A study of DECENTRALIZED political structure for Somalia

[wonyluvr]

That one clan dominates this forum though so they will always have more voices. If you ask me which individuals have the most cuqdad he’s top flight though so he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

He doesn’t have the most cuqdad you should read his posts and compare them to other people who support genocide against other Somalis and are grateful that genocide has taken place

 

[Samatar03]

He doesn’t have the most cuqdad you should read his posts and compare them to other people who support genocide against other Somalis and are grateful that genocide has taken place

I didn’t say he has the most, but he’s def up there. Look at the thread he maintains on kicking out HG from dabdamiska

 

[wonyluvr]

I didn’t say he has the most, but he’s def up there. Look at the thread he maintains on kicking out HG from dabdamiska

Yeah I’ve seen that but it’s within the clan family so ehhh

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

He doesn’t have the most cuqdad you should read his posts and compare them to other people who support genocide against other Somalis and are grateful that genocide has taken place

Read this exchange between me and @Jungle where I argue in favor of IDPs permanently living in Banadir having the right to vote, and he argues for their displacement and cleansing from Banadir instead. @Jungle wants to take away the right to vote from 1.5 million, mostly D&M, IDPs in order to preserve Hawiye hegemony. Keep in mind the Puntland gave all IDPs from koonfur the right to vote in its elections.
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...-in-banadir-right-to-vote.158277/post-3846819

ps. You should not judge MJ by the same metric you judge Hawiye on the question of qabil. We may border each other, but our cultures are fairly different on this topic. MJ have more in common with Harti woqoyie, idoor and Ogaden on the question of qabil rather than Hawiye. Apples and oranges.

 

[Jungle]

Read this exchange between me and @Jungle where I argue in favor of IDPs permanently living in Banadir having the right to vote, and he argues for their displacement and cleansing from Banadir instead. @Jungle wants to take away the right to vote from 1.5 million, mostly D&M, IDPs in order to preserve Hawiye hegemony. Keep in mind the Puntland gave all IDPs from koonfur the right to vote in its elections.
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...-in-banadir-right-to-vote.158277/post-3846819

ps. You should not judge MJ by the same metric you judge Hawiye on the question of qabil. We may border each other, but our cultures are fairly different on this topic. MJ have more in common with Harti woqoyie, idoor and Ogaden on the question of qabil rather than Hawiye. Apples and oranges.

How many times have you brought up what I said about those idps sxb? Internally displaced persons from bay and bakool should not and will not be allowed to vote in any elections regarding Banaadir. D&M tax payers & property/land owners should be able to vote. I don't see anything wrong with this and its hardly comparable to the vile stuff said on here is it?

 

[wonyluvr]

Read this exchange between me and @Jungle where I argue in favor of IDPs permanently living in Banadir having the right to vote, and he argues for their displacement and cleansing from Banadir instead. @Jungle wants to take away the right to vote from 1.5 million, mostly D&M, IDPs in order to preserve Hawiye hegemony. Keep in mind the Puntland gave all IDPs from koonfur the right to vote in its elections.
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...-in-banadir-right-to-vote.158277/post-3846819

ps. You should not judge MJ by the same metric you judge Hawiye on the question of qabil. We may border each other, but our cultures are fairly different on this topic. MJ have more in common with Harti woqoyie, idoor and Ogaden on the question of qabil rather than Hawiye. Apples and oranges.

I know he wants to kick IDPout of Xamar I’m against that they have nowhere else to go.

HSM not Abgaal we have no say in this.I feel bad for them they have nowhere else to go I don’t find any of this funny

I was pointing out the fact that there are people on here how find the deaths of innocent people funny and that they deserve it.Now I don’t know what you mean by cultures are fairly different on this topic I don’t get what that means

.Everyone should have a right to vote I’m all for equality

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

Hawiye wants centralism and not cause their the capital as non hawiye assume. I understand hawiye dynamics since I'm half hawiye, the reason is they can't stand on their own, they want to hide their nakedness under a collective Somali identity, if you need proof look at GM and HS and it's status in the federation, this is why hawiye is pro Somalia.

Your input on the Hawiye ethnic group is much appreciated. Most of us including myself have zero Hawiye relatives. We only read the news of the isbaaros and their allergic reactions to the rule of law and don't know much abiut them

 

[wonyluvr]

Your input on the Hawiye ethnic group is much appreciated. Most of us including myself have zero Hawiye relatives. We only read the news of the isbaaros and their allergic reactions to the rule of law and don't know much abiut them

You are painfully unfunny to the point it’s laughable

 

[El Nino]

A functioning clan confederacy is better than what we have back home, these autonomous states are weak individually, can manipulated by outside forces and are not self-sufficient.

Last thing you listed is why no clan state is getting independence any time soon. SL have ”tried” for 30 years but they don’t have anything to offer to the world that would make their independence worthwhile.

No resource extraction is done in all of somaliweyn. We have only the strategic location but Jabuuti has filled the void for it. No independence by giving away land for military

I remember when @AbdiFreedom said Somalia is held together because nobody wants 5 different begging bowls kkkk. Harsh but true.

Clan conferedation could work if there is agreed taxation on exports, imports and income. Same currency and foreign policy. Also the president and prime ministers are like figureheads. Sharia as the basis of law and we are good to go.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

You are painfully unfunny to the point it’s laughable

Adeer stay at the generals with the other teens.

 

[wonyluvr]

Adeer stay at the generals with the other teens.

don’t adeer me im not falling for it

 

[NidarNidar]

Last thing you listed is why no clan state is getting independence any time soon. SL have ”tried” for 30 years but they don’t have anything to offer to the world that would make their independence worthwhile.

No resource extraction is done in all of somaliweyn. We have only the strategic location but Jabuuti has filled the void for it. No independence by giving away land for military

I remember when @AbdiFreedom said Somalia is held together because nobody wants 5 different begging bowls kkkk. Harsh but true.

Clan conferedation could work if there is agreed taxation on exports, imports and income. Same currency and foreign policy. Also the president and prime ministers are like figureheads. Sharia as the basis of law and we are good to go.

No resource extraction is a blessing, I believe the best way would be to do something like the UAE.

"The UAE's federal structure includes a Supreme Council (comprising the Rulers of each Emirate), a Council of Ministers and a Federal National Council. Each Emirate is governed by its own Ruler, with its own local government, courts and police forces."

 

[Idilinaa]

Basically this book is to make sure a strong central government never arises in Somalia.

Spoke about a unitary decentralized option being the best choice in a different thread in relation to Yemen and Somalia. You can have a strong unitary centralized government in Somalia while also having some form of decentralization in delegation of local governance in form of provinces and municipalities.

This is what Oman our neighbor has done.

Somalia and Yemen should mimic the decentralized approach of Oman.

Oman's governments structure is divided into a two tier decentralized structure of Governorates and Wilayats , under the Central State. These municipalities/local governments create higher efficiency, legitimacy and inclusion.
Power and Process: Decentralisation in Oman

Before the collapse in the 1990s, there was signs that Somalia was heading in the same direction as there was constant talks and drafting of decentralized options for Somalis since the 1960s:

It would have most likely devolved into this vision, if left uninterrupted. Kacaanka that took power in the 1970s was more geared towards taking back control from the neo-colonialists and revolutionizing policies to benefit the citizens than over-centralizing the state in the long run. The Historical Evolution of the Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party

This discussion and recommendation of decentralization continued in the first 10 years after the collapse until it was curtailed by foreign imperial entities, super imposing their own centralized options.

I made this thread to highlight the example that Oman offers as a development model and potential for both countries.

The revolutionary trajectory that was supposed to succeed in Yemen and Somalia in the 1960-70s , is a legacy that succeeded in Oman today. Both the socialist egalitarian re-distributive reforms and the vision of a functioning decentralized local governance.

Even what i mentioned on page 1 about a unitary decentralized system was also on the table for Yemen since the 1960s not just for Somalia urged by it's population.

Decentralization in Yemen​

The chapter explores a paradox – the apparent impossibility of decentralization in a country where orography, a long history of political fragmentation, and a vulnerable central state authority would appear naturally to favor decentralized authority. Through a historical exploration of governance in different parts of Yemen since 1960, it reveals longstanding demands for decentralized governance, as well as the existence of a strong society capable of formulating and pressuring the central authority to implement decentralization reforms.

Although some failed attempts have been made. Decentralization can only happen successfully through the prerequisite of a strong united central state and devolve from there which can only be achieved through a revolution in most cases. It can never be brought forward through a weak fragmented government. Federalism also wont make sense for either of them as a decentralization option.

 

[Idilinaa]

https://arcadia.sba.uniroma3.it/bitstream/2307/6143/1/20_A%20study%20of%20decentralised%20political%20structures%20for%20Somalia.pdf

I read it. The assumptions I'M Lewis is taking in this study is particularly unfounded like ''Uncentralized Somali Legacy'' kulaha, throughout the middle ages 900-1600 large parts of Somalia from west to north to south was governed under a highly centralized and bureaucratic system. And it was in large parts the reason for it's stability and development. Under those unitary governments, they appointed governors and functionaries over different districts and regions.

That legacy of that centralized structure survived amongst the Eastern Harti's that continued to rule most of the Northern-Eastern region after the collapse of other regions in the modern period and can also be seen in the later successful formation of Hobyo sultanate that ruled most of central part of Somalia in late 1800s and early 1900s

Somalis were not structured around only individualized clan units in the years leading up to the colonial era. They were also organized in to city states , who's clan's and populations were of diverse origins and shared power collectively together under a titular leadership and lived in religious agricultural communities called jaamaacad, where clan identity was subordinated to other aspects of belonging, including religious identity and residence. In the mixed agriculture communities between the rivers, too, clanship was just one element of collective identity and social organization and similarly for the Western fertile uplands. As well as being organized around and led under Tariqas (Sufi Orders).

What's ironic also is that the most centralized systems and structures that survived in Somalia post medieval collapse in the 1600-1900s were all in the most nomadic arid regions of Somalia. The most enduring ones to.

It's not difficult to form and maintain a centralized leadership over pastoralists or nomads ( even though a good number of Somalis were also sedentary depending on the location ). All you do is control their wells and grazing grounds and incorporate them into a exchange system. Which is what the central states of the past did.

What impedes Somalia today is a colonial legacy that divived people, historical amnesia, and chronic foreign imperialism and meddling. Not an ''Uncentralized legacy''

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

I know he wants to kick IDPout of Xamar I’m against that they have nowhere else to go.

I was pointing out the fact that there are people on here how find the deaths of innocent people funny and that they deserve it.Now I don’t know what you mean by cultures are fairly different on this topic I don’t get what that means

.Everyone should have a right to vote I’m all for equality

You seem unable/unwilling to follow my argument. No point in talking further.

 

[wonyluvr]

You seem unable/unwilling to follow my argument. No point in talking further.

All I said was he does not have the most cuqdad on here I saw people promoting genocide.I don’t agree with most of his views anyways i just said what I was thinking

 

[Zak12]

It should be mentioned that the arms embargo has also affected centralization for a while too although that is gone now. Are there still any sanctions placed on Somalia?

 

[Jungle]

All I said was he does not have the most cuqdad on here I saw people promoting genocide.I don’t agree with most of his views anyways i just said what I was thinking

Lol that man talking about you unwilling to follow my argument which is basically bash jungle with me. He quoted a previous thread with my views which you should strongly oppose he thinks

@Thegoodshepherd waxaaga xoog miyaa sxb? Gabadha ma kaa yeelin waxaad sheegesid eboow. Jungle cuqdad ayu qaba iyo ma qabo aad isku haysataan adiga iyo gabar aad dhalikartid

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[wonyluvr]

Lol that man talking about you unwilling to follow my argument which is basically bash jungle with me. He quoted a previous thread with my views which you should strongly oppose he thinks

@Thegoodshepherd waxaaga xoog miyaa sxb? Gabadha ma kaa yeelin waxaad sheegesid eboow. Jungle cuqdad ayu qaba iyo ma qabo aad isku haysataan adiga iyo gabar aad dhalikartid

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You should calm down on the kicking people out thing .I’ll observe the Politics section it’s quite amusing

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

@Jungle @Wonyluvr one of the main reasons why Somalia is unable to come to a common understanding on where to go from here is the unwillingness of those south of Galkacyo to accept qabil as a fundemental building block of Somali politics.

This leads to massive cognitive dissonance. Somalis south of Galkacyo are just as qabil motivated as those north of Galkacyo, but are willing to lie, obfuscate and practice nifaaq rather than admit this.

There is no shame in being for your qabil and working to defeat your enemy. Hawiye and Isaaq are my enemies and I want to defeat them. I will always admit this. Good luck getting anyone south of Galkacyo to be this honest.