54th Anniversary of the Kacaan

[TheLand]

A lot of strawmans, but not really. Ironically Aided/Ali Mahdi were in charge by 1991, have you seen any new gleaming highways? Yes, none of these things happened before his government and certainly not after. I simply don't like the hypocrisy and abaal-la'aan. The same folks who will cry about MSB literally live off and survive on the ports he constructed MSB was far from perfect but anyone would rather live in pre-91 Somalia than post-91.

No, Somalia could not and still cannot accomplish much because we are simply a dirt poor, nearly resource less, fourth world nation. I don't know if you live in the same world we do, but Somalia is not going to become Singapore by any stretch of the imagination. Our only hope is a combination of spectacular oil finds and a government that's tolerably corrupt and keeps us from killing each other.

What you are saying really doesn’t have much logic behind it. I guess you are just supporting your adeer like others do and that’s no surprise. The sad fact of the matter is, there was government before Siad Barre and no government after him. He said ‘dad ban katagi ee dal kama tagayo’ and that’s exactly what he did. You want to give him credit for things that he didn’t do and the Italians/Russians or others did. I guess that’s the difference between us, I have high expectations and you don’t. No offense.

 

[Bahal]

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That's what kills me man, these people act like I'm calling him the Somali Lee Kuan Yew but goddamn, can anyone honestly say with a straight face the Somali people are better off today?

I remember they were praising Farmajo for paying the troops. That's when I knew we were doomed.

What you are saying really doesn’t have much logic behind it. I guess you are just supporting your adeer like others do and that’s no surprise. The sad fact of the matter is, there was government before Siad Barre and no government after him. He said ‘dad ban katagi ee dal kama tagayo’ and that’s exactly what he did. You want to give him credit for things that he didn’t do and the Italians/Russians or others did. I guess that’s the difference between us, I have high expectations and you don’t. No offense.

Brother, you must think I am like you. If Aideed had carried on exactly where MSB left, I'd be signing Guulwade Aideed as a happily second class citizen.

 

[AlteKartel]

And to think SNM were waiting for things to calm down in the south to rejoin a reformed Somalia only for them to say "f*ck it" and declare independence. Puntland also had a lot of patience.

I hate those mooryans so much

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[Idilinaa]

You realize that's what the World Bank is for... right? I'm confused, did you think Somalia was a rich country or something? Was it not the same arid Somalia of 7-8 million of which 80% were literal goatherders with literally 0 resources outside of bananas and livestock?

We give him credit for, you know, actually delivering on major infrastructure and modernization projects despite inheriting a country that, again, literally did not even have a written language

And of course, you know, actually governing the country. Can you do the same in 2024?

Somalia had more resources than say Japan for example. Who btw had only agriculture before industrializing in 1860s, same with other European nations. Most non-industrialized countries gained most of their wealth through agriculture and had small scale manufacturing/trade industries alongside it.

It was similar for Somalia. So he didn't inherit a bad hand at all, he inherited a very advantages hand he could earn capital from both agriculture and livestock production and export to invest back into the economy, into manufacturing industries and factories and other infrastructure. He explored other resource options that required further investments which somalis had abundant of due to our geography

A lot of Somalis were literate in Arabic, significant people already wrote Somali in Arabic script. The contention wasn't written language, it was which writing script to use which stalled development.

It was the previous regimes that created setbacks he inherited, they depleted the state capital by corruption, stalled developments. British and Italians destroyed and dismembered key industries before independence.

 

[TheLand]

That's what kills me man, these people act like I'm calling him the Somali Lee Kuan Yew but goddamn, can anyone honestly say with a straight face the Somali people are better off today?

I remember they were praising Farmajo for paying the troops. That's when I knew we were doomed.





Brother, you must think I am like you. If Aideed had carried on exactly where MSB left, I'd be signing Guulwade Aideed as a happily second class citizen.

I’ll give you a simple analogy to summarize this pointless argument. The Toronto raptors won the nba title in 2019. They had a new head coach, Nick Nurse who took over a team that had gone to the eastern conference finals in 2016 and was the number 1 seed in their conference. In 2019 they traded Kawhi Leonard for their best player. Kawhi was far better than the player they traded him for and was finals mvp. He had a historic run. Nurse was regarded as a genius and got a lot of credit for that championship but as the years have gone by since it’s clear he is not. They would have won the title with their previous coach and most other coaches because they had the best player left standing in the finals. He basically got credit for something he didn’t do and for being at the right place at the right time. Siyad is Nick Nurse. You want to give him credit for being in the right place at the right time. Anybody else in that position at that time would have had the same outcome, except he probably held on to power for too long.

 

[Bahal]

Somalia had more resources than say Japan for example. Who btw had only agriculture before industrializing in 1860s, same with other European nations. Most non-industrialized countries gained most of their wealth through agriculture and had small scale manufacturing industries alongside it.

It was similar for Somalia. So he didn't inherit a bad hand at all, he inherited a very advantages hand he could earn capital from agriculture and livestock production and export to invest back into the economy, into manufacturing industries and factories. He explored other resource options that required further investments.

A lot of Somalis were literate in Arabic, significant people already wrote Somali in Arabic script. The contention wasn't written language, it was which writing script to use which stalled development.

Japan?

Brother you are an African. Show me any African country, with far greater resources than we can ever hope to dream of, which accomplished all of the above in two decades? We numbered no more than 7 million most of whom were pastoralists.

What Somalis are literate in Arabic and wrote to each other outside of the tiny elite? What percentage of the population was literate in the mid 60s outside of dugsi?

I like your posts bro, but this is near hotepery wallahi

 

[Zak12]

intellectual leaders died before ‘91

The point of no return for the civil war was truly when American soldiers massacred Habr Gidir elders in 1993 during a peace talk conference. That idiotic head of the UN Boutros Gali also didn't invite Aidid to negotiations despite becoming the most powerful man in Somalia.

 

[Bahal]

I’ll give you a simple analogy to summarize this pointless argument. The Toronto raptors won the nba title in 2019. They had a new head coach, Nick Nurse who took over a team that had gone to the eastern conference finals in 2016 and was the number 1 seed in their conference. In 2019 they traded Kawhi Leonard for their best player. Kawhi was far better than the player they traded him for and was finals mvp. He had a historic run. Nurse was regarded as a genius and got a lot of credit for that championship but as the years have gone by since it’s clear he is not. They would have won the title with their previous coach and most other coaches because they had the best player left standing in the finals. He basically got credit for something he didn’t do and for being at the right place at the right time. Siyad is Nick Nurse. You want to give him credit for being in the right place at the right time. Anybody else in that position at that time would have had the same outcome, except he probably held on to power for too long.

Ok, now do better.

I'll give you an even better analogy.

The fans hate the coach, want the coach out. Coach gets fired. New coach comes in. Team is bottom of the league every year after that

 

[TheLand]

Ok, now do better.

I'll give you an even better analogy.

The fans hate the coach, want the coach out. Coach gets fired. New coach comes in. Team is bottom of the league every year after that

Coach gutted the team and refused to leave until fired. Team is dismantled and kicked out of the league. Coach is exiled like Pete Rose. Siyad Barre is Pete Rose

 

[TheLand]

Japan?

Brother you are an African. Show me any African country, with far greater resources than we can ever hope to dream of, which accomplished all of the above in two decades? We numbered no more than 7 million most of whom were pastoralists.

What Somalis are literate in Arabic and wrote to each other outside of the tiny elite? What percentage of the population was literate in the mid 60s outside of dugsi?

I like your posts bro, but this is near hotepery wallahi

Do you even know what Hotep is? What you are doing should be called adeer-tep

 

[Idilinaa]

Japan?

Brother you are an African. Show me any African country, with far greater resources than we can ever hope to dream of, which accomplished all of the above in two decades? We numbered no more than 7 million most of whom were pastoralists.

What Somalis are literate in Arabic and wrote to each other outside of the tiny elite? What percentage of the population was literate in the mid 60s outside of dugsi?

I like your posts bro, but this is near hotepery wallahi what Somalis are liter

Somalis are Africans that had cities, forts, industries, ships, education system/schools, commerce, modern state bureaucracies , was either using and minting currency and diplomatic embassies and trading stations abroad.

What other Africans societies was like this in the 1800s? aside from north africa?

And also it wasn't small elite that was literate in Arabic it was widespread poor, rich , young and old, rural and urban:

I wanna add also that it was not due to a lack of literacy or localized learning.

Literacy and localized learning was extensive in the early modern period both in the hinterland and on the coast, not limited a elite/rich or the clergy.

Each town and village had madrassas and schools teaching arabic by a qadi. Literacy only went down because of the colonial disememberment of Somali arabic educational system, which was replaced with English/Italian curriculum that alienated most Somalis and granted to a few, until the Kacaan government reversed things.

The average pastoralist in some random isolated area could read and write arabic:

''was great number of bedouins who had never resided in towns, and who yet were able to read and write Arabic''

Pastoralists are food producers just like farmers are. Or did you think the Japanese were all city people before industrialization not mostly 80% rural farmers?

UK had a population 10 million in 1800s and Sweden 2.4 million, having a small population means little.

Besides that we also had agricultural population and significant growing urban population as result of the surplus boom in the mid 1800s

I mention Japan because the Kacaan government went through the exact process of industrialization, which i can place side by side.

 

[Step a side]

Somalia wasn’t ready for independency. Botswana didn’t make that mistake. After independence they closely worked with the British for another 20-30 years to establish an educated youth and now they thrive as one of the wealthiest African nations. Democracy can only function when the voting population is educated.

 

[Bahal]

Coach gutted the team and refused to leave until fired. Team is dismantled and kicked out of the league. Coach is exiled like Pete Rose. Siyad Barre is Pete Rose

He didn't do the dismantling.

Do you even know what Hotep is? What you are doing should be called adeer-tep

Wallahi thumma wallahi if HSM woke up tomorrow and borrowed billions to reman and rearm the SNA, booted Ethiopia & Kenya out, burned Jilib & all terrorist strongholds to the ground, subdued all FMS, and embarked on major capital projects, I would be his biggest Guulwade.

 

[Bahal]

Somalis are Africans that had cities, forts, industries, ships, education system/schools, commerce, modern state bureaucracies , was either using and minting currency and diplomatic embassies and trading stations abroad.

What other Africans societies was like this in the 1800s? aside from north africa?

And also it wasn't small elite that was literate in Arabic it was widespread poor, rich , young and old, rural and urban:


Each town and village had madrassas and schools teaching arabic by a qadi. Literacy only went down because of the colonial disememberment of Somali arabic educational system, which was replaced with English/Italian curriculum that alienated most Somalis and granted to a few, until the Kacaan government reversed things.

The average pastoralist in some random isolated area could read and write arabic:

''was great number of bedouins who had ever resided i towns, and who yet were able to read and write Arabic''

Pastoralists are food producers just like farmers are. Or did you think the Japanese were all city people before industrialization not mostly 80% rural farmers?

Besides that we also had agricultural population and significant growing urban population as result of the surplus boom in the mid 1800s

I mention Japan because the Kacaan government went through the exact process of industrialization, which i can place side by side.

Look man, I like what you're doing and agree with you for the most part, but some times we gotta be honest with ourselves man

 

[TheLand]

He didn't do the dismantling.





Wallahi thumma wallahi if HSM woke up tomorrow and borrowed billions to reman and rearm the SNA, booted Ethiopia & Kenya out, burned Jilib & all terrorist strongholds to the ground, subdued all FMS, and embarked on major capital projects, I would be his biggest Guulwade.

Just admit it sxb, Siyad is your adeer, right?

 

[Zak12]

Somalis are Africans that had cities, forts, industries, ships, education system/schools, commerce, modern state bureaucracies , was either using and minting currency and diplomatic embassies and trading stations abroad.

What other Africans societies was like this in the 1800s? aside from north africa?

And also it wasn't small elite that was literate in Arabic it was widespread poor, rich , young and old, rural and urban:


Each town and village had madrassas and schools teaching arabic by a qadi. Literacy only went down because of the colonial disememberment of Somali arabic educational system, which was replaced with English/Italian curriculum that alienated most Somalis and granted to a few, until the Kacaan government reversed things.

The average pastoralist in some random isolated area could read and write arabic:

''was great number of bedouins who had never resided in towns, and who yet were able to read and write Arabic''

Pastoralists are food producers just like farmers are. Or did you think the Japanese were all city people before industrialization not mostly 80% rural farmers?

UK had a population 10 million in 1800s and Sweden 2.4 million, having a small population means little.

Besides that we also had agricultural population and significant growing urban population as result of the surplus boom in the mid 1800s

I mention Japan because the Kacaan government went through the exact process of industrialization, which i can place side by side.

IIRC, there was a picture posted here either from you or someone else that showed some Somali children huddled under a tree reading with a Sheikh teaching them or something like that. Do you know it?

 

[Idilinaa]

Look man, I like what you're doing and agree with you for the most part, but some times we gotta be honest with ourselves man

I am not trying to overestimate Somalis, i am laying down the reality. Somalis had every advantage and more. Like we had it stacked-

The only thing that stood against us was Europeans. their collaborators and the Ethiopians they were empowering against us.

What Kacaan did was an attempt to restore things back in motion. They did most of everything right when i examine it, their only unmaking was not having the luck of the draw in terms of geo-politics and having garbage predecessors.

Each town and village had madrassas and schools teaching arabic by a qadi. Literacy only went down because of the colonial disememberment of Somali arabic educational system, which was replaced with English/Italian curriculum that alienated most Somalis and granted to a few, until the Kacaan government reversed things.

The average pastoralist in some random isolated area could read and write arabic:

''was great number of bedouins who had never resided in towns, and who yet were able to read and write Arabic''

Just to add more to this with , this is just a description of the town of Murcanyo in 1872 on the Bari coast: S. B. Miles, On the Neighbourhood of Bunder Marayah,

''There are three mosques all whitewashed''

''The town also boasts a school , attended by thirty boys, who learn to read and write Arabic''

And in the rural areas , there would be Quranic/Arabic teachers traveling widely throughout the country side , teaching on wooden ink tablets, holding a quranic wooden rest, would gather kids under trees and they would even earn livelihood this way :

More on this institution of arabic learning that made people bilingual

If you take this into consideration it's not even strange how Somalis made rapid advances in literacy during Siad Barres take over to me when i look back at our robust educational system and spread of literacy prior to colonial disruption:

Linguist B.W.Andrzejewski describes Kacaan Regimes literacy advances as following:

“… one might venture to use the term “The Somali miracle” if one considers the sudden
transformation of the country from national illiteracy to a leading position in the whole Africa as far as concerns the use of the patrial [native] language in education and public life, a transformation which has taken only five years”.

He continues:
“… Somali has already become, in this respect, a model for imitation and emulation by other countries of the African continent, and several African educationalists showed great interest in her achievements at the international seminar on language and education in Africa, held in Kinshasa last December. Recently a delegation from the Niger Republic visited Mogadisho to discover what the best policy would be for the use of patrial language in schools and adult education”.


So it's ironic that you are trying to remind me that we are African, but here he says we are unlike them in this respect and it's even miracle when compared to them.

 

[Idilinaa]

IIRC, there was a picture posted here either from you or someone else that showed some Somali children huddled under a tree reading with a Sheikh teaching them or something like that. Do you know it?

No but if you find it send it to me. Sounds very wholesome

 

[Zak12]

@Step a side @Emir of Zayla @Aseer @Khaemwaset Maybe guys know what I'm talking about? Someone posted an old picture of Somali children sitting under a tree with a sheikh.

I swear I'm not crazy wallahi, it exists. It was a really nice picture that I want to find it again

 

[Burqad]

The point of no return for the civil war was truly when American soldiers massacred Habr Gidir elders in 1993 during a peace talk conference. That idiotic head of the UN Boutros Gali also didn't invite Aidid to negotiations despite becoming the most powerful man in Somalia.

They weren’t only HG, there were multiple clans represented