Federalism is the way to go!

SomaliWadaniSoldier · Aug 23, 2019

@Diaspora ambassador the warriorclans reside mostly in the south. Even the north agrees to that.
Even snm praises guriceel clan for crushing the old regime.
Southern D*R*D, H*, R* are all strong.
I hate to be harsh but in the north they cant fight for shit(except Caare and Cirro's subclan)

Diaspora ambassador · Aug 23, 2019

SomaliWadaniSoldier said:
@Diaspora ambassador the warriorclans reside mostly in the south. Even the north agrees to that.
Even snm praises guriceel clan for crushing the old regime.
Southern D*R*D, H*, R* are all strong.
I hate to be harsh but in the north they cant fight for shit(except Caare and Cirro's subclan)

But they can't unite tho

Tukraq · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
We also have to take geopolitics into account.

A federal Somalia might be a slightly more Democratic place but we'd end up weaker as a whole.

If we didn't have hyenas all around our borders I would prefer a confederation like Switzerland.

Hyenas would have it easier under centralism just buy out guys like farmaajo as they have done, this can be implemented with any president, but do to his little control over federal states these foreign hyenas agendas are not coming into fruition

Tukraq · Aug 23, 2019

SomaliWadaniSoldier said:
Iam not talking now.

But iam certain that a coalition of Southern D*R*D, H*W*Y and R*X*W*Y*N can subjugate Puntland and Somaliland in the future.

If these southern clans work good together, they can capture the northern regions and bring back centralism.

The True Somali Fighting spirit is in the south.

Hawiye is now on PLs side as are most southern daarod, don’t know about raxweyns opinion having never met one, central gov is now confined to a bunker in a city that doesn’t even want them lol

Ras · Aug 23, 2019

Tukraq said:
Hyenas would have it easier under centralism just buy out guys like farmaajo as they have done, this can be implemented with any president, but do to his little control over federal states these foreign hyenas agendas are not coming into fruition

Who put Farmaajo in charge in the first place? Your vote?

Do you think the population would vote in a compromised politician?

It's all a out who has the mandate to rule. The more it's split up the lower its value.

People like Khayre and Hassan Sheikh got the job because foreigners control the election.

A one person per vote would mean the population would scrutinize every candidate and if they sell out it'll be their last term.

Right now there's no term limit as long as you continue to appease your foreign masters.

A centralized government with proper elections could guard against that but not when you have dozens of elections and more people we have to watch out for.

Even if most are wadani the few that aren't could easily create obstacles like we have right now with the constitution discussions.

Let's consolidate power first because we need to move fast to solve our countless issues.

A committee of squabbling equals won't get as much done as a single cabinet under one elected leaders with the mandate.

Tukraq · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
Who put Farmaajo in charge in the first place? Your vote?

Do you think the population would vote in a compromised politician?

People like Khayre and Hassan Sheikh got the job because foreigners control the election.

A one person per vote would mean the population would scrutinize every candidate and if they sell out it'll be their last term.

Right now there's no term limit as long as you continue to appease your foreign masters.

A centralized government with proper elections could guard against that but not when you have dozens of elections and more people we have to watch out for.

Even if most are wadani the few that aren't could easily create obstacles like we have right now with the constitution discussions.

I like the voting concept but under a federalist system like the US not a centralized system

Ras · Aug 23, 2019

Tukraq said:
I like the voting concept but under a federalist system like the US not a centralized system

Please elaborate.

Crow · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
Who put Farmaajo in charge in the first place? Your vote?

Do you think the population would vote in a compromised politician?

It's all a out who has the mandate to rule. The more it's split up the lower its value.

People like Khayre and Hassan Sheikh got the job because foreigners control the election.

A one person per vote would mean the population would scrutinize every candidate and if they sell out it'll be their last term.

Right now there's no term limit as long as you continue to appease your foreign masters.

A centralized government with proper elections could guard against that but not when you have dozens of elections and more people we have to watch out for.

Even if most are wadani the few that aren't could easily create obstacles like we have right now with the constitution discussions.

Let's consolidate power first because we need to move fast to solve our countless issues.

A committee of squabbling equals won't get as much done as a single cabinet under one elected leaders with the mandate.

One person one vote will never come to Somalia while Al Shabaab continues to exist. Centralization under a single, all-powerful Qatari government - which is what Farmajo and Kheyre are fighting for - would be catastrophic.

Tukraq · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
Please elaborate.

I think we should have national 1 man 1 vote elected president and 2 parliaments with MPs from both states representing the states equally in one and population wise in the other so everyone is represented(senate and congress), then having the states also have 1 man 1 vote so even inter state representation reflects the people, this thus give the people the most control

Ras · Aug 23, 2019

Tukraq said:
I think we should have national 1 man 1 vote elected president and 2 parliaments with MPs from both states representing the states equally in one and population wise in the other so everyone is represented(senate and congress), then having the states also have 1 man 1 vote so even inter state representation reflects the people, this thus give the people the most control

Everyone agrees that's a good way to organize it but the question here is how much power do the states have?

Psuedo sovereign confederates each with their own foreign affairs policies and ambassadors like we have today?

The American system is a lot different to what most the proponents for Somali federalism propose.

California can't host a Chinese military base.

Gabz19988 · Aug 23, 2019

Federalism is necessary for the time being. Long term centralism is the goal inshallah

Farm · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
Everyone agrees that's a good way to organize it but the question here is how much power do the states have?

Psuedo sovereign confederates each with their own foreign affairs policies and ambassadors like we have today?

The American system is a lot different to what most the proponents for Somali federalism propose.

California can't host a Chinese military base.

The problem is the FGS refuses to complete the constitution hence why every state acts like independent states there is no constitution to reference.... this is purely the fault of Mogadishu they clearly prefer anarchy and lawlessness so we will act like our own states.

Tukraq · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
Everyone agrees that's a good way to organize it but the question here is how much power do the states have?

Psuedo sovereign confederates each with their own foreign affairs policies and ambassadors like we have today?

The American system is a lot different to what most the proponents for Somali federalism propose.

California can't host a Chinese military base.

Today galmudug said no Amisom against fgs wishes very similar to when California said no ICE against the feds wishes and kicked them out, US feds and states have equal power balance as it should be, the senate and house was designed to be hard to pass bills and be in constant gridlock why? To make sure no one group has easy and total power, in Somalia I think the president should have less power than the states and be more of a figure head, allow the elected MPs in the two houses to pass all bills and states control their own spheres locally internally

Ras · Aug 23, 2019

Farm said:
The problem is the FGS refuses to complete the constitution hence why every state acts like independent states there is no constitution to reference.... this is purely the fault of Mogadishu they clearly prefer anarchy and lawlessness so we will act like our own states.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The states should've come together and decided on their own proposal for a constitution for the sake of the country.

Instead those warlords are using the incompetence of Xamar to excuse their own incompetence.

However let's take OP's question out of the context of Somalia's political situation today.

IMO one person one vote elections will come (hopefully clean one) and these rats will go; leaving us with the opportunity to decide on how we plan to govern Somalia in the future.

Tukraq · Aug 23, 2019

I’ve said this before, we’re currently politically at the same stage as early America before the constitutional conventions, the my also pretty much had the same balance of power issues between states, and debates on centralism and federalism where the founding fathers wrote papers arguing each other about it, they came together and brought delegates from each state to resolve this and right a perfectly balanced system of governance, we need to do the same and write a constitution ensuring state and mp balance and a supreme court

Thegoodshepherd · Aug 23, 2019

RasCanjero said:
We also have to take geopolitics into account.

A federal Somalia might be a slightly more Democratic place but we'd end up weaker as a whole.

If we didn't have hyenas all around our borders I would prefer a confederation like Switzerland.

There are no hyenas all around us. Ethiopia and Kenya are fairly strong for African states but they are quite fragile by international standards. Both also have large numbers of Somalis who have a fertility rate that matches Niger. They should be more afraid of us than we are of them. I doubt that either could operate in Somalia if they did not have a faction bring them in.

Any attempt at creating a centralized state in Somalia will not create such a state, but it will destroy any legitimacy that remains in Mogadishu.

Futurist · Aug 24, 2019

Independence for Somaliland

Federalism for the rest

Federalism is the way to go!

Which do you prefer?

Centralised Government

Federalism

SomaliWadaniSoldier

Weeping for the Nation of 68

Diaspora ambassador

''Dagaalka gala'' Garaad Jaamac Garaad Cali

Tukraq

Tukraq

Ras

It's all so tiresome

Tukraq

Ras

It's all so tiresome

Crow

Make Hobyo Great Again

Tukraq

Ras

It's all so tiresome

Gabz19988

Farm

Tukraq

Ras

It's all so tiresome

Tukraq

Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood

Futurist

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