19th century PL to JL migration

[The Oponian Guild]

I know that some Isaaqs were living in Nairobi at the time Kenya gained independence but I don't know if that was due to migrations or British bringing them in from British Somaliland.

They came with the British.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Also important to note that a lot of the first harti arrivals in kismayo were from sub clans which had suffered from the Dervish wars in the north as well as folks who’s subs were engaged in inter lineage infighting and had grown tired of the carnage.

 

[TheLand]

The land was already claimed by their traditional nemeses, therefore I doubt it would’ve been an attractive offer. Also the isaaq are mentioned as having an innate fear of sailing when compared to the coastal Warsan/MJ subclans in the far north.

That makes sense if you are saying the initial group didn’t come from Berbera. Also what’s the point of living in a place like Berbera and being afraid of sailing. Reminds me of the cadaan trope of blacks being unable to swim

 

[Keep it a boqol]

Why didn’t they travel on foot?

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

Why didn’t they travel on foot?

Some did I believe but Reer bari are experts at seafare it only makes sense they do what they know well

 

[ggoat]

In Jubaland we have always been Harti. The Ugaas of Harti Waamo is Dhulbahante. Harti were in Jubaland 50 years before the rise of the Sayid. Harti came to Jubaland to escape a terrible famine in Bari in the 1860s.

Atrocious Misery
The pastoral tribes of Northern Kenya

How did he become the ugaas?

 

[ggoat]

That makes sense if you are saying the initial group didn’t come from Berbera. Also what’s the point of living in a place like Berbera and being afraid of sailing. Reminds me of the cadaan trope of blacks being unable to swim

This harti thing provides little benefit. Even the Warsangali weren’t seafarers most never ventured beyond eastern Sanaag. That claim is made up. We actually have records on the number of boats in that area during that period. We took part in battles as far south as Mombasa sailing to Kismayo was hardly an impressive feat.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

A good chunk of them also came overland with the other migratory clans.

This is true. There were Carti moving with the Ogaden south up to Wajir. There were Harti fighting alongside the Ugaas of the Tolomoge against the Meru in the foothills of Mt Kenya. Harti also had a couple of wells at Wajir at some point, can't remember where I read that.

The level of asabiyah among Darod has declined a lot over the past 200 years. In those days Darodnimo had actual political meaning in Jubaland. As a clan becomes larger, internal cohesion declines.

 

[iley]

Why didn’t they travel on foot?

Funnily enough, I never thought about them taking a boat. I assumed they traveled on foot too.

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

This is true. There were Carti moving with the Ogaden south up to Wajir. There were Harti fighting alongside the Ugaas of the Tolomoge against the Meru in the foothills of Mt Kenya. Harti also had a couple of wells at Wajir at some point, can't remember where I read that.

The level of asabiyah among Darod has declined a lot over the past 200 years. In those days Darodnimo had actual political meaning in Jubaland. As a clan becomes larger, internal cohesion declines.

Also I would say another factor for the decline could be that such cohesion happens out of necessity and declines when not needed anymore, as if i remember correctly the different migratory darood clans began forming a cohesive unit once they on their own were not able to defeat the wardey. So somali clans would evoke older familiar ties when they had to deal with challenges they on their own couldn't deal with.

 

[iley]

In Jubaland we have always been Harti. The Ugaas of Harti Waamo is Dhulbahante. Harti were in Jubaland 50 years before the rise of the Sayid. Harti came to Jubaland to escape a terrible famine in Bari in the 1860s.

Atrocious Misery
The pastoral tribes of Northern Kenya

Weren't there a lot of Oromos in Jubbaland back then? When we migrated down to Koonfur regions were they gone already or were the Harti folks also involved in kicking them out?

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

This is true. There were Carti moving with the Ogaden south up to Wajir. There were Harti fighting alongside the Ugaas of the Tolomoge against the Meru in the foothills of Mt Kenya. Harti also had a couple of wells at Wajir at some point, can't remember where I read that.

The level of asabiyah among Darod has declined a lot over the past 200 years. In those days Darodnimo had actual political meaning in Jubaland. As a clan becomes larger, internal cohesion declines.

I heard there are even Geri Kombe in wajir south also some Harti are in garissa adan duale met with them

 

[Zak12]

Even the Warsangali weren’t seafarers most never ventured beyond eastern Sanaag.

This isn't true. Warsangali like all clans in the north were practiced seafarers.

This source from the mid 1800s is owed to Captain John Hanning Speke who was in the north for a time and describes that the Warsangeli and Isaaq had sea vessels for travelling to Yemen and conducting warfare at sea:


This source is from an Australian author named Alan Villiers (book: Sons of Sinbad) who seems to write about encountering Somali sailors during the early 1900s who sail and trade in "Somali Sambuks"

This lines up pretty well with how the Warsangeli in the mid 1800s describe a past of competing with Isaaq sailors who did seemingly also exist as early as before 1825-1827 by the looks of it. Then there's this source where the man spent several years in British Somaliland during the late 1800s largely around Berbera from what I recall and he literally defines "Dhow" in his book as:

 

[Throughbred]

This harti thing provides little benefit. Even the Warsangali weren’t seafarers most never ventured beyond eastern Sanaag. That claim is made up. We actually have records on the number of boats in that area during that period. We took part in battles as far south as Mombasa sailing to Kismayo was hardly an impressive feat.

Nonsense. Don't you know Warsangeli Sultanates such as Ali Dable had headquarters as far as Saylac , it's one of the reasons there is Warsangelis in places such as Djibouti and Eriteria.

Ingriiska baa nefis ka hesheen

Spoiler: They saved you

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[Shimbiris]

This isn't true. Warsangali like all clans in the north were practiced seafarers.

Anyone trying to claim Somalis weren't seafarers historically need only go to my Dhow thread to be completely debunked:

Somalis' Sewn-boats

It's very sad that boat-making which was seemingly around as far back as 2,000 years ago based on the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describing "sewn boats" like those of the more recent Indian Ocean being used along the Somali coast...

www.somalispot.com

Absolutely undeniable. Dozens of accounts from Brits, Italians, French, Arabs, Somalis themselves and even bloody Germans...

 

[Zak12]

Anyone trying to claim Somalis weren't seafarers historically need only go to my Dhow thread to be completely debunked:

Somalis' Sewn-boats

It's very sad that boat-making which was seemingly around as far back as 2,000 years ago based on the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describing "sewn boats" like those of the more recent Indian Ocean being used along the Somali coast...

www.somalispot.com

Absolutely undeniable. Dozens of accounts from Brits, Italians, French, Arabs, Somalis themselves and even bloody Germans...

I actually dug deep into older threads from years ago, particularly with that Grant guy and I couldn't believe some actually thought Somalis weren't sailing before the 19th century and only used small rowboats or canoes. There are literal pictures of ships manned by Somalis.

 

[Shimbiris]

I actually dug deep into older threads from years ago, particularly with that Grant guy and I couldn't believe some actually thought Somalis weren't sailing before the 19th century and only used small rowboats or canoes. There are literal pictures of ships manned by Somalis.

Self-hatred from being ethnic minorities raised by sometimes uneducated lower income refugees is a helluva poison.