4000-year-old sample from the Middle Nile a potential source of early eastern Africa pastoralists

Like one guy wrote on Anthrogenica, I hope they don't mean indistinguishable as in basal Nilotic-like and MENA intermediate ratio, similar to what we see in how Kulubnarti samples cluster with Near Eastern/North Africa/Peninsular Arabia-shifted Horners on PCA and not completely overlap compositionally on a strict autosome signature-specific basis. Lmao, that would seriously be a downer in not getting conclusive convenient informative precedent for once without getting choked from scarce data linked to pastoralists. If this individual is real Kenyan Early Pastoral Neolithic-like (minus the Omotic admixture, reasonably, of course) then we have a somewhat nice chronological migratory expansion on an epic proportion in a very short time span (relatively speaking from such a widespread rate, material culture heterogeneity, and different broad-based subsistence strategies), because around the same time as that Max Planck Insitute sample, there are archeological herding presence found in Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia, Djibouti and Somaliland approximately around 2000 BCE.

Another important aspect, we can conclude about the Savannah Pastoral Neolithic in Kenya and Tanzania is that they migrated relatively fast-paced through Ethiopia and/or Eritrea and Somali region, and did not stay a long time in that geographic region. We can visualize a general continuous movement until arrival in the Rift Valley. This is contrary to what many of us believed. Namely that Cushitics, ancestors of South Cushitic herders, before entering Kenya, lived at least a thousand years or more in the Horn, leaving Sudan around the same time as the Northern Cushitic divergence. Given the lack of extensive wide archeological coverage in the Horn of Africa, the date might be pushed back further upon future findings, but as it stands now, we don’t have any evidence of 6000-year-old herder culture residing in the region. All the data coincide earliest in the 3rd millennium BC and later.

Here is a nice paper summarizing the archeological record about the introduction and spread of herding in the Horn of Africa:

Either way, if not, and this is just a Nubian-type profile, it would mean that C-group and/or Kerma people had those highly MENA Nubians back in the early Middle-Kerma period and you can, at least, assume this goes back into earlier times. We then have to, either way, accept a situation where Sudan in that dynamic period, was more diverse, and probably housed power centralization that included several distinct cultural peoples, as it covered an interesting geographic area. We’re still left with the question of the missing link in how those Nubians, Kulubnarti, or modern Nubian/Sudanese Arabs carry substantial Cushitic ancestry. Somehow that geneflow happened sometime back and there must have been extensive contact, probably even if this Kadruka sample is not wholly Cushitic. I don't buy this idea that Cushites were constrained or limited only to the Eastern Desert while leaving that much stable genetic imprint on the interior demography.

Anyway, there was an abstract from what looked like an upcoming study drafted among many other abstracts in an International Symposium on Biomolecular Archeology of 2021. One of the drafts showed a Nubian presentation giving short introductory scope about the objective and findings. I wondered about that study a couple of months later, so I checked around and found a submission for a doctoral dissertation from 2019 that, lo and behold, contained the same questions and answers as the abstract from two years later. The dissertation I will post under gives millennia-spanning time-transect of mitogenomes of Nubians dating from the Napatan, Meroitic, and Christian eras, that revealed information of the mtDNA analysis that showcased 6 haplogroups recovered with clear archeological contexts and methodological approaches belonging to L2a1, L0a1a, H2a, H2a, T1, N1a1a3. All of these belonged to separate cemeteries of varying "cultural horizons" of Nubian history, with L0a1a being the oldest, residing well within Nubia in the Napatan period (ca. 800-300 BCE).

You can download the dissertation by clicking on this link:
 
I find it strange that Lower Nubians were over 40% SSA and yet ancient Upper Egyptians are supposedly less African than modern Egyptians.
 
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A friend of mine made a program so that I could "Ethio-Somali" shift a Somali sample by 20%, in a bid to best represent proto-Cushites. I went for 20% as, once Mota ancestry is removed, the Early Pastoral Neolithic sample was 60% Eurasian, iirc. It isn't exactly 65% Eurasian, and, weirdly, the E_S component that itself lacks Mota-related ancestry, seems to elevate Mota related ancestry in this sample.

What do you guys make of this? It's not the best fit fit for some, but pretty good for others. Any other components to add?

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Is there a study on this, mate?

I'm not conspiracy theorist, but if that's the case, I sense foul play. It doesn't make sense.

I don't want to indulge in conspiracy theory as well, but a lot of the samples they're using were selectively assembled; specimens that were regarded as too Negro were automatically deemed to be of Nubians during the Egyptomania period of European colonialism, so I'm very sceptical -- especially when you consider the differences between Upper and Lower Egypt.
 

Aurelian

Forza Somalia!
VIP
I wouldn't call them proto-Somalis, much more like distant cousins. Still, we'll have to wait for the full study to be published.


Thanks for clearing this up, mate. I was looking for something exactly like the article you linked.

Makes sense. I think this, on top of the publication of the 105CE sample, should really clear things up.

There's also an excavation ongoing on Kushitic tombs from near the end of the Meroitic period, and I heard through Twitter that DNA would also be extracted. Though I doubt it'll aid in helping us discover anything about ourselves, it'll be interesting to see.

There was no doubt in my mind that they were Egyptian as the admixture event did happen in that area, but I thought they were very recent immigrants and entirely Natufian lol. Please elaborate if you can, bro.

There is this Middle Kingdom Egyptian K13+K36 reconstruction sample, and he wasn't the best fit either, I think. I'll check rn:
BoringFit:
View attachment 228931
WeWuzFit:
View attachment 228930
A better fit than Levant_PPNB for sure. Probably should've used Natufian but yh.
Oh god, who made this shit, Somali-somaliland? Since when Somalis dna differe between Las anood and Bosaaso?
 
Oh god, who made this shit, Somali-somaliland? Since when Somalis dna differe between Las anood and Bosaaso?
This type of inquiry of admixture modeling requires data points about the background of the samples to see if there are internal patterns in the broad parameters of ethnic designation.
 
I don't want to indulge in conspiracy theory as well, but a lot of the samples they're using were selectively assembled; specimens that were regarded as too Negro were automatically deemed to be of Nubians during the Egyptomania period of European colonialism, so I'm very sceptical -- especially when you consider the differences between Upper and Lower Egypt.
Didn’t the German team excavate in Egypt? Or did they just grab stuff from the museum?

If so, wouldn’t it be dumb since museum stuff are prone to be contaminated?

The 2021 Biomolecular (or some title like that) mentioned that Schuenemann, Urban Christian et al “retrieved samples from 6 different sites covering the entire length of the Egyptian Nile Valley”. The wording makes me think that they actually dug out stuff from those areas.

I’m guessing Hierakonpolis burial 43 (I might be wrong though) would be involved. However places opposite of modern day Aswan would likely not be included and nor would some sites in Luxor.

Dunno about Abydos or Kharga Oasis (if anything, didn’t Irish mentioned the affinities of Kharga people to groups such as Badarians? He also indicated the Badarians might originally be Western Desert nomadic peoples later influenced by a Levantine-like source, thus separating them from Gebel Ramlah, which is described as “intermediate” between EGs and Nubians) .

Regarding Abydos, on one hand Keita described them to have a southern pattern yet in Irish’s paper they appeared not so different from Tarkhan samples. Zakrzewski also proposed a lack of distinct southern/northern phenotype (still, she brought up the potential problems that caused this contradictory to Keith’s results) when spatial/chronological factors are involved.

I believe I’ve seen the latter two attributing it to class difference rather than “race”. (Still, it’s obvious that southerners would have a higher SSA count compared to those in the delta).


Also, did you get this information from Shimbiris? If so, here’s my two cents:

Regarding “African”, what do you mean by it? The meta population tariq moses mentioned were African in nature, just not SSA-like genetically (Natufian-like, perhaps?).

Plus Shimbiris said those samples of OK period were mainly “North African”, with very little “SSA Porto Nilotic”. He didn’t say “very little African”.

I find it strange that Lower Nubians were over 40% SSA and yet ancient Upper Egyptians are supposedly less African than modern Egyptians.

I’m a new poster but have been deep-diving in the forum for quite some while. So please indulge me if I’m missing on some background rules or updated info.

Now…

Which lower Nubian? What period are you referring to?

Is there a new study on ancient Lower Nubians?

Btw, I have to remind you Shimbiris mentioned that during the MK period, not only did Levant_BA ancestry increased, so too did Nilotic, which definitely had something to do with invasions from both the north (the Avaris people) and south (apparently Kush had more contacts with ancient Egypt during then, with examples such as the founder of 12th dynasty likely having a Nubian mom, a hilarious defeat on the AES side by Kushite-related peoples, Tati wife of a Hyksos Pharoah likely being a “Nehesy”).
Obviously anything that aimed to enter Upper Egypt had to pass through Lower Nubia. Lower Nubia is literally taken by Kush multiple times, so I’d say it does have a huge impact on the peoples.
So it’s best just to wait for aDNA profiles of A-Group, C-Group or other related peoples etc.

Tl;dr Not saying you’re 100% wrong, but if you’re using late period Nubians as proxies for earlier Lower Nubia/Upper Egypt then it might not be accurate. Same reason Abusir cannot be representative of older EG samples unless proven otherwise.
 
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@tariq moses
Didn’t further testing confirmed that Nakht-Ankh was actually a carrier of H2 as well? Apparently morphological divergence was found between him and Khnum-Nakht (half brothers and such), so what do you think of this?
Could it be that NA was a result of Egyptian+Egyptian marriage, while KN was a result of Beja/Lower Nubian+Egyptian marriage?
Or was it like this:
NA: Asiatic dad+Egyptian mom
KN: Nehesy/Lower Nubian/Medjay/Beja dad+EG mom?

H2 came from PPNB after all. Apparently Shimbiris said that it was E-M35 and J that were found in the samples he referenced.
How likely is it for AEs without recent Asiatic ancestry to carry y-chromosome H2?

 
Didn’t further testing confirmed that Nakht-Ankh was actually a carrier of H2 as well? Apparently morphological divergence was found between him and Khnum-Nakht (half brothers and such), so what do you think of this?
Please post a source.

Could it be that NA was a result of Egyptian+Egyptian marriage, while KN was a result of Beja/Lower Nubian+Egyptian marriage?
Or was it like this:
NA: Asiatic dad+Egyptian mom
KN: Nehesy/Lower Nubian/Medjay/Beja dad+EG mom?
You could prove this via skull data or autosomal data, do you have any of that?
H2 came from PPNB after all. Apparently Shimbiris said that it was E-M35 and J that were found in the samples he referenced.
How likely is it for AEs without recent Asiatic ancestry to carry y-chromosome H2?
H2 coming from PPNB doesn't mean it would have a ton of recent Levantine ancestry, it's autosomal ancestry could be identical to someone whos A-M13 and L3f.
 
Please post a source.


You could prove this via skull data or autosomal data, do you have any of that?

H2 coming from PPNB doesn't mean it would have a ton of recent Levantine ancestry, it's autosomal ancestry could be identical to someone whos A-M13 and L3f.
1.
I did? The thread from the site called Eupedia.

2.
Nakht-Ankh and Khnum-Nakht being morphologically divergent was noted from day one, don’t know why I would have to provide a source for that.
But to answer this, I can say that I have not seen studies done on these two MK samples by either Zakrzewski or Keita.
For what’s worth, the former noted morphological divergence among MK samples.

3.
Hmmm, because I was asking you? The craniometric info was provided by old school 19th century whites (iirc), and they literally classified khnum-Nakht as a “negroid specimen”.
I was literally asking you how likely that was, so you know, absolutely no agendas and such.
Btw, the provenance of the brothers was near Asyut. Would that imply contact from Lower Egypt hence recent immigrants from the Levant?
We know Asiatics were present at least from the 6th dynasty onwards.
4.
Didn’t those on Anthrogenica made a PCA cluster for him? Just curious, but do you take that as also a flawed estimation?
 
Didn’t the German team excavate in Egypt? Or did they just grab stuff from the museum?

If so, wouldn’t it be dumb since museum stuff are prone to be contaminated?

I was under the impression that the Egyptian authorities haven't authorised any genetic testing of any excavations and that the samples we do have were subject to racialist filtering..

The 2021 Biomolecular (or some title like that) mentioned that Schuenemann, Urban Christian et al “retrieved samples from 6 different sites covering the entire length of the Egyptian Nile Valley”. The wording makes me think that they actually dug out stuff from those areas.

I’m guessing Hierakonpolis burial 43 (I might be wrong though) would be involved. However places opposite of modern day Aswan would likely not be included and nor would some sites in Luxor.

It would be truly helpful if the samples were really retrieved from the South because that's the only way we're going to get any real answers on this; I hope they don't play games and substitute Luxor and Hierakonpolis with the Libyan influenced Kharga Oasis and have that as a stand in for the Upper Egyptians of Dynastic period.

Also, did you get this information from Shimbiris? If so, here’s my two cents:

Shimbiris has been a great scholar and I've learned a great deal from him, but my conspiracy theories are entirely my own.

Regarding “African”, what do you mean by it? The meta population tariq moses mentioned were African in nature, just not SSA-like genetically (Natufian-like, perhaps?).

Plus Shimbiris said those samples of OK period were mainly “North African”, with very little “SSA Porto Nilotic”. He didn’t say “very little African”.

If the Taforalt population was really intermediate, I would really love to pin-point the period in which the demographic landscape ostensibly shifted to a more decidedly Eurasian profile.

I’m a new poster but have been deep-diving in the forum for quite some while. So please indulge me if I’m missing on some background rules or updated info.

Now…

Which lower Nubian? What period are you referring to?

I'm mostly referring to the Kulubnarti population..

Tl;dr Not saying you’re 100% wrong, but if you’re using late period Nubians as proxies for earlier Lower Nubia/Upper Egypt then it might not be accurate. Same reason Abusir cannot be representative of older EG samples unless proven otherwise.

I think that Lower Nubia became more Eurasian shifted overtime rather than the other way and that's what the Kulubnarti paper demonstrated; a Eurasian population entered Lower Nubia and mixed with the SSA population that already resided there.

Once more samples from Northern Sudan come out and they start resembling Cushitic-Horners, my brother @Nilotic will have a full blown identity crisis meltdown

No, my sense of self is iron-clad and is not contingent on what genomes reveal about certain populations in ancient Sudan.

I just think that Upper 'Nubians' were more Nilo-Saharan than Lower 'Nubians' and I base this on the stark differences that Greco-Roman writers observed between them; and I don't think that the Kushites were ever Dinka-like at all, however, I don't think they were ever 'Cushitic' as well...

..I think the Upper Nubians (like the Kushites) were more like the Maasai-Samburu rather than any 'Cushitic' population; the Kushites have their origins (with other Nilo-Saharans) in Darfur-Chad, per the linguistic evidence.

But maybe you're right...perhaps the Greco-Roman writers just observed the difference in complexion between a very Eurasian shifted population in Lower Nubia and a Nubian or Beja-like population in Upper 'Nubia'.

Some Beja and Nubians can be very dark as well

Beja man

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Another dark Beja man

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Nubian man from Wadi Halfa

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Nubian man that looks very Nilotic

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Nubian family

nubian-family-sudan.jpg


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Nubian woman and her child in Wadi Halfa that also looks entirely Nilotic, and I don't know how; and before anybody says that she might be... we don't venture that far North.

ptp_139_01_p.jpg


Source:

 
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I was under the impression that the Egyptian authorities haven't authorised any genetic testing of any excavations and that the samples we do have were subject to racialist filtering..

I thought Hawass is no longer in charge?
He’s the main objection force. Still, he did not completely refuse DNA studies, I think there’s a catch to his comment.
Btw, I mentioned another study focusing on Third Intermediate Period-Roman Era
I think I’ve seen leaked news on Reddit indicating that those examinations were done in collaboration with the authorities.


It would be truly helpful if the samples were really retrieved from the South because that's the only way we're going to get any real answers on this; I hope they don't play games and substitute Luxor and Hierakonpolis with the Libyan influenced Kharga Oasis and have that as a stand in for the Upper Egyptians of Dynastic period.


Kharga wasn’t even in the Nile Valley, was it?
I cannot be sure whether they’d sample from that area but it would be hilariously stupid to not retrieve samples from Abydos, Thebes, or Nekhen. The Nile Valley is not complete without those three.

Now if they are using earlier samples retrieved during the dawn of Egyptology, it might be slightly biased but I wouldn’t expect them to be significantly different from the real deal. Zakrzewski mentioned that the genetic distance from old HK43 and new HK43 isn’t extremely prevalent after all (sure there are still outliers given the position of that city), which means prognathism values is not that big a factor. Plus we know for a fact that C-Group who lived in Nelhen practiced their own burial methods distinct from AEs. So there’s that.

The possibility of omitting samples is there (as you have said) but I do not expect it to be a modern thing, especially not in modern Germany, the try hard country that’s aiming to rebrand itself.

Though ultimately I don’t think OK samples would have a ridiculously high amount of Taforalt. I mean, Somalis and other Horner populations do not score that much Taforalt either.


If the Taforalt population was really intermediate, I would really love to know to pin-point the period in which the demographic landscape ostensibly shifted to a more decidedly Eurasian profile.

Taforalt and intermediate…what? Wasn’t it already established that these folks are mixed? Their Eurasian side came from unknown Dzudzuana-like HGs entering Africa during the Paleolithic, and then they mixed with local ANAs. I thought the 2018 supplementary data confirmed this.
Also, Eurasian doesn’t always mean “Eurasian-proper”. The Al-Khiday theory which I’m currently subscribing to could just be natives from the Egyptian Nile Valley. I think during the humid period, the genetic barrier between Near Easterners and North Africans blurred, meaning, tons of Near Easterners would have NA/basal ancestry, making them a metapopulation.

I'm mostly referring to the Kulubnarti population..

Weren’t these folks from a way later period?
The main issue I hold against this is because Middle Kingdom was likely a time when AES start scoring an increasing amount of Dinka.
You got a nomarch’s family in Aswan all being potentially of Nubian origin, and of course Amenemhat I’s mom was regarded as a woman from Ta-Seti.

I think that Lower Nubia became more Eurasian shifted overtime rather than the other way and that's what the Kulubnarti paper demonstrated; a Eurasian population entered Lower Nubia and mixed with the SSA population that already resided there.
You have to take into account that invasions happen both ways. Not just for Egypt but Nubia as well. Lower Nubia was also underpopulated during the Old Kingdom (iirc) thanks to First Dynasty Kings et al (Qustul and A-Group came to an end iirc via Egyptian military expansion)

I don’t enjoy arguing over proportions but it can also be said that Kushite control did a number on them. The expansion of Thutmose would as well indicate an influx from the south. We know it’s a fact that Nubians worked and attained high positions in AE society (much like today), plus the Gebelein remains were deemed more tropically adapted (by Zakrzewski*) than earlier samples.
While I guess we can all agree anything that pass into UEG would have to go through lower Nubia.
I’m guessing A or C group would be less Dinka shifted than either modern Nubians or Kulubnarti peoples.
Btw, I spotted a PCA plot regarding Roman period AEs, I’ll see if I can find the video.




I just think that Upper 'Nubians' were more Nilo-Saharan than Lower 'Nubians' and I base this on the stark differences that Greco-Roman writers observed between them; and I don't think that the Kushites were ever Dinka-like at all, however, I don't think they were ever 'Cushitic' as well...

That is likely true. However, I think A or C group would score lower Dinka compared to modern Cushitic speaking groups.



..I think the Upper Nubians (like the Kushites) were more like the Samburu rather than any 'Cushitic' population; the Kushites have their origins (with other Nilo-Saharans) in Darfur-Chad, per the linguistic evidence.

I have no strong view on this, btw. There are no leaks concerning the Kushite study.


But maybe you're right...perhaps the Greco-Roman writers just observed the difference in complexion between a very Eurasian shifted population in Lower Nubia and a Nubian or Beja-like population in Upper 'Nubia'.

The way I see it, they might be more or less similar to modern populations. In my head canon Kushites were as a whole similar to Horners with their Nilotic/Eurasian-like ancestry varying from space and time. Lower Nubians might just be like the people you’d find in Aswan and Elephantine. Obviously with the Yoruba component and Iran-related ancestry removed.
So like you said, you would get very SSA looking ones like Shikabala and those that look like Mohamed Mounir.
Point I’m trying to make is that Tariq Moses might be right regarding the difference between Upper Egyptians and Lower Nubians.
As one can see, A-Group were opportunistic in their lifestyles while Upper EGs were sedentary farmers, hence it wouldn’t surprise me if the former gained higher proportions of Nilotic ancestry.


Beja man

View attachment 229523

Nubian man from Wadi Halfa

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Nubian man that looks very Nilotic

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Nubian family

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Source:


Nubian woman and her child in Wadi Halfa that also looks entirely Nilotic, and I don't know how; and before anybody says that she might be... we don't venture that far North.



Source:


To be honest with you, as a non-African, I always find some Nubian men to resemble Sa’idi Egyptians. Some Bejas and Nubians are even more “caucasoid” than Sa’idis XD.
It could be like this for millennia given that UEG and AGR were described as morphologically similar.
I personally interpret that Roman writer’s accounts as no different form the situation today. Lots of lower Nubians and Sa’idis look similar but the former is darker. While you’d get North and Middle Sudanese who are on average darker than both.
 
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Nubian man that looks very Nilotic

View attachment 229526


Nubian woman and her child in Wadi Halfa that also looks entirely Nilotic, and I don't know how; and before anybody says that she might be... we don't venture that far North.

View attachment 229528
Living in Nubia doesn't make one Nubian, many migrant workers from the south work/live there and these two examples definitely fit the bill.

And this man looks fallata (West African settler), some of them mixed with Bejas and Nubians though.
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Beja and Nubian can be super dark and borderline Nilotic looking but rarely if ever pass as Southerners.
 
Living in Nubia doesn't make one Nubian, many migrant workers from the south work/live there and these two examples definitely fit the bill.

You might be right about that because their facial features are so out of step with the Nubian phenotype; I think they could be from the Nilo-Saharan Darfurians rather than Junubin because I've never heard of my people going beyond Khartoum-Omdurman.

I read an article about Wadi Halfa hosting other Sudanese groups and perhaps the white tourists just didn't do their due diligence.

And this man looks fallata (West African settler), some of them mixed with Bejas and Nubians though.
offset_973169-jpg.229524

Fallata that far North?

Do they actually have a Dar of their own?



Beja and Nubian can be super dark and borderline Nilotic looking but rarely if ever pass as Southerners.

I've actually never seen a Northerner that could pass for a Southerner, except for a very small group of Southern admixed Baggara in Kordofan and Upper Nile.
 
Fallata that far North?

Do they actually have a Dar of their own?
Yup, certainly not Khartoum or Qadarif level but the north has a sizeable fallata community, especially in Dongola. I don't think they have a Dar, it seems they stick to market areas like Copts.
 
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