HISTORY AJAN is 'Azania'?

[Idilinaa]

I think shungwayah was in lamu archipelago instead and tunni migrated down from juba? I thought them and their other digil kins migrated down from shabelle.

Yes, tunni has nothing to do with shungwaya nor do they claim it in their oral history, the digil tunnis claim their ancestors originally migrated from eastern Ethiopia, following modern day juga river, just like the rest of digil tribes , they were then later on joined by groups from other tribes over the centuries such as garre, cawrmale, hawiye & other Digils .

Shungwayah is a swahili origin mythology. It is basically Southern Somali tribes migrating down and settling on the northern swahili coast . It has nothing to do with northern Somalia or farming on that end.

Spoke about this in greater detail in a recent thread

I read that book before. He actually posits in the book that Shungwayah traditions is most likely just Somali tribes that came to be known as ''Katwa'' migrating down from Juba and carrying the memories of where they came from.

The only community with a sizeable camel population are Somalis. oromo's never originally owned camels even or neither did other southern cushitic speakers. So it's explains itself what the early Northern Swahili coastal populations might have looked like if we go by archeology. A mix of Somali and Bantu speakers

Somalis are also interwoven in a lot of the Northern Swahili origin stories alongside Bantu groups like Segeju, Mijikenda etc and they shared power with the Swahili bantu ruling class in places like Lamu and Siyu until the 18th century.

Tunni's oral tradition states they lived on the Juba River, then moved south and settled between Kismaayo and Lamu. This suprisingly also agrees with both written, archeological and linguistic evidences

That same Oral tradition you can find it qouted by Derek Nurse who is a prominent Swahili researcher and linguist in his study: When Northern Swahili met southern Somali:

And he was amazed with how much the linguistic evidence agrees with the oral story: (ND=Northern Swahili)

 

[Burqad]

It would be the Garre not Tunni

 

[Step a side]

During the days of Adal and the Portuguese, Ajan was referred to the southern kingdoms with Mogadishu being its main one while Adal was the northern.

^Ajan and Aiaua ( Hawiye)

^ Same thing again

^Ajan & Haouya ( Hawiye in French)

^Ajan with Mogadishu as one of its main towns

^ Same thing again. Ajan’s principal towns are Mogadishu and Brava

 

[NidarNidar]

Yeah, but aji is the son of Dir that was the father of doombira and Hanaftire, so isaaqs daroods and dir are all aji. It gained the meaning of noble in the north because of that, the only clans that aren’t aji are madhibaan, ( maybe fiqishini too but they’re basically dhulos)

Aji was Dir father, not the son. Doombira's father was Digaale Aji brother of Dir Aji, and Isaaq are Dir(Mahe), and share a common ancestor with other Dir with tmcra of 1,600.

 

[Guure⁸]

Nah just mispronounciation of ajam

 

[Burqad]

Nah just mispronounciation of ajam View attachment 375482

in Somali, syllables cannot end on final “m”, “k” or “t”, so they are replaced by “n”, “g” and “d”, respectively.

 

[Step a side]

Nah just mispronounciation of ajam View attachment 375482

That’s a weak 19th century colonial guy commenting his own opinion on old maps when he dont even speak arabic. Cajam is not the same as Ajan and Cajam cannot designate 1 region when most of the world is "Cajam" in that respect. Ajam means non arabic speaker and is a linguistic term not a geographical or tribal term like ajan/hawiye. If it was a geographical or tribal term then 95% of the world would be called bar al ajam since most ppl arent arabic speakers.

 

[Step a side]

It was never bar al ajam, not a single map calls it ajam but they all call it ajan or bar al ajan (land of hawiye) or sahil al ajan (coast of hawiye)

 

[Step a side]

Arabs transliterate all the time, they even transliterate words they first translated to the Latin authors. Ibn Said says he met the Hawiye هاوية of East Africa. The Europeans a few centuries later call it the Ajan coast, shortly after new Arab writers then rewrite the same location their predeccesors visited as اجان.

 

[Step a side]

Pieter derideaux who writes on medieval africa

--- Medieval East Africa ---

Translations of what Foreign Authors wrote about East Africa (Land of the Zanj, Zenj, Zinj, Zang) during the Classical times and Middle Ages

pieterderideaux.jimdofree.com

He confirms Ajan is Hawiye.

 

[Mckenzie]

It was never bar al ajam, not a single map calls it ajam but they all call it ajan or bar al ajan (land of hawiye) or sahil al ajan (coast of hawiye)

View attachment 375530
Pieter derideaux who writes on medieval africa

--- Medieval East Africa ---

Translations of what Foreign Authors wrote about East Africa (Land of the Zanj, Zenj, Zinj, Zang) during the Classical times and Middle Ages

pieterderideaux.jimdofree.com

He confirms Ajan is Hawiye.

Keep cooking these amateurs abti. Cajam Carab my ass. "Coast of Non Arab" "Land of Non Arab" Yea the Arabs just happen to say everything in between Guardafui to the Juba river is "Non Arab". Dawg they saying Maydh and Las Qoray are bastions of Arabia while Xamar, Brava etc a metropolis full of Arabs, Persians, Zaydis, Indians etc is non Arab. Ibn Battuta and many travellers confirm the people from Zeila to Mogadishu are of the same stock i.e ethnicity and language. Yet loggerheads in here be picking and choosing the narrative.

This is how illogical their argument is.

>+ 1= a positive number (Arab)
>- 1 = a negative number (Non Arab)

1, 3, 6, -3, - 2, 2, -5 etc.

Imagine i started counting this as, "one, three, six, Negative number, minus two, two, two, minus five etc.

Why would i call -3 a negative number when it is not the only negative number? Why would i call -3 a negative number but not call 1, 3, 6, 2 etc a positive number? Why would i call -3 a negative number when that is the absolute term not the subjective term i.e minus three? Imagine -3 in latin was pronounced similar to 'negative number', will i now discount -2, -1, -4, -5 etc?

That is how dense these people are that you are debating. Absolute bonkers mate.

Then you have the Shungwayan Azanian bush niggas. These folks even worse. Azania corresponding to the Swahili Zanj (Blacks) all the way to South Africa and referred to as an inland or grassland territories of people by Ptolemy and the Periplus, with Barbaria referencing the seas and Ethiopis referencing the rivers, doesn't channel any logic into them.

Ninka kaa hadal badiyo dhaxalka aabahaa ayuu kaa reebaa. Ajan is a modern term, it came into existence around the time the Hawiye were reported inhabiting Somalia. It also corresponds to the exact Hawiye territory. Geographers make a point to show Ajan as a smaller seperate region north of Xamar when the Omani Government made claims over the Benadir in the late 18th century. Are the Non Arabic speakers in the room with us now? Did the Swahili Zanj migrate to Galmudug and Hirshabelle instead? Ajan is Hawiye. Not Cajam, not Azania, not Aji, not Ajuran. HAWIYE. Ninka aan ogayn ha ogaado. @El Nino @Kun_Ciil @Step a side

 

[Guure⁸]

Keep cooking these amateurs abti. Cajam Carab my ass. "Coast of Non Arab" "Land of Non Arab" Yea the Arabs just happen to say everything in between Guardafui to the Juba river is "Non Arab". Dawg they saying Maydh and Las Qoray are bastions of Arabia while Xamar, Brava etc a metropolis full of Arabs, Persians, Zaydis, Indians etc is non Arab. Ibn Battuta and many travellers confirm the people from Zeila to Mogadishu are of the same stock i.e ethnicity and language. Yet loggerheads in here be picking and choosing the narrative.

This is how illogical their argument is.

>+ 1= a positive number (Arab)
>- 1 = a negative number (Non Arab)

1, 3, 6, -3, - 2, 2, -5 etc.

Imagine i started counting this as, "one, three, six, Negative number, minus two, two, two, minus five etc.

Why would i call -3 a negative number when it is not the only negative number? Why would i call -3 a negative number but not call 1, 3, 6, 2 etc a positive number? Why would i call -3 a negative number when that is the absolute term not the subjective term i.e minus three? Imagine -3 in latin was pronounced similar to 'negative number', will i now discount -2, -1, -4, -5 etc?

That is how dense these people are that you are debating. Absolute bonkers mate.

Then you have the Shungwayan Azanian bush niggas. These folks even worse. Azania corresponding to the Swahili Zanj (Blacks) all the way to South Africa and referred to as an inland or grassland territories of people by Ptolemy and the Periplus, with Barbaria referencing the seas and Ethiopis referencing the rivers, doesn't channel any logic into them.

Ninka kaa hadal badiyo dhaxalka aabahaa ayuu kaa reebaa. Ajan is a modern term, it came into existence around the time the Hawiye were reported inhabiting Somalia. It also corresponds to the exact Hawiye territory. Geographers make a point to show Ajan as a smaller seperate region north of Xamar when the Omani Government made claims over the Benadir in the late 18th century. Are the Non Arabic speakers in the room with us now? Did the Swahili Zanj migrate to Galmudug and Hirshabelle instead? Ajan is Hawiye. Not Cajam, not Azania, not Aji, not Ajuran. HAWIYE. Ninka aan ogayn ha ogaado. @El Nino @Kun_Ciil @Step a side

Carabs called the north bar al ajam too lol

 

[Mckenzie]

Carabs called the north bar al ajam too lol

They also called the whole of Somalia the kingdom of Adel with its capital at Zeila. Others have called Somalis an Ethiopian race, a Black race etc. Those are just overlapping exceptional generalisations due to the vague descriptions of a less known people. The overlap in this case is that the people of Zeila to Mogadishu are one Somali ethnic group. What displaces Ajan by description or location is done so in passing commentary. When distinctions are made the distinction is that Bar Al Ajan or Cote D'Ajan is always geographically pointed by metrics like longitude, latitude, mountains, seas, rivers, borders and chorographical markers to the Hawiye area by the Latin and Arabs. They record the presence of Zaydis in the Ajan cities of Mogadishu and Brava as recent as the death of an Imam in Yemen in the 16th century, this is also mentioned by Sharif Aidarus when he discusses the Ajuran Empire.

 

[reer]

They also called the whole of Somalia the kingdom of Adel with its capital at Zeila. Others have called Somalis an Ethiopian race, a Black race etc. Those are just overlapping exceptional generalisations due to the vague descriptions of a less known people. The overlap in this case is that the people of Zeila to Mogadishu are one Somali ethnic group. What displaces Ajan by description or location is done so in passing commentary. When distinctions are made the distinction is that Bar Al Ajan or Cote D'Ajan is always geographically pointed by metrics like longitude, latitude, mountains, seas, rivers, borders and chorographical markers to the Hawiye area by the Latin and Arabs. They record the presence of Zaydis in the Ajan cities of Mogadishu and Brava as recent as the death of an Imam in Yemen in the 16th century, this is also mentioned by Sharif Aidarus when he discusses the Ajuran Empire.

Spoiler

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As early as the 8th century, China had established maritime connections with the port of Zayla. At that time, in the sea routes recorded by Jia Dan (730–805), it was referred to as the Kingdom of Sanlan and was considered the southernmost destination of Chinese sailing routes in the western Indian Ocean. Therefore, the center of the Kingdom of Sanmalan was Zayla.

sanmalan/sanlan = somali/somalia

Chinese (Song Dynasty) Trade Mission In Somalia (995-1081)

@Garaad diinle

www.somalispot.com