a question for somali atheists?

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Kratos

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Because there's just no evidence for it. For example, according to islam humans are descended from Adam and eve. Adam was created from "dust" and Eve from his rib (strongly contradicts modern evolutionary theory). Noah built a boat and put all the animals in the world in it simultaneously (penguins, polar bears, lions and kangaroos), jews were apparently enslaved in Egypt and freed by Moses (most historians consider this to be bs since the Egyptians never mentioned enslaved jews in their society) along with other stories in the scriptures considered to be true events.

None of that stuff sounds logical at all as all of the modern evidence is against it. That's why I say its based on faith. Due to criticism of christianity in the west the catholic church have changed their interpretation of the bible numerous times and they accepted the theory of evolution in the 50s. Alot of bishops also believe these stories to be metaphors, but muslims can't say that because they believe that the quran is the direct word of god (spoken to mohamed through jibriil) as such all these stories are accepted as fact by the Ulema. So its not really based on logical reasoning.
 

munira

Somaliweyn haa nolaato
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Because there's just no evidence for it. For example, according to islam humans are descended from Adam and eve. Adam was created from "dust" and Eve from his rib (strongly contradicts modern evolutionary theory). Noah built a boat and put all the animals in the world in it simultaneously (penguins, polar bears, lions and kangaroos), jews were apparently enslaved in Egypt and freed by Moses (most historians consider this to be bs since the Egyptians never mentioned enslaved jews in their society) along with other stories in the scriptures considered to be true events.

None of that stuff sounds logical at all as all of the modern evidence is against it. That's why I say its based on faith. Due to criticism of christianity in the west the catholic church have changed their interpretation of the bible numerous times and they accepted the theory of evolution in the 50s. Alot of bishops also believe these stories to be metaphors, but muslims can't say that because they believe that the quran is the direct word of god (spoken to mohamed through jibriil) as such all these stories are accepted as fact by the Ulema. So its not really based on logical reasoning.

That’s interesting but I was questioning why you were agnostic not why you don’t believe in Abrahamic religions. Why is it illogical to believe in a divine being?
 

Kratos

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That’s interesting but I was questioning why you were agnostic not why you don’t believe in Abrahamic religions. Why is it illogical to believe in a divine being?

Sorry I misunderstood you. I don't think it can be determined logically, well not yet anyway. There is just too much we don't know
 

munira

Somaliweyn haa nolaato
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Sorry I misunderstood you. I don't think it can be determined logically, well not yet anyway. There is just too much we don't know

It can be determined logically: The universe was created, as stated by science, therefore it needs a creator. This creator had to be the first cause due to the problem of infinite regress.

Therefore, a creator who is more superior to his creations does exist.
 

Kratos

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It can be determined logically: The universe was created, as stated by science, therefore it needs a creator. This creator had to be the first cause due to the problem of infinite regress.

Therefore, a creator who is more superior to his creations does exist.

Your logic is based on the assumptions that the universe needs a creator and that this creator is singular. How come?
 
Because there's just no evidence for it. For example, according to islam humans are descended from Adam and eve. Adam was created from "dust" and Eve from his rib (strongly contradicts modern evolutionary theory). Noah built a boat and put all the animals in the world in it simultaneously (penguins, polar bears, lions and kangaroos), jews were apparently enslaved in Egypt and freed by Moses (most historians consider this to be bs since the Egyptians never mentioned enslaved jews in their society) along with other stories in the scriptures considered to be true events.

None of that stuff sounds logical at all as all of the modern evidence is against it. That's why I say its based on faith. Due to criticism of christianity in the west the catholic church have changed their interpretation of the bible numerous times and they accepted the theory of evolution in the 50s. Alot of bishops also believe these stories to be metaphors, but muslims can't say that because they believe that the quran is the direct word of god (spoken to mohamed through jibriil) as such all these stories are accepted as fact by the Ulema. So its not really based on logical reasoning.
yeah because "theories" means facts
 

Kratos

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yeah because "theories" means facts
They are not facts but ask yourself this, if god created the earth, then when we study the earth and its history shouldn't we see evidence of his existence? This was one of the driving principles of philosophers and scientists in the islamic golden age. So far all of the evidences collected in the natural sciences LITERALLY supports the theory of evolution. Either its a massive coincidence, or god planted human-like transitional fossils in the ground to test our imaan
 

munira

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Your logic is based on the assumptions that the universe needs a creator and that this creator is singular. How come?

The universe began to exist therefore it means something greater than it caused it to exist AKA a creator.

And it’s logical the creator is singular because multiple creators would mean power isnt concentrated. If power isn’t concentrated then those mini creators still need a creator which brings about the problem of infinite regress.
 

Kratos

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The universe began to exist therefore it means something greater than it caused it to exist AKA a creator.

And it’s logical the creator is singular because multiple creators would mean power isnt concentrated. If power isn’t concentrated then those mini creators still need a creator which brings about the problem of infinite regress.

You missed my point, why does the fact that the universe began have to mean that a greater being created it? How do you come to that conclusion?

Also the problem of infinite regress doesn't address the existence of multiple creators, rather wether the creator itself has a creator. There can be multiple uncreated creators and infinite regress won't be a problem.
 

munira

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You missed my point, why does the fact that the universe began have to mean that a greater being created it? How do you come to that conclusion?

Also the problem of infinite regress doesn't address the existence of multiple creators, rather wether the creator itself has a creator. There can be multiple uncreated creators and infinite regress won't be a problem.

Uh logically, if something is created, the creator is more supreme than it’s creation otherwise it wouldn’t be able to create it.

If you’re asking how do we know there is a creator of the universe, then it’s because the universe isn’t infinite, so it had a starting point. This starting point would mean it came into existence, which suggests something caused it to happen. This cause of the universe has to be the first cause due to infinite regress.

And there cannot be multiple uncreated creators because these creators would have to be the first cause and the word first and multiple are mutually exclusive. And as a result this would suggest these multiple creators were created.

We can’t proof the existence of a creator, however with reason, it suggests that a singular divine being exists, walaal.
 
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Kratos

Sonder
Uh logically, if something is created, the creator is more supreme than it’s creation otherwise it wouldn’t be able to create it.

If you’re asking how do we know there is a creator of the universe, then it’s because the universe isn’t infinite, so it had a starting point. This starting point would mean it came into existence, which suggests something caused it to happen. This cause of the universe has to be the first cause due to infinite regress.

And there cannot be multiple uncreated creators because these creators would have to be the first cause and the word first and multiple are mutually exclusive. And as a result this would suggest these multiple creators were created.

We can’t proof the existence of a creator, however with reason, it suggests that a singular divine being exists, walaal.

Again, there is an issue with your argument in that you’ve made a presupposition that the universe was created. You don’t know if it was created or not, you’re assuming it is. This is the main issue; how do you know the universe was created? Because you mentioned that the universe began to exist, i.e. there was a time it was not in existence. This is another assumption that you made. All we know is that the universe expanded from a single point. How do you know that it came into existence, or are you referring to the initial expansion when you say began?

Also first and multiple are not mutually exclusive. If two people tie for 1st place in a 100m race you have multiple firsts. If two people work together to create the first successful demonstration of nuclear fusion you have two first creators. Your argument doesn't rule out polytheism. Your argument is simply a creation = a creator and the creator is uncreated due to the problem of infinite regress. There could be one uncreated creator or there could be a committee of uncreated creators who set the universe into motion together. This scenario is possible under your arguments. Or maybe only one or some of them caused the universe, but it doesn't mean there are no other deities. Your arguments address creators not gods. What if there's two gods, one created the universe and the other just did something else? This doesn't result in an infinite regress and your arguments don't account for this or any form of a sentient god. Its just naming uncaused causers and uncreated creators, there are way too many possibilities under the conditions you've laid out.
 
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