A Productive Colonialism Vs Unproductive Independence

[Hilmaam]

@Omar del Sur I love your patriotism but don't let it get out of control.

India business was slovenly n very primitive and relied on word of mouth no contract or legal structures the west brought. Its agriculture was slovenly and manual and hand based not tractors. They didnt have mass manufacturing through machinery either which was born from the west, they did things thru manual/craft method lol.

But the biggest gain was their schools which created their impressive academics, doctors, technology ppl all over the world, did that exist prior to british? even china was the same as india refusing colonialism but then saw hong kong get rich and educated while they were in farms doing agricuture the same way of the pharoahs 5000 years ago, forget academics lol, no progress

The colonist nationalism and patriotism was out of control. Some of the land they colonized was purely for ego reasons. National pride and to flex muscle. They forced natives to speak their language. Worship their gods and give up culture as it was savage. Is this price worth it to get benefits you list?

 

[DR OSMAN]

In Somalias case we were strategic outpost for European powers they used for refueling station and access to ports to assert dominance in Red Sea and Indian ocean. There was not much to extract so we only got small taste of colonizations horror. The people with rubber, oil, gold and diamonds got brunt of it

Yes we were on the maritime route the north so they wanted to secure their 'transportation' links only thru in-direct rule where their was an absence of authority or thru mutual recognition of sultanate rule where it existed.

As for the south italy did possibly have settler colonialism on the mind similar to south africa but as is the case a population replacement would of been minimal like south africa but 'minority rule n majority right' system may have been implemented which is in stark contrast to majority rule and minority rights of most system.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Hilmaam the worst part of colonialism wasn't so much social-change u mentioned or theft of resources or usury of the population who gained nothing in return. The worst part is how they changed our 'brains n mentality' in terms of what 'rule n govt' looks like being similar to their highly centralized authority and that's why everyone who rules behaves and thinks no different to the colonials they criticize. Its hypocritical 4 african leaders to criticize colonials when their govts n leaders use the same colonial philosophy lol. Maskaxda bay naga 'degeen' even when they left

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Hilmaam I think african leaders use colonialism as an excuse to get away with behaving n ruling like colonials, u dont see other colonial countries coming on tv talkin about what was essentially less then a 100 year period especially successful ones who 'thank god' they inherited and advanced from it.

We must not deny our own challenges and concealing with colonialism. Yes colonials left a legacy and it can be good n bad and different experiences, but to act like that is the only issue facing our continent is ridiculous, even tho colonial legacy plays a role i dont deny but the rest is local dynamics. Rwanda shows maturity by admitting colonial legacy played a role but the rest was local dynamics and they moved on rather then being inside of the colonial trap of blame game cycle and playin the victim narrative, that leads nowhere productivee.

Alot of somalis want to be rwandans now based on their maturity and paul kagame leadership they see their on the right course and good future, u see how that creates social jealousy n envy PRODUCTIVITY.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

What you're asking is purely philosophical. Search up consequentialism. To answer your question, self-determination always. It's pretty silly to suggest that the colonizer and the colonized will have an equal relationship. You're always going to be subjugated to their rules, to their exploitation, to their massacres. Given the chose to live in either one, self-government.

 

[Omar del Sur]

The colonist nationalism and patriotism was out of control. Some of the land they colonized was purely for ego reasons. National pride and to flex muscle. They forced natives to speak their language. Worship their gods and give up culture as it was savage. Is this price worth it to get benefits you list?

is it any coincidence @DR OSMAN that you are a hardline ex-Muslim and you promote Western colonialism?? it is not a coincidence at all. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is married to a guy who is openly pro Western imperialism. the ex-Muslim and anti-Islam people love Western imperialism because it supports them against Islam.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Hilmaam Somalia future is bleak no policy or human capital retention, every cycle a president comes the other cancels out his progress, an example farmajo eritrean trained forces, cancelled, the ministries are the same leading to a zero outcome every 5 years. Paul Kagame n Rwanda are on the road to development, their not there but the 'road' is undeniable. The road isn't there in somalia and whenever its laid, its torn back down by new govt or moryans isbaaro. Isbaaro academic and govt isbaaro exists, hacademics is real

 

[DR OSMAN]

is it any coincidence @DR OSMAN that you are a hardline ex-Muslim and you promote Western colonialism?? it is not a coincidence at all. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is married to a guy who is openly pro Western imperialism. the ex-Muslim and anti-Islam people love Western imperialism because it supports them against Islam.

It doesn't matter who I am or believe but listen and measure what I say is all I ask, knowledge can be gained anywhere and not restricted to only where u think it should be bro or ur own bubble. Religion is god territory, it's not something u own and need to get involved in, I stand by that philosophy till the day I die.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Omar del Sur look at ottoman run north yemen compared to south yemen, a productive colonialism beats unproductive self rule, I stand by that philosophy. The north lived in mountains n were living like it was the 7th century, where-as south yemen exploded it's trade, developed human capital, was going to adopt mechanized economy based on rule of law not 'belief n good will or word of mouth' systems

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur look at ottoman run north yemen compared to south yemen, a productive colonialism beats unproductive self rule, I stand by that philosophy. The north lived in mountains n were living like it was the 7th century, where-as south yemen exploded it's trade, developed human capital, was going to adopt mechanized economy based on rule of law not 'belief n good will or word of mouth' systems

what is even this assumption of "productive" being the measuring stick? I agree it's good to be productive but if you mean economic factors or industrialization being the end-all, be-all, I don't share that view. most important is DIN.