of the entire earth not perform justice?"

And the Lord said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous men within the city, I will forgive the entire place for their sake.

And Abraham answered and said, "Behold now I have commenced to speak to the Lord, although I am dust and ashes.


Perhaps the fifty righteous men will be missing five. Will You destroy the entire city because of five?" And He said, "I will not destroy if I find there forty-five."

And he continued further to speak to Him, and he said, "Perhaps forty will be found there." And He said, "I will not do it for the sake of the forty."

And he said, "Please, let the Lord's wrath not be kindled, and I will speak. Perhaps thirty will be found there." And He said, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."

And he said, "Behold now I have desired to speak to the Lord, perhaps twenty will be found there." And He said, "I will not destroy for the sake of the twenty."

And he said, "Please, let the Lord's wrath not be kindled, and I will speak yet this time, perhaps ten will be found there." And He said, "I will not destroy for the sake of the ten.""





View attachment 44636

You didn't answer anything I said.

Yes. The Bible and Quran are referring to the same story. And?

Finish your argument.

 

[MuslimManMe]

(Sahih International)
And among them are those who listen to you. But can you cause the deaf to hear, although they will not use reason?

-Sura Yunus, Ayah 42

And among them are those who look at you. But can you guide the blind although they will not [attempt to] see?

-Sura Yunus, Ayah 43

 

[Kafir]

(Sahih International)
And among them are those who listen to you. But can you cause the deaf to hear, although they will not use reason?

-Sura Yunus, Ayah 42

And among them are those who look at you. But can you guide the blind although they will not [attempt to] see?

-Sura Yunus, Ayah 43

Talk to me please. I've asked you some questions.

 

[MuslimManMe]

(Sahih International)
And it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

-Sura Ya-Seen, Ayah 10

 

[Kafir]

(Sahih International)
And it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

-Sura Ya-Seen, Ayah 10

Why won't they believe? I'm willing to believe. You made an incomplete claim (the Quran being similar to the Bible) but never finished. Clearly on some level you're interested in trying to convince me. Don't be lazy and keep that motivation. Answer my question.

You mention the Quran referring to the same story as the Bible, please tell me the implication.

 

[MuslimManMe]

Why won't they believe? I'm willing to believe. You made an incomplete claim (the Quran being similar to the Bible) but never finished. Clearly on some level you're interested in trying to convince me. Don't be lazy and keep that motivation. Answer my question.

You mention the Quran referring to the same story as the Bible, please tell me the implication.

(Sahih International)
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 2

(Sahih International)
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 3




(Sahih International)
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 7

 

[Kafir]

(Sahih International)
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 2

(Sahih International)
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 3




(Sahih International)
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 7

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment."

So Allah himself set a seal on my heart/hearing/vision and that's why I won't believe? And he'll punish me for not believing? But hang on he's the one who did this. How is it my fault for not believing?

 

[MuslimManMe]

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment."

So Allah himself set a seal on my heart/hearing/vision and that's why I won't believe? And he'll punish me for not believing? But hang on he's the one who did this. How is it my fault for not believing?

(Sahih International)
And if Allah willed, He could have made them [of] one religion, but He admits whom He wills into His mercy. And the wrongdoers have not any protector or helper.

-Sura Ash-Shura, Ayah 8

 

[Kafir]

(Sahih International)
And if Allah willed, He could have made them [of] one religion, but He admits whom He wills into His mercy. And the wrongdoers have not any protector or helper.

-Sura Ash-Shura, Ayah 8

Answer my last one. Scour the Quran for a way out of that conundrum. Allah set a seal on my heart preventing me from believing. Allah will punish me for not believing. Allah is punishing me for something he did.

 

[MuslimManMe]

Answer my last one. Scour the Quran for a way out of that conundrum. Allah set a seal on my heart preventing me from believing. Allah will punish me for not believing. Allah is punishing me for something he did.

(Sahih International)
He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.

-Sura Al-Anbiya', Ayah 23

 

[Kafir]

(Sahih International)
He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.

-Sura Al-Anbiya', Ayah 23

Looks like I got you there eh? Don't have an answer?

 

[MuslimManMe]

Looks like I got you there eh? Don't have an answer?

(Sahih International)
And they do not come to you with an argument except that We bring you the truth and the best explanation.

-Sura Al-Furqan, Ayah 33