A Simple Yet Serious Question for All the Feminists Out There

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I came across this article the other day. It attempts to link the recent events in Iran to worldwide religious oppression by men:


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Read it if you will, but since it’s basically a feminist’s manifesto in relation to the events in Iran, you can probably easily guess its contents.

This is her core “point”:

“…if religious fundamentalism in Iran and everywhere else continues to prevail, women and girls will never be truly liberated.”

And here’s my question to her and the rest of the feminists:

What exactly do you want to be liberated from?

In a lot of cases, I think what oppresses women is two-fold: the expectations placed upon them by feminism (to essentially be a man); and the same human condition that affects both sexes. A lot of the time the greatest hindrance to ourselves is us ourselves—by being lazy, by not speaking up when we should have, by being a perfectionist, by not trying hard enough, by not controlling our anger…and all that is in between.

A lot of the problems we have and experience are not due to how others perceive us; but rather because of how we perceive ourselves, our behavior in relation to ourselves, and our expectations for ourselves.

Obviously we are in no way denying that there are always unfortunately people who are simply innocent victims too. No one here is blaming rape victims for the actions of the perpetrators. This is not an exercise in gas lighting.

What I am addressing here is specifically the quotidian, the mundane. The reason being that there is a general argument from feminists claiming their daily lives have been rendered more difficult because of men and the rules that they impose upon women.

RELATED: Feminism Is Female Narcissism

I’ve met quite a few wives, for example, who were absolutely convinced their husbands were the reason they were stuck and dissatisfied with their lives. They saw their husbands as fitting a lot of the stereotypes that feminists have of men, only to later discover that when they changed their own behavior and were also more compassionate towards their husbands, their husbands ended up becoming their heroes.

The author in question has taken this portrayal of men as oppressors and amplified it to assert that men harness religion to expressly create rules for the purpose of oppressing women. This is unfortunate for a number of reasons. She denies Allah’s role as the originator of faith; she causes more confusion among women who, while searching for answers to their problems, come to believe that men are their primary problem. Consequently this completely blocks off any opportunity for actual introspection.

Fear of Losing Control​

Perhaps this author, coming from eastern Europe, is most familiar with the Catholic Church and its man-made laws (and it seems safe to assume that she’s most likely an atheist). Nonetheless, she overlooks the fact that for Muslims, we believe Allah made our laws.

So not only does the author grant men a certain level of authority that they simply don’t possess (in Islam, they don’t create the rules), she completely denies Allah’s role in the order that He has established. And through all of this, she overlooks the very purpose of His established order.

I bring this up because I believe there is a very serious internal struggle at the heart of this supposed struggle against oppression.

A central point of this author’s article relates to men supposedly controlling women through religion:

“Religion is a mere tool and an excuse used to control society—especially women—for the benefit of a handful of men.”

This is a standard atheist perspective, and it barely deserves any attention because it is so extremely divorced from reality. They try to make it seem as though religious law allows men to do whatever they please.

RELATED: Feminism and the Death of Christianity: A Warning for Muslims

But this point about control is a reason why atheism and feminism go well together.

I once met a woman who discussed religion with me at-length; she was particularly interested in my embracing of Islam. We discussed various aspects of the religion, and it was clear that what bothered her was how women must dress and behave in Islam. I tried to explain and noted as usual that Allah asks this of us for specific reasons. Then came the words that made it all clear to me.

She said—and I’m paraphrasing here from my memory:

“I will not be controlled by anyone.”

It seemed to me like she was far too focused on her fear of being controlled rather than assessing whether or not there was inherent value in the behaviors being demanded. I feel there was also a lack of gratefulness. Allah provides us all with so much rizq, so much that we’re barely grateful for, that it seems reasonable to do the things He asks of us. When we do obey Him, we usually come to understand their benefits, which are for both men and women.

Feminism has smothered these benefits, demanding equal treatment of the sexes, with a complete and utter disregard for their differences. This is made even more unfortunate because this ideology is imparted onto girls from a fairly young age, making them unknowing victims to it and ultimately harming their relationships later on in life.

The feminist author who wrote the article would likely agree with this woman. She writes:

“And no, I will never respect any belief system that doesn’t respect me back. That claims women must be modest to be respected or worthy…”

This is as sad as it is confusing. Is respect not something that is gained and not demanded? What exactly is so wrong with modesty? Since when have men and women been able to do whatever they want and been granted unconditional respect?

RELATED: How Liberal Muslims Selectively Cite the “No Compulsion” Verse

It seems that feminists have strayed so far from basic common sense that they now live in some kind of alternate reality based on their contradictory expectations for people.
 

The Effects on All of Us​


That this misunderstanding and lack of introspection has caused such animosity toward religion and Islam in particular is truly a shame. Ultimately it’s their loss, but Muslims end up suffering because of it too since they have to figure out a way to navigate all domains and raise children in this anything-goes world.

Feminists seem to want preferential treatment because they are women, yet what is confounding is that when they receive this, it doesn’t make them happy. Many men go out of their way to be kind to women simply because they are women. They hold doors for them, protect them, etc., solely because they are women. But this is something that often frustrates feminists.

For some reason, this preferential treatment is rejected by feminists for simultaneously being too much and never enough. When such ideas are inserted into a marriage, it causes a great deal of harm.

Feminism tells women they deserve everything and owe nothing. Such a mindset breeds entitlement, ungratefulness, and ‘dissatisfaction.’ They become unpleasable. This is completely toxic for a marriage. If the wife feels overly entitled and is ungrateful and always unsatisfied, the husband will understandably stop trying to please her. You can fill in the blanks yourself regarding the rest of the story of a couple’s marital demise. Oftentimes it was over something that was entirely avoidable.

Conclusion​


Taking a step back from the trite tropes of the media—both corporate and social—and taking time to reflect upon ourselves, our behavior, our goals, what we’re practically doing to achieve these goals…I think this is something that would do us all some good.

Here’s my plea to the author who is convinced that women need to be liberated from religious fundamentalism…from being a ‘baby-making machine’…from everything. Take a step back for a moment and reflect. Think about the ramifications of building a society in the way you haphazardly propose through your feminist diatribes.

For anyone who would say this is just a Kool-aid-drinking religious person, there’s a growing number of women—who do not even speak from a particularly religious perspective—that are rejecting feminism in one way or another. Here are two examples.

If feminists sincerely reflected on what they felt was holding them back, a great deal of it would have to do with their own approaches and analyses of situations. Not the patriarchy.

I think the question of what exactly they wish to be liberated from could potentially inspire some much-needed self-reflection. Realistically however, asking for feminists to take some time to reflect on this is likely asking too much from them.

RELATED: Are We Liberated Yet? Western Women Working Themselves to Death

 

Periplus

Min Al-Nahr ila Al-Ba7r
VIP
What exactly do you want to be liberated from?

I am not even a woman and that’s an easy answer.

They want to be freed from repressive/misogynist cultural practices that are wrongfully classified as Islam.

Best example is the notorious former law of not letting women drive in KSA.

Where is that a justifiable law in Islam?
 

hinters

E pluribus unum
VIP
I am not even a woman and that’s an easy answer.

They want to be freed from repressive/misogynist cultural practices that are wrongfully classified as Islam.

Best example is the notorious former law of not letting women drive in KSA.

Where is that a justifiable law in Islam?
Yeah cars didn't exist 1400 years ago.
 

Periplus

Min Al-Nahr ila Al-Ba7r
VIP
Yeah cars didn't exist 1400 years ago.

Exactly, when women ask to be freed from these unislamic practices, they’re called feminists and their imaan is questioned.

There are three groups of Khawaarij in todays society: Terrorists, Muslims that try to “reform” Islam and Muslims that make Islam more austere than it actually is.
 

Omar del Sur

RETIRED
VIP
I am not even a woman and that’s an easy answer.

They want to be freed from repressive/misogynist cultural practices that are wrongfully classified as Islam.

Best example is the notorious former law of not letting women drive in KSA.

Ok so excluding any women who may be living in Saudi in a parallel universe where it's still 2006- what is it exactly that modern feminist women in the West are needing to be liberated from?
 

Periplus

Min Al-Nahr ila Al-Ba7r
VIP
Ok so excluding any women who may be living in Saudi in a parallel universe where it's still 2006- what is it exactly that modern feminist women in the West are needing to be liberated from?

- Domestic violence
- Barriers to pursuing further education
- Forced marriages

Etc.

Not saying that the Somali community or most Muslim communities have these problems. But we have worrying statistics in all three areas.

This is not Islam but rather people forcing cultural practices on their women.
 

Omar del Sur

RETIRED
VIP
- Domestic violence
- Barriers to pursuing further education
- Forced marriages

Etc.

Not saying that the Somali community or most Muslim communities have these problems. But we have worrying statistics in all three areas.

This is not Islam but rather people forcing cultural practices on their women.

- Domestic violence

- Barriers to pursuing further education

- Forced marriages

This is a very sanitized version of what modern Western feminism is about. If this was all it was about, it wouldn't be nearly as controversial as it is. Furthermore, it wouldn't find it necessary to attack so many ordinary men and so much of Islam. One of the top feminist posters on here said she's against ninety percent of Muslim men and expressed animosity against 75% of the men on this board. Yet I don't know of anyone on here who promotes domestic violence, forced marriage or banning women from education.

Modern feminism promotes

-turning women into harlots
-OnlyFans
-sexual degeneracy
-strange claims that there are infinite genders and you can change your gender at will
-pushing all of this filth on peoples' kids and doing so against the will of their parents

modern western feminism is largely a harlot movement. In the West, I think pretty much every woman who is the neighborhood harlot is some sort of feminist. it promotes women sleeping with random men and that is why every man in his right mind is opposed to it. If I had a daughter I wouldn't want this kind of ideology for her and I can't imagine why you'd be okay with this kind of ideology for your daughter.

the basic tenet of modern western feminism is "it's ok to be a harlot". mass numbers of harlots, mass promiscuity- all this is bad for society.

in feminist jargon it's called "sex positivity". pretty much all the modern feminism is on board with such.

forced marriage for example is clearly prohibited by the sharia. so why would you need to join hands with the filthy aforementioned movement?

as I've said before about this feminist thing- if what you want is really in line with Islam then just defend women's rights as they're already laid out in Islam. unless what you want is not in line with Islam, there's no need to bring in any outside ideology and there's no definitely no need to join with this filth that is modern Western feminism.

I mean for example look at Iran right now. they're having a feminist movement. are they upset about domestic violence? no. are they being barred from education? if that was it, it would already be "mission accomplished"- Iran is fine with women education and I think their female population is highly "educated" (I use quotes cuz much modern education is just indoctrination) already. is it about forced marriage? no.

it is a movement against hijab and they are burning hijab.

no, we can talk about feminism "in theory" and say "that's not REAL feminism" but this is the same thing Communists do when you talk about the actual history Communism and how it's worked out in real life. in real life, we see feminism and it's anti-hijab or it's pro-promiscuity or the feminists are pushing weird lgbt madness and now even on kids. or look at Ilhan Omar for example. she promotes abortion and lgbt. and I'm not picking on her- I know there's a supposedly Muslim mayor, I think something Khan- I think in London. but I don't know anything about him or about UK.

there was a really famous Egyptian feminist I heard about. I saw her argue in favor of women going around naked! I also heard her talk about rewriting the Quran, changing the Quran or something like that.

we can come up with our own version of Communism or feminism and claim it's in line with Islam... but whenever you look at actual feminism in real life, it's like ninety percent of the time it's up to something against Islam. i think saying ninety percent is generous tbh. i don't know of any real life feminism thing where it's just limited to the stuff you mentioned.
 

Periplus

Min Al-Nahr ila Al-Ba7r
VIP
- Domestic violence

- Barriers to pursuing further education

- Forced marriages

This is a very sanitized version of what modern Western feminism is about. If this was all it was about, it wouldn't be nearly as controversial as it is. Furthermore, it wouldn't find it necessary to attack so many ordinary men and so much of Islam. One of the top feminist posters on here said she's against ninety percent of Muslim men and expressed animosity against 75% of the men on this board. Yet I don't know of anyone on here who promotes domestic violence, forced marriage or banning women from education.

Modern feminism promotes

-turning women into harlots
-OnlyFans
-sexual degeneracy
-strange claims that there are infinite genders and you can change your gender at will
-pushing all of this filth on peoples' kids and doing so against the will of their parents

modern western feminism is largely a harlot movement. In the West, I think pretty much every woman who is the neighborhood harlot is some sort of feminist. it promotes women sleeping with random men and that is why every man in his right mind is opposed to it. If I had a daughter I wouldn't want this kind of ideology for her and I can't imagine why you'd be okay with this kind of ideology for your daughter.

the basic tenet of modern western feminism is "it's ok to be a harlot". mass numbers of harlots, mass promiscuity- all this is bad for society.

in feminist jargon it's called "sex positivity". pretty much all the modern feminism is on board with such.

forced marriage for example is clearly prohibited by the sharia. so why would you need to join hands with the filthy aforementioned movement?

as I've said before about this feminist thing- if what you want is really in line with Islam then just defend women's rights as they're already laid out in Islam. unless what you want is not in line with Islam, there's no need to bring in any outside ideology and there's no definitely no need to join with this filth that is modern Western feminism.

I mean for example look at Iran right now. they're having a feminist movement. are they upset about domestic violence? no. are they being barred from education? if that was it, it would already be "mission accomplished"- Iran is fine with women education and I think their female population is highly "educated" (I use quotes cuz much modern education is just indoctrination) already. is it about forced marriage? no.

it is a movement against hijab and they are burning hijab.

no, we can talk about feminism "in theory" and say "that's not REAL feminism" but this is the same thing Communists do when you talk about the actual history Communism and how it's worked out in real life. in real life, we see feminism and it's anti-hijab or it's pro-promiscuity or the feminists are pushing weird lgbt madness and now even on kids. or look at Ilhan Omar for example. she promotes abortion and lgbt. and I'm not picking on her- I know there's a supposedly Muslim mayor, I think something Khan- I think in London. but I don't know anything about him or about UK.

there was a really famous Egyptian feminist I heard about. I saw her argue in favor of women going around naked! I also heard her talk about rewriting the Quran, changing the Quran or something like that.

we can come up with our own version of Communism or feminism and claim it's in line with Islam... but whenever you look at actual feminism in real life, it's like ninety percent of the time it's up to something against Islam. i think saying ninety percent is generous tbh. i don't know of any real life feminism thing where it's just limited to the stuff you mentioned.

No one on this thread is talking about modern feminism. That is a seperate conversation.

We are talking about issues that Muslim women need to be liberated from.

This has nothing to do with my views or yours, feminism or not. We are talking about people associating their culture with Islam and using it as a tool to subjugate Muslim women.
 

Omar del Sur

RETIRED
VIP
No one on this thread is talking about modern feminism. That is a seperate conversation.

We are talking about issues that Muslim women need to be liberated from.

This has nothing to do with my views or yours, feminism or not. We are talking about people associating their culture with Islam and using it as a tool to subjugate Muslim women.

ummm the title of the article is that is posted in OP is

A Simple Yet Serious Question for All the Feminists Out There​


and I asked you specifically about what modern western women needed to be liberated from
 

Periplus

Min Al-Nahr ila Al-Ba7r
VIP
ummm the title of the article is that is posted in OP is

A Simple Yet Serious Question for All the Feminists Out There​


and I asked you specifically about what modern western women needed to be liberated from

I was answering the question that the article posed.

The title of the thread is irrelevant. I was answering a question about the struggles of Muslim women.
 

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