1977 Jigjiga commemoration
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But he wasn’t intent on wiping Isaaqs out by the time they started the rebellion. all xasuuqs came after disobedience similar occasions happened all across the country notably Mudug Kismayo/JL and Beledweyne. SSDF and SNM started a war to remove MSB for power these rebel groups destroyed the country not realizing that MSB was dying soon regardless
MSB had little regard for civilian casualties thats obvious but niether did his opponents who started war fronts in civilian areas purposefully...
I have nothing against Isaaqs its a very Somali and to an extent human trait, for some reason we tend to defend and associate with our worst figures and movements. MSB destroyed the country but he sure as hell didn’t do it alone and it’s difficult to say if he is most responsible.
I didn’t say WSLF would invade the fear was of Ethiopia obviously.Why would MSB fear WSLF will invade somalia? Wasn't he the one who armed you guys and took part in the creation of the WSLF? It probably has more to do, with pressure on Somalia to stop fighting Ethiopia and housing "rebels". Also your source says that founder of WSLF was only kicked in 1989. That's a long time from 1977. More than 10 years. WSLF and the isaaq were still fighting in 1985 like the aarhawd source says. So basically you guys fucked over the entire nation over whose animals could graze where.
The founder was exiled in 89’ and the group failed to function around that period but it says clearly that the WSLF was not allowed to attack “subsequently after[the war]” it goes on to say “By 1989” it moved to an entirely different time period there, if people want additional sources I can provide. These clans clash and its been going on for centuries its a poor excuse to use for some hatred of “the south”. The point is no self victimization will not be accepted from the Lander SNM extremists nobody was out to get them because of some special deep seeded hatred and they are not innocent little fairy’s slaughtered by the evil demon southern clan
But he wasn’t intent on wiping Isaaqs out by the time they started the rebellion. all xasuuqs came after disobedience similar occasions happened all across the country notably Mudug Kismayo/JL and Beledweyne. SSDF and SNM started a war to remove MSB for power these rebel groups destroyed the country not realizing that MSB was dying soon regardless
MSB had little regard for civilian casualties thats obvious but niether did his opponents who started war fronts in civilian areas purposefully...
View attachment 138067
I have nothing against Isaaqs its a very Somali and to an extent human trait, for some reason we tend to defend and associate with our worst figures and movements. MSB destroyed the country but he sure as hell didn’t do it alone and it’s difficult to say if he is most responsible.
I didn’t say WSLF would invade the fear was of Ethiopia obviously.
The founder was exiled in 89’ and the group failed to function around that period but it says clearly that the WSLF was not allowed to attack “subsequently after[the war]” it goes on to say “By 1989” it moved to an entirely different time period there, if people want additional sources I can provide. These clans clash and its been going on for centuries its a poor excuse to use for some hatred of “the south”. The point is no self victimization will not be accepted from the Lander SNM extremists nobody was out to get them because of some special deep seeded hatred and they are not innocent little fairy’s slaughtered by the evil demon southern clan
"all xasuuqs came after disobedience"
This quote says a lot
- You refer to the opposition to a terrible dictator (which is how many in both the North East, North West and other parts of the country regarded him when the SSDF & SNM started), as "disobedience". Good to know you're a sycophantic supporter of fascism, who believes they should've just "obeyed" a dictator.
- What does it matter when the xasuuq started? The only way it matters is if you think the actions of the SNM justified MSB's plan out to wipe out an entire tribe. Nothing ever justifies attempted genocide.
- To equate what MSB did to the Isaaqs to the northern intra-tribal conflicts that followed is utterly disgusting. It is not worth getting into the detail why they are not even on the same planet. It is clear where your views come from.
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@Django have you bought one of these flags, looks like combination of Somaliland and Somalia flag.
View attachment 138007
the flag was the Ogaden flag rearranged, this somali region flag was the one created by ONLF in 1990 when they controlled the region and created her degmos and provinces
ONLF / Somali region 1990 flag
WSLF Flag
DDSI Flag late 2000s flag
MSB was wrong to bomb innocent civilians. But he is not the only person to blame. The isaaqs brought to Somalia their worst enemy which they just lost a war against. That's what pissed off MSB. It isn't like you guys were peacefully protesting, you started killing people. Also, who the hell pisses off a dictator by bringing in his worst enemy then hides behind the diraac of women and in homes of civilians?
Isaaqs should've tried protesting peacefully and if they rebelled they shouldn't have dispersed within the civlian population and then fired bullets from there. But MSB should not ever have killed that many civilian people and bombed them. That would forever be a wrong thing to do. Tbh he should've made agreements with his fellow somalis and left the kursi.
Tell me, how did protesting peacefully work out for those who opposed Afweyne before. This man imprisoned or executed anyone that opposed him. Including Sheikhs.MSB was wrong to bomb innocent civilians. But he is not the only person to blame. The isaaqs brought to Somalia their worst enemy which they just lost a war against. That's what pissed off MSB. It isn't like you guys were peacefully protesting, you started killing people. Also, who the hell pisses off a dictator by bringing in his worst enemy then hides behind the diraac of women and in homes of civilians?
Isaaqs should've tried protesting peacefully and if they rebelled they shouldn't have dispersed within the civlian population and then fired bullets from there. But MSB should not ever have killed that many civilian people and bombed them. That would forever be a wrong thing to do. Tbh he should've made agreements with his fellow somalis and left the kursi.
He is absolutely the only to blame for bombing, raping, murdering, executing, burning alive, butchering people.
Cabdulaahi Yusuf brought Ethiopians into Somalia, to help him defeat other Somali's. Should we massacre the Majeerteens now? That is the depth of your horrible logic.
If he is the one to blame, then what do you have against the current somalis now? He was a dictator and he is gone. And took the blame to his grave. What are you guys angry about now? Its not like a single qabil came and killed you guys. The dictator is gone, don't be angry with your brothers now.
Where are you getting that I'm angry with Somalis now from? Show me where I have referred to anything other than what happened before 1990? It is clear you have some cuqdad that you are projecting here. Instead of admitting that your initial argument was exposed as flawed and deeply rooted in qabiilist ideology, you come out with unsubstantiated nonsense based on nothing i've said.
Also, unrelated, but what makes us "brothers"?
Islam makes us brothers and many of us are cousins
Sure, absolutely it does. I don't think that is what Bashi was referring though. However, I'll happily admit I was wrong if that is the case.
Not just you, I mean isaaqs in general. They blame qabil, when it was just a dictator who murdered them. If he is gone, what's stopping you guys from reconciling with your brothers. Brothers in Islam, dhiig, dhaqan, and language. it doesn't get closer than that.
How are we cousins
Again that is just your own projection. One you assume to know that I am Isaaq. So just because I am disgusted by what the government of Somalia did (it wasn't just Siyaad), and call it people like you who make excuses for it, I must be Isaaq? This again just confirms that you're entirely consumed by qabiilist Ideology.
Also, who in here is blaming entire qabiil? Again, entirely your own projection. You are the one lumping all Isaaq's together. Yes, there were qabiils who largely supported the government of Somalia's action's in the north, because they either profited it from it or were simply supportive of the government and didn't want it to fall. However, that doesn't mean they were all responsible for it.
Brothers in Islam? yes. Everything else, highly debatable. We were clans who were at constant war with eachother, killing and looting freely, before the colonisation era. Almost nothing united us back then.
Again that is just your own projection. One you assume to know that I am Isaaq. So just because I am disgusted by what the government of Somalia did (it wasn't just Siyaad), and call it people like you who make excuses for it, I must be Isaaq? This again just confirms that you're entirely consumed by qabiilist Ideology.
Also, who in here is blaming entire qabiil? Again, entirely your own projection. You are the one lumping all Isaaq's together. Yes, there were qabiils who largely supported the government of Somalia's action's in the north, because they either profited it from it or were simply supportive of the government and didn't want it to fall. However, that doesn't mean they were all responsible for it.
Brothers in Islam? yes. Everything else, highly debatable. We were clans who were at constant war with eachother, killing and looting freely, before the colonisation era. Almost nothing united us back then.
When I talk about Somaliland, I talk about isaaq. Since you guys are the leaders, and the ones who made this state. You still aren't answering my question. I'm telling you that the government of somalia of old is gone, if this isn't really about qabil, what's stopping you from joining the rest of Somalia? There is no dictator now, and we are moving to democracy. The base somaliland is built on is that isaaqs were slaughtered by southern clans and so any reunion is not possible.
Everything I mentioned isn't debatable. We are one ethnicity, literally one ethnicity. Language is also debatable? Culture is debatable? Any ties humans could have to each other, we have.
Show me one instance within the mountains of evidence around the founding of Somaliland (and the clan conferences that led to it), that says as you put it "The base somaliland is built on is that isaaqs were slaughtered by southern clans and so any reunion is not possible."
The xasuuq that happened to the Isaaq is not the reason why Somaliland took back its Independence, and it has never been. Some Isaaq's may understandably point to it as to why they in partitcular never want a reunification with Somalia again, but it was never a basis of the declaration of Somaliland's independence in May 1991. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'll be happy to be proved wrong.
This is simply another product of your qabiilist ideology making assumptions again.
The Camels of Cal madow
Porcupine and proud
Isaaqs did peacefully protest in February 1982 in the Dhagax Tuur incident when 10 doctors were arrested and sentenced at first to death then imprisonment for cleaning up the hospital which embarrassed the government. They shot and the students in hargeisa and burco who then threw rocks. 300 students were taken in and some were executed. This caused the SNM to gain more support.MSB was wrong to bomb innocent civilians. But he is not the only person to blame. The isaaqs brought to Somalia their worst enemy which they just lost a war against. That's what pissed off MSB. It isn't like you guys were peacefully protesting, you started killing people. Also, who the hell pisses off a dictator by bringing in his worst enemy then hides behind the diraac of women and in homes of civilians?
Isaaqs should've tried protesting peacefully and if they rebelled they shouldn't have dispersed within the civlian population and then fired bullets from there. But MSB should not ever have killed that many civilian people and bombed them. That would forever be a wrong thing to do. Tbh he should've made agreements with his fellow somalis and left the kursi.
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