AJAN is 'Azania'?

[daljirkadahsoon]

Another short historical thread taken from 'Taariikh iyo Aasaar'

Apparently, the European explorer R.P. Leon des Avanchers wrote in 1859 that the Somalis refer to the land between Xafun and Mogadishu as 'Asaaniya' and that the Europeans transliterated this as 'Ajan'.

Is it possible that the first recorded use of this name by the Greeks was a transliteration of an ancient local name?

 

[Midas]

Another short historical thread taken from 'Taariikh iyo Aasaar'

Apparently, the European explorer R.P. Leon des Avanchers wrote in 1859 that the Somalis refer to the land between Xafun and Mogadishu as 'Asaaniya' and that the Europeans transliterated this as 'Ajan'.

Is it possible that the first recorded use of this name by the Greeks was a transliteration of an ancient local name?

View attachment 329758

That's an intresting idea. Wouldn't that mean Azania is also a somali name. It seems like there would be a connection between these and the name ajuran.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

That's an intresting idea. Wouldn't that mean Azania is also a somali name. It seems like there would be a connection between these and the name ajuran.

Impossible for it to be Ajuran because there was no Hawiye or even Samaale when the Greeks described Azania

 

[Midas]

Impossible for it to be Ajuran because there was no Hawiye or even Samaale when the Greeks described Azania

I don't mean in that sense but maybe whatever somali word that was turned into Azania was a topynom that was Eventually w somehow borrowed or turned into the word ajuran. I know this is very far out but it's still intresting to think about.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I don't mean in that sense but maybe whatever somali word that was turned into Azania was a topynom that was Eventually w somehow borrowed or turned into the word ajuran. I know this is very far out but it's still intresting to think about.

I think Ajuran is related to a word for taxation- they were famous for their taxation systems and the over-taxation and tyranny of the later Ajuran sultans led to their demise

 

[Burqad]

That's an intresting idea. Wouldn't that mean Azania is also a somali name. It seems like there would be a connection between these and the name ajuran.

Ajuuran and Ajan have nothing in common. Ajan is the Somali translation of Ajam (meaning foreign or non-Arab , remember that somalis always replace M’s with N) while Ajuuran is a nickname that comes from how heavily the House of Gareen taxed people

 

[Riftvalley]

Ajuuran and Ajan have nothing in common. Ajan is the Somali translation of Ajam (meaning foreign or non-Arab , remember that somalis always replace M’s with N) while Ajuuran is a nickname that comes from how heavily the House of Gareen taxed people

You sure Ajan isn’t a foreign corruption of the Somali word Aji? Somalis were previously divided into AJI and Ajuuraan. In the madhibaan dialect Aji means foreigner as in non madhibaan. According to the Somali qaamuus it means a noble born, thus some truth to the madhibaan myths about having a different style of governance to other Somalis in the past.

As for Azania, i think it might have been a multi ethnic stretch of land encompassing some type of early Somalis, South Cushitics and Hunter gatherers.

 

[Midas]

You sure Ajan isn’t a foreign corruption of the Somali word Aji? Somalis were previously divided into AJI and Ajuuraan. In the madhibaan dialect Aji means foreigner as in non madhibaan. According to the Somali qaamuus it means a noble born, thus some truth to the madhibaan myths about having a different style of governance to other Somalis in the past.

As for Azania, i think it might have been a multi ethnic stretch of land encompassing some type of early Somalis, South Cushitics and Hunter gatherers.

There is definitely something to the madhibaan jewish myth. Hebraic influence is very old in the horn . It's also possible that the madhibaan were a form of urbanized class of Somalis.

 

[Burqad]

You sure Ajan isn’t a foreign corruption of the Somali word Aji?

No, it’s clear that it comes from the Arabic word Ajam, which in old Arabic poetry was used to refer to Somalia along with Berberia

“The north-eastern horn of Africa was known to the ancients as “ Regio Aromatifera at present it is de scribed generally by Europeans as the “ Somali coun try the Arabs call it “ Bar ajam,” the forieg land, and its inhabitants style it proudly “ Bar-as-Somal,” the land of the Somal.”

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/185290732.pdf

the first English Somali dictionary mentions it.

Also Aji doesn’t mean noble, its the son of Dir that all northern clans descend from but madhiban (who are hw). It took the connotation of noble in the north.

 

[Riftvalley]

No, it’s clear that it comes from the Arabic word Ajam, which in old Arabic poetry was used to refer to Somalia along with Berberia

“The north-eastern horn of Africa was known to the ancients as “ Regio Aromatifera at present it is de scribed generally by Europeans as the “ Somali coun try the Arabs call it “ Bar ajam,” the forieg land, and its inhabitants style it proudly “ Bar-as-Somal,” the land of the Somal.”

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/185290732.pdf

the first English Somali dictionary mentions it.

Also Aji doesn’t mean noble, its the son of Dir that all northern clans descend from but madhiban (who are hw). It took the connotation of noble in the north.

I didn’t mean Aji was the original Somali word for noble, but a connotation can become the accepted meaning of a word if Enough people use it in such a way. Somali dictionary:

aji​

aji​

Aji: m.l.u (aji, m.dh) 1. Qof nasab wanaagsan ka soo jeeda. 2. Soomaali.​

 

[Burqad]

I didn’t mean Aji was the original Somali word for noble, but a connotation can become the accepted meaning of a word if Enough people use it in such a way. Somali dictionary:

aji​

aji​

Aji: m.l.u (aji, m.dh) 1. Qof nasab wanaagsan ka soo jeeda. 2. Soomaali.​

Yeah, but aji is the son of Dir that was the father of doombira and Hanaftire, so isaaqs daroods and dir are all aji. It gained the meaning of noble in the north because of that, the only clans that aren’t aji are madhibaan, ( maybe fiqishini too but they’re basically dhulos)

 

[Idilinaa]

Ajan is badly written Ajam by Europeans. Which is what Somalia was called on maps by our Arab neighbors as Dar al Ajam, (Land of non-Arabs), they applied this to other Non-Arab nations as well.

Travels and Researchers by Ludwig - 1860

The Somali coast from Cape Guardafui southwards , is designated by the Arabs " Dar Ajam " not " Ajan , " as the maps wrongly have it - because no Arabic is spoken in it . So , too , they designate the Abessinian and Persian coasts ; for the word ''ajam'' or ''ayam'' corresponds to the Greek ''Barbarous'' applied to every person not a Greek

As i have explained in a thread yesterday:

It's a a language that co-existed with the Somali language for centuries and Somalia was still known as ''Bar Al-Ajam'' i.e The Land of Non-Arabs . As foreign observers in the 1800s put it

Burton tells us that the Somali tribes, in Somaliland , call their land Barr el Ajam , " land of non - Arab peoples''

You also see this in poorly translated old maps of Somalia with it being called Ajan which is actually Ajam .i.e Non-Arabs.

Despite being able to speak the Arabic language Somalis throughout their history saw themselves as non-arabs and seperate but related people. Being able to speak it was in no way a contradiction nor did it prevent people from speaking their native Somali tongue.

 

[Riftvalley]

There is definitely something to the madhibaan jewish myth. Hebraic influence is very old in the horn . It's also possible that the madhibaan were a form of urbanized class of Somalis.

.

I think at some point some early Somalis adopted a partial Hunter gatherer or complete Hunter gatherer lifestyle. Others stuck to their Agro pastoral lifestyle or completely adopted a camel based life style, and thus divided themselves from the other groups who were practicing taboo cultures.

At some point in some small numbers of Yemeni blacksmiths- including some Jewish elements-crossed over the ocean divide to settle with Madhibaan/gabooye types and introduce Blacksmith craft etc.



I don’t know how this fits the DNA theory so it would be interesting to see what others think,

 

[Midas]

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View attachment 330020
I think at some point some early Somalis adopted a partial Hunter gatherer or complete Hunter gatherer lifestyle. Others stuck to their Agro pastoral lifestyle or completely adopted a camel based life style, and thus divided themselves from the other groups who were practicing taboo cultures.

At some point in some small numbers of Yemeni blacksmiths- including some Jewish elements-crossed over the ocean divide to settle with Madhibaan/gabooye types and introduce Blacksmith craft etc.



I don’t know how this fits the DNA theory so it would be interesting to see what others think,

It's definitely possible. I think while somalis have been for thr most part pastoralist/agropastorlist. There have been large changes in the state structure of somalia. I mean everybody can see those ruined towns from 12-16th century and the gal madow wars of the 17th and 18th century. Who knows how many other massive events happened that completely altered the social dynamics and state formation within the region.

 

[Idilinaa]

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View attachment 330020
I think at some point some early Somalis adopted a partial Hunter gatherer or complete Hunter gatherer lifestyle. Others stuck to their Agro pastoral lifestyle or completely adopted a camel based life style, and thus divided themselves from the other groups who were practicing taboo cultures.

At some point in some small numbers of Yemeni blacksmiths- including some Jewish elements-crossed over the ocean divide to settle with Madhibaan/gabooye types and introduce Blacksmith craft etc.



I don’t know how this fits the DNA theory so it would be interesting to see what others think,

That man in the picture probably is Eyle, it's a southern bantu/habash(freed/escaped slave) mixed Somali clan.

I don't think Somalis ever lived a fully hunter gatherer lifestyle. Because that was the dominant lifestyle in the Horn before the cushitic speakers from North Sudan/Southern Egypt replaced them, Hunter Gatherer life died out along with the groups that practiced it because of how unstainable it was.

Early proto-cushitic speakers on the other hand were wholly pastoralists:

Linguistic reconstruction of proto-cushitic subsistence lexicon reveals the early Cushitic societies to have been all pastoralists with cattle, sheep and goats, and with the addition of the donkey at an early period.

This is before cushitic speakers started to make innovations in plant agriculture, experimenting and pick up farming.

In the Horn, the domestication of at least the sorghum, daafi, and chickpeas and animal species were attributed to the Cushites, while the eleusine was related to the Omotic. However, in 1951, Nikolai Vavilov considered Somalia and the rest of the Horn as one of the world’s independent centers of agricultural development. As an agronomist, he based his view on the existence of 38 indigenous species of grain crops, vegetables, oil plants, spices, and stimulants in the Horn

The Proto-Cushitic widely knew the terms for farm, cultivate, and plow. They shared some of them with the Egyptians and in less cases with the Semitics. These Cushitics were had widely been consuming, at one place or another, sorghum, daafi (teff), barley, and wheat with knowledge of processing these cereals into a form of flour, porridge, or bread.4 Although the term Masanga for sorghum was dominant among the Cushitics, it was elsewhere called dar, har, etc. It appears that the Proto-Cushitic domesticated the daafi and were part of the domestication of the sorghum.

And so to was Southern Cushitic speakers

pastoralists were speakers of proto-Southern Cushitic languages (Ehret 2003)

Also Somalis and other Eastern Cushitic speakers were originally only cattle herders, that also domisticated donkey for transport, camels was introduced much later on and cattle still played a role after it's introduction. Somalis still kept sheep, goats and cows.

Madhidbaan/Gabooye/Tumaal/Boon etc are all occupational names, They are not clans or lineages and they don't have any outside Yemeni elements , they are from the same main Somali clans, some are from Hawiye, some from Dir, Some from Isaaq, Some from Darood etc. And they are not related to eachother lineage wise and live seperately.

Tumaal artisan groups exist even among Rendille. The knowledge of metallurgy and tool implements date far back

But what little as has yet been investigated of northeastern African iron-working terminology suggests that metallurgy in some form was already known and that the root *bir-t used for ''iron'' throughout the Horn today was borrowed into early Ethiosemitic from a Cushitic source. Nor did the early Ethiosemtic setttlers introduce any significant agricultural knowledge or practice to the regions of their settlement.

 

[Idilinaa]

It's definitely possible. I think while somalis have been for thr most part pastoralist/agropastorlist. There have been large changes in the state structure of somalia. I mean everybody can see those ruined towns from 12-16th century and the gal madow wars of the 17th and 18th century. Who knows how many other massive events happened that completely altered the social dynamics and state formation within the region.

If we go by what we have in archeology and what know about the Somali language. Somalis engaged in a mixed economic activities mainly arable agriculture, livestock herding and commerce with the coast and some fishing activities.

This goes back before even major settlements and towns even emerged really. Back to the Proto-Somali era with abundant of shared language terminology reflecting that kind of lifestyle.

 

[Midas]

If we go by what we have in archeology and what know about the Somali language. Somalis engaged in a mixed economic activities mainly arable agriculture, livestock herding and commerce with the coast and some fishing activities.

This goes back before even major settlements and towns even emerged really. Back to the Proto-Somali era with abundant of shared language terminology reflecting that kind of lifestyle.

It seems like farming has been in decline for the last couple of centuries in the northern part do to the climate. The shungwaya author hypothesized that there were river connections. In the interior for the transportation of goods during the roman era. I don't know how accurate that is. But there might have been a time when the togs were more permanent and less seasonal rivers.

 

[Idilinaa]

It seems like farming has been in decline for the last couple of centuries in the northern part do to the climate. The shungwaya author hypothesized that there were river connections. In the interior for the transportation of goods during the roman era. I don't know how accurate that is. But there might have been a time when the togs were more permanent and less seasonal rivers.

Shungwayah is basically the Juba river that Somali tribes like Tunni basically migrated down from and they are still primarily sedentary agro-pastoralist and farmers , in the river crossings. So not much have changed.

 

[Laser]

Shungwayah is basically the Juba river that Somali tribes like Tunni basically migrated down from and they are still primarily sedentary agro-pastoralist and farmers , in the river crossings. So not much have changed.

I think shungwayah was in lamu archipelago instead and tunni migrated down from juba? I thought them and their other digil kins migrated down from shabelle.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

I think shungwayah was in lamu archipelago instead and tunni migrated down from juba? I thought them and their other digil kins migrated down from shabelle.

Yes, tunni has nothing to do with shungwaya nor do they claim it in their oral history, the digil tunnis claim their ancestors originally migrated from eastern Ethiopia, following modern day juga river, just like the rest of digil tribes , they were then later on joined by groups from other tribes over the centuries such as garre, cawrmale, hawiye & other Digils .