Adeni Arabic loanwords in Northern Somali

[Hamzza]

And those harti seafarers established harti colonies in distant lands, e.g oman and eritrea.

 

[Shimbiris]

You are rigt bro, reer bari are the people of the sea .
According to british explorer mills who visited the majerten coat in 1871, there was 20 or so buggalows(large boats) which belonged to the ports of bender ziada, bender kassim, qandala, bender murcanyo and caluula and countless of sambuukhs.

Could you link me that source, walaal? Would like to add it to the collection. Preparing more posts for that sewn boats thread.

 

[Idilinaa]

you have a point. but to alot of somalis the "reer waqooyi" is a codeword for isaaq. its like saying someone is "reer bari" or "reer gedo" are codewords for certain clans. laakiin isaaq have some other arabic loanwords. madaar vs ayraboor/garoon diyaarado. malcaqad vs qaado. casiir/sharaab vs cabitaan/biyo. from the way "reer waqooyi" talk vs eg mogadishu i noticex there is a difference in arabic loanwords but its not easy to spot.

Northern Somali when Somalis say it is usually Waaqoyi and it's never a code word for Isaaq as far as i am aware. They live with other qabils like Dir and Daroods, share land with them, intermarry so on. So it wouldn't even make sense to say that. They don't speak a different speech from them either and it is not something you can even pick out.

Bari and Waaqoyi are directions.

But academically when they say Northern Somali, if you read this online, it doesn't specifically refer to either Bari or Waaqoyi.

 

[reer]

I'm a saqajaan. I always ask where someone is from as code for what qabiil they're of. I need to stop, I know. Soomaali waa Soomaali.

kkk

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Northern Somali when Somalis say it is usually Waaqoyi and it's never a code word for Isaaq as far as i am aware. They live with other qabils like Dir and Daroods, share land with them, intermarry so on. So it wouldn't even make sense to say that. They don't speak a different speech from them either and it is not something you can even pick out.

But academically when they say Northern Somali, if you read this online, it doesn't specifically refer to either Bari or Waaqoyi.

bro for alot of konfurians reer waqooyi is a code word for isaaq. the darods that border isaaq have their accent influenced by isaaqs. the rest dont. when a konfurian describes someone as reer waqooyi its a codename.

 

[Shimbiris]

kkk

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bro for alot of konfurians reer waqooyi is a code word for isaaq. the darods that border isaaq have their accent influenced by isaaqs. the rest dont. when a konfurian describes someone as reer waqooyi its a codename.

I think it's less influence and more just a dialect continuum. Dialects looking more similar the more geographically neighboring you are.

 

[Idilinaa]

kkk

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bro for alot of konfurians reer waqooyi is a code word for isaaq. the darods that border isaaq have their accent influenced by isaaqs. the rest dont. when a konfurian describes someone as reer waqooyi its a codename.

Maybe you get that impression from reading forum posters, but it is not a codeword for any clan when the average everyday Somalis use it. Like i explained it wouldn't make sense and there is no difference in accents between Isaaqs that live with Daroods or other clans.

Koonfuur, Bari, Galbeed and Waaqoyi are directions.

 

[reer]

I think it's less influence and more just a dialect continuum. Dialects looking more similar the more geographically neighboring you are.

yes iyo d no. waa mix of qabiil and geography.

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[Idilinaa]

It's more like there's Af-Maxaa then within it there is North-Somali which means what's spoken by the Dir, Isaaq and Darood; then you have Benadiri/Coastal Somali which has historically been spoken by Hawiyes and groups like the Ajuuraan, though this can vary by region. For example, if I'm not mistaken, Hawiyes in the far west of Galbeed or groups like the Fiqishini in the north just sound like their neighbors. North-Somali itself can further be divided into the "Darood group" and the Northwest dialects or what some linguists call North-Somali proper which is spoken by Dirs and Isaaqs. This last one is what Somalis are talking about when they picture the way reer Woqooyi speak. But it's a little arbitrary. The more west you go from eastern parts of Bari or Nugaal the more the folks, Darood or otherwise, start to sound more and more like reer Woqooyi.

But you are correct, I've never heard of there being some notable difference in Arabic loanwords across the dialects. More than anything, what I've noticed is that reer magaals generally throw more Arabic and overall foreign words into their speech than reer miyi. This is true regardless of region across Somaliweyn. If you want to hear authentic Somali go deep into the hinterland and talk to some nomads or farmers. This is a trope among Arabs as well. That the Bedouin hold the most authentic and "pure" speech. Was the case even in the Prophet's (SAW) time.

I think this Rural V Urban divide limited the Arabic influences and loanwords in Somali, the language maintained far more it's integrity. Also back in the day it used to be sometimes common for Urban ones to send their kids out to be amongst rural relatives for a short period to learn purer more eloquent form of Somali speech and they still do this some extant nowadays as well dropping their kids into Miyi.

The fact that clans intermingling a lot of didn't create much difference between peoples speech, certaintly not with loanwords. If there was any noticible difference in loanwords different clans spoke , linguists studying the Somali languge would have pointed that out and it would be very noticeable.

 

[reer]

Maybe you get that impression from reading forum posters, but it is not a codeword for any clan when the average everyday Somalis use it. Like i explained it wouldn't make sense and there is no difference in accents between Isaaqs that live with Daroods or other clans.

Koonfuur, Bari, Galbeed and Waaqoyi are directions.

if you ant imma tag a konfurian @Woke1.4rm.Shibis if i said to him hebel iyo hebel waa reer waqooyi wuu garanayaa which qabiil aan ka hadlayo. he aint thinking about las anod.

 

[Idilinaa]

if you ant imma tag a konfurian @Woke1.4rm.Shibis if i said to him hebel iyo hebel waa reer waqooyi wuu garanayaa which qabiil aan ka hadlayo. he aint thinking about las anod.

Thats not always the case tbh, i have heard people use reer Waaqoyi and was referring to someone from the Gadabursi clans for example.

 

[Shimbiris]

if you ant imma tag a konfurian @Woke1.4rm.Shibis if i said to him hebel iyo hebel waa reer waqooyi wuu garanayaa which qabiil aan ka hadlayo. he aint thinking about las anod.

I'll admit that even outside Somspot I've seen many Somalis use reer Woqooyi as code for Isaaqs.

 

[Som]

dariishad is from the arabic word dariisha.

Are you sure about this? I remember reading from a history book that the elite of the Adal Sultanate legitimately mostly spoke Arabic, while this wasn't the case in any of the other Somali sultanates.

Arabic spread in non-Arab regions due to the working class mimicking the elite. That's how Arab elites managed to change the language of North Africa despite being heavily outnumbered. Maybe a similar trend happened in Adal but didn't result in language shift.

While browsing some papers on Oromo, I also saw it being mentioned that the East Oromo dialect near Harar contains significantly more Arabic loanwords than the other Oromo dialects.

The Adal elites probably spoke arabic but there's no evidence to say it was their main or native language. It's likely they used Arabic as a written language for business, politics and legal issues. In Somalia ethnic Arabs never ruled much (except joint somali-arab dinasties in xamar) and never had a sizable population. When they mixed with us they adopted our language and customs, we influenced Arab immigrants in Somalia more than they influenced us.
Somalis and Arabs had relationship based on trade, protection of common interests, shariif knowledge etc while in northafrica on the other hand the relationship between Berbers and Arabs was conquered VS conquerors

 

[Som]

I'll admit that even outside Somspot I've seen many Somalis use reer Woqooyi as code for Isaaqs.

It's a code word for Lander which is associated with Isaaqs who are the most known and representative northeners who also always brag about being northener. I think though that most people would include Daroods in Somaliland in the Reer waqooyi definition

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

There's no perhaps about it, walaal. I just showed you sources and I've seen many others that point out the same as those; that Hartis traded with Aden and Mocha very extensively and there are several accounts of them settling there in many cases. And I mean no offense but I do trust gaalo more in this respect as they don't distinguish us as a people whereas Somalis will always upsell their own tribe more than others. Ironically, Somali is Somali to some random Brit. They're not going to exaggerate or upsell any particular tribe because they don't care.

It also seems apparent that for at least a good while in the 1800s Harti subtribes like the Warsangeli and Majeerteen were more dominant in regards to seafaring and trafficking to Yemen themselves than Isaaqs but it is possible that Isaaqs settled there more. One does certainly notice a lot of Isaaqs were in Aden from the historical records. I did notice that when Somali traders' tribal origins were mentioned in Aden it was often Isaaqs. Mind you, I think this became more the case in the 1900s.

And you are correct in regards to Berbera. It was the premier singular port in the 1800s of the north. The annual Berbera fair was no joke but when put together the whole northeast was no joke either. The amounts they were exporting to Aden were so exorbitant that it caused clan migrations, walaal. That's just how overwhelmed the nomads became for a time with the large herds required to maintain shipping to Yemen and the Brits point out the main export points were Aden and Mocha, especially the former.

You might have traded with Aden and Al-Mokha but you weren't the principal people moving there nor were you the principal traders.NE Somalia could never dominate since they don't have much to offer.Saylac,Bulhar and Berbera had all of SL,K5 and Oromia/Shewa trading with us and would export slaves,coffee,livestock and even ostrich feathers lol

 

[reer]

You might have traded with Aden and Al-Mokha but you weren't the principal people moving there nor were you the principal traders.NE Somalia could never dominate since they don't have much to offer.Saylac,Bulhar and Berbera had all of SL,K5 and Oromia/Shewa trading with us and would export slaves,coffee,livestock and even ostrich feathers lol

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berbera waxay ahaan jirtay the undisputed most important somali dekad.

 

[Woke1.4rm.Shibis]

if you ant imma tag a konfurian @Woke1.4rm.Shibis if i said to him hebel iyo hebel waa reer waqooyi wuu garanayaa which qabiil aan ka hadlayo. he aint thinking about las anod.

I thought that was common thing through out Somalia . Most koonfurians dont have much knowledge of the clan breakdown of waaqoyi tbh .

 

[Idilinaa]

The Adal elites probably spoke arabic but there's no evidence to say it was their main or native language. It's likely they used Arabic as a written language for business, politics and legal issues. In Somalia ethnic Arabs never ruled much (except joint somali-arab dinasties in xamar) and never had a sizable population. When they mixed with us they adopted our language and customs, we influenced Arab immigrants in Somalia more than they influenced us.
Somalis and Arabs had relationship based on trade, protection of common interests, shariif knowledge etc while in northafrica on the other hand the relationship between Berbers and Arabs was conquered VS conquerors

There is really no evidence for that because the migrants to Xamar did not come from a single source (Arab) but were simply merchants, traders, scholars etc of diverse backgrounds a bulk of which seems to be South Asian/Desi and they were not 1 single unifying group.

The rest of your arguments sounds particularly interesting because it is similar to something i read in Mohamed Nuuh paper:

https://escholarship.org/content/qt450167x3/qt450167x3_noSplash_665052b57816fbda4463f9ed1bd2bf91.pdf?t=mnip12

These immigrants were numerically small and their linguistic
impact was insignificant. As the coastal dialect remained Somali, this linguistic evidence suggests that the core of the population in those coastal towns were Somali. This interaction produced a social milieuin which the immigrants were absorbed linguistically even though... with some elements of their culture being adopted. By the twelfth century A.D., the whole of the northern coast had adopted Islam, as the Arab historian Yaqut claims, there by laying the basis for the expansion of Islam into the interior of Somalia [Huntingford 1955:19].

Aside from them being numerically small , this also could be attributed to the fact that the immigrants were not a single unifying linguistic group and were of diverse background.

Are you sure about this? I remember reading from a history book that the elite of the Adal Sultanate legitimately mostly spoke Arabic, while this wasn't the case in any of the other Somali sultanates.

Arabic spread in non-Arab regions due to the working class mimicking the elite. That's how Arab elites managed to change the language of North Africa despite being heavily outnumbered. Maybe a similar trend happened in Adal but didn't result in language shift.

While browsing some papers on Oromo, I also saw it being mentioned that the East Oromo dialect near Harar contains significantly more Arabic loanwords than the other Oromo dialects.

The Urban Somalis in the interior towns and in the coastal towns knew how to speak Arabic and wrote in it. Perhaps why Oromo dialect near Harar have higher number of Arabic loanwords. Even in Majerteen Sultanate coastal towns for example they could speak, read and write Arabic.

But this didn't mean it was their native language or it was used for everyday communication. They spoke Somali to converse with each other and even Futuh this was indicated a number of times with the ''The Language of the Muslims'' that they spoke a different language than Arabic.

But you are right about Arabic language elite trend , this is historically consistent.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

I thought that was common thing through out Somalia . Most koonfurians dont have much knowledge of the clan breakdown of waaqoyi tbh .

It is the same the other way around.We just call anyone even sometimes Puntlanders (especially since a lot of them speak with xamarawi accent) are called reer xamar.

 

[Woke1.4rm.Shibis]

It is the same the other way around.We just call anyone even sometimes Puntlanders (especially since a lot of them speak with xamarawi accent) are called reer xamar.

They dont even have xamar accent tho .
I blame it on lack of education on both south and north regions.
Is like when Most Somalis call every D&M or ppl who speak af maay elaay when elaay is just a subclan of mirifley .

 

[Hamzza]

You might have traded with Aden and Al-Mokha but you weren't the principal people moving there nor were you the principal traders.NE Somalia could never dominate since they don't have much to offer.Saylac,Bulhar and Berbera had all of SL,K5 and Oromia/Shewa trading with us and would export slaves,coffee,livestock and even ostrich feathers lol

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Banians dominated the trade of berbera, it was their boats that transported harar goods to arabia and india.