A somali family are celebrating Christmas and they also have a dog

[Journey.]

روى البخاري (2322 ) عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ :
( مَنْ أَمْسَكَ كَلْبًا فَإِنَّهُ يَنْقُصُ كُلَّ يَوْمٍ مِنْ عَمَلِهِ قِيرَاطٌ إِلا كَلْبَ حَرْثٍ أَوْ مَاشِيَةٍ ) .

He who gets a dog has his good deeds diminished by a qirat or carat exept for pastoralism and
and agriculture.

https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/69777/%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%AB%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%B1%D8%B9

حكم اقتناء الكلاب وادعاء طهارتها بالتغسيل

الجواب: ثبت عن رسول الله عليه الصلاة والسلام أنه قال: من اقتنى كلباً إلا كلب صيد أو ماشية أو

binbaz.org.sa

Same hadith:

 

[Shimbiris]

روى البخاري (2322 ) عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ :
( مَنْ أَمْسَكَ كَلْبًا فَإِنَّهُ يَنْقُصُ كُلَّ يَوْمٍ مِنْ عَمَلِهِ قِيرَاطٌ إِلا كَلْبَ حَرْثٍ أَوْ مَاشِيَةٍ ) .

He who gets a dog has his good deeds diminished by a qirat or carat exept for pastoralism and
and agriculture.

https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/69777/%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%AB%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%B1%D8%B9

حكم اقتناء الكلاب وادعاء طهارتها بالتغسيل

الجواب: ثبت عن رسول الله عليه الصلاة والسلام أنه قال: من اقتنى كلباً إلا كلب صيد أو ماشية أو

binbaz.org.sa

My mother never liked the concept of home pets on personal principle alone. On our land in Boosaaso we had cats and she semi kept pigeons but none were allowed indoors but instead we'd just feed them out on our garden, play with them and leave them be to wander the outside world and come back for free meals whenever they wanted. She always told me it was a cruel thing to bring an animal into a household and force "human life" on them. No one could ever convince her they are not happier free and among their own kind.

 

[Garaad diinle]

My mother never liked the concept of home pets on personal principle alone. On our land in Boosaaso we had cats and she semi kept pigeons but none were allowed indoors but instead we'd just feed them out on our garden, play with them and leave them be to wander the outside world and come back for free meals whenever they wanted. She always told me it was a cruel thing to bring an animal into a household and force "human life" on them. No one could ever convince her they are not happier free and among their own kind.

As children we use to chase around wild cats and sneak them into the house getting scolded
every time. We always get pleasure from feeding animals such as birds and getting some ajar with it.

 

[Journey.]

My mother never liked the concept of home pets on personal principle alone. On our land in Boosaaso we had cats and she semi kept pigeons but none were allowed indoors but instead we'd just feed them out on our garden, play with them and leave them be to wander the outside world and come back for free meals whenever they wanted. She always told me it was a cruel thing to bring an animal into a household and force "human life" on them. No one could ever convince her they are not happier free and among their own kind.

I agree with her. Keeping birds in cages is especially cruel. They have wings and the sky is their home.

 

[Danakiil]

You niggas do know that your families kept dogs right? Like 100 years ago dogs were as common as camels for Somali nomads. All the wild dogs you see running around cities like Hargeisa are the decedent's of those domesticated dog breeds Somalis used to have before the urban retards made it a taboo.

 

[Danakiil]

Dogs are actually, funnily enough, an original part of our culture. They seem to have been lost and forgotten rapidly after the 1800s or early 1900s due to the mentality in the magaalo spreading throughout the country in time:



But during the 1800s it seems most nomadic Somali and even some reer Tuulo had dogs so much so that you could tell they were nearby through the sound of barking:











Source: First Footsteps in East Africa by Richard Burton. He travelled across much of the north all the way to Harar and many times was a guest to different local leaders, meeting everything from various different Daroods, Isaaqs, Dirs and even Hawiyes so it's interesting how he describes the presence of dogs like this as a normal part of Somali culture and not isolated to one tribe.

There is also the fact that dogs were part of the original Cushitic cultural package when our ancestors began migrating from Sudan as early as 3000 BCE. They brought cattle, goats, sheep, donkeys and dogs with them and display as much in several of their cave paintings:

Sada Mire interviewed by CNN: ‘First-aid’ needed for 5,000-year-old Somali cave paintings | Sada Mire

www.sadamire.com

Arabians were similarly laden with dogs historically. They even have a specific and currently well-known breed the Bedouin used to be quite affectionate toward to the point of letting them into their tents:



But with them as well the Reer Magaal (Xadhar) mentality toward them, that I think grew more extreme since movements like that of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, spread and became more uniform. Nowhere is it stated they are xaraan, saaxiib. It's just their saliva and getting it on you requiring you redo your ablution before praying. The only mention of dogs in the Qur'an itself, from what I remember, is like one story that was actually positive.



They are good, loyal and useful beasts especially for one on a farm/ranch. Somalis need to let this absurd fear and hatred of them go, I reckon.

Dammit the bird man beat me again

 

[Shimbiris]

Dammit the bird man beat me again

Brrr, nigga. Brrrrr.

 

[Shimbiris]

You niggas do know that your families kept dogs right? Like 100 years ago dogs were as common as camels for Somali nomads. All the wild dogs you see running around cities like Hargeisa are the decedent's of those domesticated dog breeds Somalis used to have before the urban retards made it a taboo.

I think the dogs you see around Somalia may very well be very mixed with other breeds that probably stowed away on ships, came overland from the rest of the Horn and were in some cases left by gaalo and affluent Somalis who may have brought foreign breeds. DNA tests and ancient DNA sampling of our ancient or even just early modern dogs should elucidate things better. That being said, I find it very interesting that Burton describes Somalis' dogs at one point as "bushy tailed Pariahs" and I think more than once as bushy tailed because that is basically what I've noticed a lot of strays in Somalia look like:

They also often have this curved upward tail and a body type that reminds me of native domestic dogs around the rest of East Africa:

I think it's quite possible the native dog's blood has largely survived. They certainly seem hardy and adapted to the aridity and heat of places like the north. Somali animals are often very hardy. Everything from our horses to our cattle, goats, sheep and cattle are often prized for being good producers on very little feed and water compared to other breeds. The "Boran" type cattle by way of our Oromo cousins has become a phenom in African cattle circles:



Whilst the Somali sheep ("Blackhead Persian") is somewhat similarly well-prized as well.

 

[NordicSomali]

They wrong for doin that but why u care, did u pray ur 5 daily prayers worry about urself

Somalis are always obsessed about what other Somalis are doing

 

[Qofwalan]

somali american dhaqan

 

[Saciid]

I think the dogs you see around Somalia may very well be very mixed with other breeds that probably stowed away on ships, came overland from the rest of the Horn and were in some cases left by gaalo and affluent Somalis who may have brought foreign breeds. DNA tests and ancient DNA sampling of our ancient or even just early modern dogs should elucidate things better. That being said, I find it very interesting that Burton describes Somalis' dogs at one point as "bushy tailed Pariahs" and I think more than once as bushy tailed because that is basically what I've noticed a lot of strays in Somalia look like:

They also often have this curved upward tail and a body type that reminds me of native domestic dogs around the rest of East Africa:

I think it's quite possible the native dog's blood has largely survived. They certainly seem hardy and adapted to the aridity and heat of places like the north. Somali animals are often very hardy. Everything from our horses to our cattle, goats, sheep and cattle are often prized for being good producers on very little feed and water compared to other breeds. The "Boran" type cattle by way of our Oromo cousins has become a phenom in African cattle circles:



Whilst the Somali sheep ("Blackhead Persian") is somewhat similarly well-prized as well.

The Italians in the report ab Majeerteen Sultanate praised its horses for the same thing

 

[Saciid]

Dogs are actually, funnily enough, an original part of our culture. They seem to have been lost and forgotten rapidly after the 1800s or early 1900s due to the mentality in the magaalo spreading throughout the country in time:



But during the 1800s it seems most nomadic Somali and even some reer Tuulo had dogs so much so that you could tell they were nearby through the sound of barking:











Source: First Footsteps in East Africa by Richard Burton. He travelled across much of the north all the way to Harar and many times was a guest to different local leaders, meeting everything from various different Daroods, Isaaqs, Dirs and even Hawiyes so it's interesting how he describes the presence of dogs like this as a normal part of Somali culture and not isolated to one tribe.

There is also the fact that dogs were part of the original Cushitic cultural package when our ancestors began migrating from Sudan as early as 3000 BCE. They brought cattle, goats, sheep, donkeys and dogs with them and display as much in several of their cave paintings:

Sada Mire interviewed by CNN: ‘First-aid’ needed for 5,000-year-old Somali cave paintings | Sada Mire

www.sadamire.com

Arabians were similarly laden with dogs historically. They even have a specific and currently well-known breed the Bedouin used to be quite affectionate toward to the point of letting them into their tents:



But with them as well the Reer Magaal (Xadhar) mentality toward them, that I think grew more extreme since movements like that of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, spread and became more uniform. Nowhere is it stated they are xaraan, saaxiib. It's just their saliva and getting it on you requiring you redo your ablution before praying. The only mention of dogs in the Qur'an itself, from what I remember, is like one story that was actually positive.



They are good, loyal and useful beasts especially for one on a farm/ranch. Somalis need to let this absurd fear and hatred of them go, I reckon.

Disagree, there's no known positive memtions of them, only negative. A "lowcast" clan are known as Eyle and the one of the bad characteristics is the use of dogs. The idea that all Somalis just completely switched on dogs is a bit far fetched

U overestimate old Reer Magaal influences on Somalo culture, especially considering that they were a extreme minority and most of urban culture is rather new.

 

[Shimbiris]

U overestimate old Reer Magaal influences on Somalo culture, especially considering that they were a extreme minority and most of urban culture is rather new.

Walaal, the early modern era was a time of destitution and greater aridity in the north. The archaeology clearly shows that even in Bari there were bigger and more settlements even in the hinterland during the late Middle Ages and of course the way towns like Saylac and Berbera are seemingly described earlier doesn't jibe with how small they are in the early modern era. Reer Magaal culture is nothing new at all on the Somali coast. Going off the Greeks and archaeology, it's been around for at least 2,000-2,300 years.

But sure, like anywhere in the world settled townsfolk were always quite the minority but it's nothing shocking that their culture would so widely influence everyone. Somalis very religiously changed in the last 50-100 years and have slowly become more tuulo-ized and urbanized like everyone else on Earth. Plus, the exact same phenomena occurred on the other side of the Gulf with the Arabs whose nomads and ruralites (90%+ of the population) kept dogs but the Xadhar were like Reer Magaal Somalis and spoke against them which slowly but surely led to Arabs being less pro-dog as they became more settled.

Disagree, there's no known positive memtions of them, only negative. A "lowcast" clan are known as Eyle and the one of the bad characteristics is the use of dogs. The idea that all Somalis just completely switched on dogs is a bit far fetched

Yes, the negative talk of them is very much the case in the last 50-100 years but that clearly doesn't seem the case before that where they'd demand a blood price for killing one. Also, I am sorry but there is literally no arguing with what Burton wrote unless you want me to put on a tin foil hat and believe he made all that up as some conspiracy for what? Why? He travelled everywhere across the north, met all 4 major tribes, went all the way to Harar and plainly states nomadic and rural Somalis have dogs and over and over again, and when he is in their villages and nomadic camps dogs are a fixture. It fits with the archaeology too. If you can debunk this feel free but otherwise you are literally arguing with data, walaal.

 

[Saciid]

Walaal, the early modern era was a time of destitution and greater aridity in the north. The archaeology clearly shows that even in Bari there were bigger settlements even in the hinterland during the late Middle Ages and of course the way towns like Saylac and Berbera are seemingly described earlier doesn't jibe with how small they are in the early modern era. Reer Magaal culture is nothing new at all on the Somali coast. Going off the Greeks and archaeology, it's been around for at least 2,000-2,300 years.

But sure, like anywhere in the world settled townsfolk were always quite the minority and it's nothing shocking that their culture would so widely influence everyone. Somalis very religiously changed in the last 50-100 years and have slowly become more tuulo-ized and urbanized like everyone else on Earth. Plus, the exact same phenomena occurred on the otherside of the Gulf with the Arabs whose nomads and ruralites kept dogs but the Xadhar were like Reer Magaal Somalis and spoke against them which slowly but surely led to Arabs being less pro-dog as they became more settled.

I'm not talking ab all the past, just the 19th century. Also all the settlements mentioned in the past weren't *all* urban centers. The Xiis papers shows a good example of that. Obvs reer Magaal were a minority compared to beesha rural, but in Somalia that share was much more extreme, with Reer Magaal being a extremely small part compared to many other cultures. Same with many peoples like Kikuyu, Maasai, 19th cen Beesha Amazone etc.

Yes, the negative talk of them is very much the case in the last 50-100 years but that clearly doesn't seem the case before that where they'd demand a blood price for killing one. Also, I am sorry but there is literally no arguing with what Burton wrote unless you want me to put on a tin foil hat and believe he made all that up as some conspiracy for what? Why? He travelled everywhere across the north, met all 4 major tribes, went all the way to Harar and plainly states nomadic and rural Somalis have dogs and over and over again, and when he is in their villages and nomadic camps dogs are a fixture. It fits with the archaeology too. If you can debunk this feel free but otherwise you are literally arguing with data, walaal.

Eyle ain't a 50-100 years talk and only Burton isn't convincing enough. U can still have shepherd dogs and look down upon them + dogs is mostly associated with hunter and boonnimo

 

[Garaad diinle]

many villages, distinguished by the barking of dogs and the bleating of flocks

Burton describes Somalis' dogs at one point as "bushy tailed Pariahs"

I think i've seen a video with a similar description.

 

[Hamzza]

The Italians in the report ab Majeerteen Sultanate praised its horses for the same thing

Did they praise the Somali horses for being adopted to the aridity of the country? Which report was that?

 

[Shimbiris]

Eyle ain't a 50-100 years talk and only Burton isn't convincing enough. U can still have shepherd dogs and look down upon them + dogs is mostly associated with hunter and boonnimo

We're not discussing whether they were well-loved or not, no? Though it does seem reer Miyi did not hate dogs back then. What it seems to me you are almost saying is that Burton made what he wrote up for some reason and Somalis didn't really keep dogs back then. If so, I'm sorry but I won't entertain stuff like "I will disregard this perfectly reliable source because I don't like what it says." that is nonsense, I fear. It also does plainly fit with the archaeology and it makes perfect sense that they'd have had dogs back then. Every nomadic group around them did. I don't see why they'd be some magic exception.

I'm not talking ab all the past, just the 19th century. Also all the settlements mentioned in the past weren't *all* urban centers. The Xiis papers shows a good example of that. Obvs reer Magaal were a minority compared to beesha rural, but in Somalia that share was much more extreme, with Reer Magaal being a extremely small part compared to many other cultures. Same with many peoples like Kikuyu, Maasai, 19th cen Beesha Amazone etc.

Walaal, by 1764 Somalis were already making up quarters of magaalo in Yemen:

By the 1800s they were everywhere in Aden:

With respect to Somali women, Hunter comments that numbers "are employed in sifting and cleaning coffee" and observes that, while such work is irregular, "ten rupees per mensem can be earned in this way by an energetic adult woman." He also notes that "many Arab and Somali women go about vending cakes of fermented and unfermented bread, as also cups of buttermilk (Katib), and occasionally sweetmeats." Somali women, "who are naturally industrious, weave excellent mats," as earlier visitors to Aden had also remarked. "Many also take service as 'ayahs' or female servants."

"Why do all these Somali live in Aden?" wondered the German visitor von Maltzan in 1870. "It is not easy to say. Some follow ships in, others are boat-people, or fishermen, still others do temporary, mostly light, service. The native police employs a small part of them, for most of Aden's police force is itself Somali. They make an excellent police officer."

As for Somali men, another observer noted in the mid-1 840s that"they are in general men of indolent habits and earn a precarious subsistence as coolies, servants, cooks, and even sailors, just as the whim seizes them, serving no longer than suits their inclinations in those various employments."

THE SOMALI COMMUNITY AT ADEN IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY on JSTOR

Edward A. Alpers, THE SOMALI COMMUNITY AT ADEN IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY, Northeast African Studies, Vol. 8, No. 2/3 (1986), pp. 143-168

www.jstor.org

The northeast was relatively destitute at this time and the ports there were tiny and practically villages like Dubai and Sharjah used to be but there were a lot of them. Bandar Qassim, Bandar Beyle, Calula, Qandala... the list goes on to a point where even in this terribly arid region non-nomads like the inhabitants of these towns made up at least 15% of the population:

Of a total population of 82,653 for the Mijertein region, 59,554 are pastoralist, 5,297 agriculturalist-pastoralist, 920 sedentary cultivators, 9,692 fishermen and sailors, and 3,097 merchants. - Peoples of the Horn of Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho ​

In the northwest Berbera, if memory serves me right, would balloon up to as much as 40,000 people at its famous high season, a lot of those nomads and traders from the interior coming from places like Harar. By the 1850s before the arrival of the Egyptians or Abyssinians which laid waste to the place's original demographics, Somalis pretty much made up 1/3rd of Harar with the remaining 1/3rd who were nomads who came and went appearing to be Somalis as well. The local Amir's first wife among 4 was the daughter of a local Somali Garaad and one of his most important ministers who went on diplomatic missions for the town was a Somali of the same tribe:

The Amir Ahmed’s health is infirm. Some attribute his weakness to a fall from a horse, others declare him to have been poisoned by one of his wives.30 I judged him consumptive. Shortly after my departure he was upon the point of death, and he afterwards sent for a physician to Aden. He has four wives. No. 1. is the daughter of the Gerad Hirsi; No. 2. a Sayyid woman of Harar; No. 3. an emancipated slave girl; and No. 4. a daughter of Gerad Abd el Majid, one of his nobles. He has two sons, who will probably never ascend the throne; one is an infant, the other is a boy now about five years old.

The Berteri, who occupy the Gurays Range, south of, and limitrophe to, the Gallas, and thence extend eastward to the Jigjiga hills, are estimated at 3000 shields.27 Of Darud origin, they own allegiance to the Gerad Hirsi, and were, when I visited the country, on bad terms with the Girhi. The chief’s family has, for several generations, been connected with the Amirs of Harar, and the caravan’s route to and from Berberah lying through his country, makes him a useful friend and a dangerous foe. About the Gerad Hirsi different reports were rife: some described him as cruel, violent, and avaricious; others spoke of him as a godly and a prayerful person: all, however, agreed that he had sowed wild oats. In token of repentance, he was fond of feeding Widads, and the Shaykh Jami of Harar was a frequent guest at his kraal.

Shortly after arrival, I sent my Salam to one of the Ulema, Shaykh Jami of the Berteri Somal: he
accepted the excuse of ill health, and at once came to see me. This personage appeared in the form of a little black man aged about forty, deeply pitted by small-pox, with a protruding brow, a tufty beard and rather delicate features: his hands and feet were remarkably small. Married to a descendant of the Sherif Yunis, he had acquired great reputation as an Alim or Savan, a peace-policy-man, and an ardent Moslem. Though an imperfect Arabic scholar, he proved remarkably well read in the religious sciences, and even the Meccans had, it was said, paid him the respect of kissing his hand during his pilgrimage. In his second character, his success was not remarkable, the principal results being a spear-thrust in the head, and being generally told to read his books and leave men alone. Yet he is always doing good “lillah,” that is to say, gratis and for Allah’s sake: his pugnacity and bluntness—the prerogatives of the “peaceful”—gave him some authority over the Amir, and he has often been employed on political missions amongst the different chiefs.

Link

In Koonfur Gibil-Madows were the majority in Xamar and Baraawe and about half the population as well as the rulers in Marko. Yes, Reer Magaal culture was a minority like anywhere else in the world but it was firmly a part of our dynamics even in the 19th century. And I wouldn't say an extreme minority. In most of the world historically, outside of some minor exceptions like Classical Greece, an 80-90:10-20 split between rural and urban was fairly regular, walaal. Most people's ancestors everywhere in the world were overwhelmingly reer miyi.

And nowadays almost 50% of Somalis are urban (was like 25% in 1960, if I'm not mistaken). That's just urban. When you count the tuulo it becomes even more extreme, I reckon. I've driven around the countryside even in Bari and most of what I encountered were tuulos of varying sizes and then the occasional magaalad. Nomads were a scarce sight, to be honest. I'd just run into the occasional lone family most of the time and then it was more common to see them living in a modern hut than an Aqal.

It's not far-fetched, I would say, that reer magaal mentalities influenced Somalis in general today, especially given that the magaalo often were home to Shaykhs who had ambitions of proselytizing to and influencing the reer miyi iyo tuulo to whatever order and doctrines they subscribed to but this is honestly an unnecessary exercise. If you can disprove what Burton is saying with more than "It's one source and I want to act as though he made it up" then alright but otherwise you're arguing with data and asking me to put on a tinfoil hat and believe some cadaan man cared enough to make stuff up about seeing dogs; a fact he mentions as offhandedly as telling you that the sky is blue.

 

[Shimbiris]

I think i've seen a video with a similar description.

Exactly the type of dog I was thinking of. Do you have the original source, walaal?

 

[Garaad diinle]

Exactly the type of dog I was thinking of. Do you have the original source, walaal?

You sure you wanna know it's embarrassing but if you insist i guess viewers discretion is advised.
It's a colonial era film called Sentinelle di Bronzo or the bronze soldier made in 1936.

 

[Shimbiris]

You sure you wanna know it's embarrassing but if you insist i guess viewers discretion is advised.
It's a colonial era film called Sentinelle di Bronzo made in 1936.

Congrats. You have created an enemy of Italy this day. I have internally declared war and, god-willing, I will one day see Rome burn for this.