Would Somalia be better off with city states?

A_A · May 22, 2019

Lolalola said:
View attachment 72730

We gotta make Adam's World a thing again.

I cried when I rewatched that episode with alphabets, too.

Do you remember that episode where his sister wanted to book a flight to Jennah??

Some people get nostalgic for Spongebob, but me? Adam's World all the way.

WALLAHI YES FAM I GET TEARY EYED WHEN I SEE IT

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

city states are too small

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

AussieHustler said:
As long as these City States are organised along clan line how will they be different than the contemporary clan states? Only an economic miracle can rectify and solve the situation. When everyone is pleased with h/her economic situation, they will pool their allegiances and give to one authority. The clan and agents of instability would disappear because no one wants to rock the boat. Whatever system you try will fail till the majority of people lack economic self sufficiency.

even with self sufficiency economically your forgetting about something more important and thats power

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

Ken Kaneki said:
Somalia will never improve. Let's not delude ourselves. A place that does not value education and has tons of backwards people living in it will never improve. Cultural revolution needed asap.

Hope this helps

education isn't that important, but your from France so I can see why you'd have that viewpoint where they venerate "intellectuals" who are pretty much just nobody with some useless degree who talk a big game on tv but really have little to no important impact

Life · May 22, 2019

Lolalola said:
No, of course not. Name me a single Islamic country that forces its citizens to convert to Islam. That's 100% haram and explicitly forbidden in our faith. If they aren't Muslim (not counting apostates), Islamically all they're required to do is pay jizya (a tax). They aren't required to fight jihad or pay zakat as they aren't Muslim, so the jizya makes up for that. In a proper Sharia-adhering nation, non-Muslims are welcomed to practice their faith so as long as they don't preach in the streets trying to convert or anything of that sort.

I didn't say forced to convert rather forced to follow religious regulation meaning following rules in our religion like for example that alcohol should be illegal since it is haram? or that they are not allowed to eat pork because we are not.

So you're telling me that a native person has to pay jizya. You obviously don't know Somalis then. What Somali in their right mind would pay jizya to receive equal protection in their native land?

And also, what makes you think that people will be okay with that. Some are allowed to preach and others aren't??

Lolalola said:
Yes, but most of the people on this website are a mixture between traditional and westernized, murtad and Muslim - the difference is nowhere near as pronounced in the motherland.

I disagree - Somalia is a fairly homogeneous country when it comes to religion, it's only qabiil that sets us apart. Somalis all follow the same religion [Islam], the same sect [Sunni], and the same school of law [Shafi'i]. Sure, there are certainly outliers here and there, but virtually all of the population falls under the labels I've just listed.

No, it's not, most Somalis identify themselves as Sunni Muslim because, in reality, they don't have as much knowledge of Islam that we do. That is why in the west you will find some nuance within the Somali Muslim community. Just a couple of decades ago Somalis weren't even wearing hijab and practising their religion properly and now they do mostly out of fear of al-Shabab. If peace is restored and Somalia and the population are better read into religion then they will probably come to their true senses and only then can you assume the true figure.

Again, you are overestimating Somalis wallahi. We don't all have the same view on religion and like I tried to explain there are different sects which means there will be disagreement regarding religion. Just take it out of the equation Most Muslim countries have a tendency to mistreat their non-muslim citizen or the Muslim who follow a minority sect. Which is not fair.

Religion is a personal thing and the government shouldn't intervene. They should be objective and be as little involved in peoples personal life.

Samaalic Era · May 22, 2019

Life said:
I didn't say forced to convert rather forced to follow religious regulation meaning following rules in our religion like for example that alcohol should be illegal since it is haram? or that they are not allowed to eat pork because we are not.

So you're telling me that a native person has to pay jizya. You obviously don't know Somalis then. What Somali in their right mind would pay jizya to receive equal protection in their native land?

And also, what makes you think that people will be okay with that. Some are allowed to preach and others aren't??

No, it's not, most Somalis identify themselves as Sunni Muslim because, in reality, they don't have as much knowledge of Islam that we do. That is why in the west you will find some nuance within the Somali Muslim community. Just a couple of decades ago Somalis weren't even wearing hijab and practising their religion properly and now they do mostly out of fear of al-Shabab. If peace is restored and Somalia and the population are better read into religion then they will probably come to their true senses and only then can you assume the true figure.

Again, you are overestimating Somalis wallahi. We don't all have the same view on religion and like I tried to explain there are different sects which means there will be disagreement regarding religion. Just take it out of the equation Most Muslim countries have a tendency to mistreat their non-muslim citizen or the Muslim who follow a minority sect. Which is not fair.

Religion is a personal thing and the government shouldn't intervene. They should be objective and be as little involved in peoples personal life.

All Somali gaalo are apostates who left Islam or their parents did. You will never find a Somali who is a gaal by 3 generations.

To be a Somali citizen is to be Muslim aswell. To forfeit Islam is to give being a Somali

Life · May 22, 2019

Samaalic Era said:
All Somali gaalo are apostates who left Islam or their parents did. You will never find a Somali who is a gaal by 3 generations.

To be a Somali citizen is to be Muslim aswell. To forfeit Islam is to give being a Somali

Never say never and This is the reason as to why I don't believe we should be a theocracy, saying that you can't be a citizen in my OWN native country just because someone doesn't adhere to the same religion as you, is fucking insane. f*ck qabil, the next civil war in Somalia is going to be about religion if we go down this road.

AussieHustler · May 22, 2019

Tukraq said:
even with self sufficiency economically your forgetting about something more important and thats power

@Tukraq

If people are economically well off, they tend to get along better and creative a cohesive stable environment than where poverty reigns like in Somalia and each person is seeking to survive by any means necessary. When the majority are well off, they will establish a system and delegate their loyalty towards an authority that establishes the institutions and structures necessary for a State to function. Bill Clinton quipped once, ‘it’s the economy stupid’.

SomaliSteel · May 22, 2019

We would be swallowed up by the bigger states like Ethiopia and Kenya which are set to have population explosions. The economies would be way too small as well.

Ken Kaneki · May 22, 2019

Tukraq said:
education isn't that important, but your from France so I can see why you'd have that viewpoint where they venerate "intellectuals" who are pretty much just nobody with some useless degree who talk a big game on tv but really have little to no important impact

It's time we accept that Somalia needs a cultural revolution. The people don't value education and send their kids to school at the ages of 11 or 12 after they've completed the Quran. Engineering degrees, Medical degrees or even studying economics allows for a society to improve. Education is the way

Ken Kaneki · May 22, 2019

Samaalic Era said:
All Somali gaalo are apostates who left Islam or their parents did. You will never find a Somali who is a gaal by 3 generations.

To be a Somali citizen is to be Muslim aswell. To forfeit Islam is to give being a Somali

That literally does not make any sense. If someone has hundreds of years of Somali heritage in them they are Somali. Religion does not define your ethnicity. What a weird claim.

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

AussieHustler said:
@Tukraq

If people are economically well off, they tend to get along better and creative a cohesive stable environment than where poverty reigns like in Somalia and each person is seeking to survive by any means necessary. When the majority are well off, they will establish a system and delegate their loyalty towards an authority that establishes the institutions and structures necessary for a State to function. Bill Clinton quipped once, ‘it’s the economy stupid’.

Definantly not power is more important I’m sorry but there’s no amount of money that can be paid for me to lose that

AussieHustler · May 22, 2019

Tukraq said:
Definantly not power is more important I’m sorry but there’s no amount of money that can be paid for me to lose that

@Tukraq

Waryaa, slow down with the spliffs, you've no power.

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

AussieHustler said:
@Tukraq

Waryaa, slow down with the spliffs, you've no power.

In America everyone has equal power so it’s a different system

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

Ken Kaneki said:
It's time we accept that Somalia needs a cultural revolution. The people don't value education and send their kids to school at the ages of 11 or 12 after they've completed the Quran. Engineering degrees, Medical degrees or even studying economics allows for a society to improve. Education is the way

Thing is those degrees don’t always bring better results than completing the Quran, from that you can open a dugsi than another, after a couple of years you may own a chain of dugsis and mosques and vastly out earning engineers and doctors who honestly don’t Make that much, education past the basics is overrated where your filling your head with information that you will never need and wasting that precious time when you could have been productive working and making a profit, but I can see you’ve been conditioned by the “education” propaganda

AussieHustler · May 22, 2019

Tukraq said:
In America everyone has equal power so it’s a different system

@Tukraq

Yep, you and your neighbour in Seattle, Bill Gates have equal power in America. He's got one vote and you have got one vote. That is where power starts and ends. Now, go and have another bong.

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

AussieHustler said:
@Tukraq

Yep, you and your neighbour in Seattle, Bill Gates have equal power in America. He's got one vote and you have got one vote. That is where power starts and ends. Now, go and have another bong.

That’s true I have equal power with bill gates tbh and it’s not just the equal voting power but also equal laws and rights he and I cannot can’t enfringe on

AussieHustler · May 22, 2019

Tukraq said:
That’s true I have equal power with bill gates tbh and it’s not just the equal voting power but also equal laws and rights he and I cannot can’t enfringe on

@Tukraq

You still believe what they told you in Utanga? Do you really think that you've an equal chance of acquittal with Bill Gates if you two broke the same law?

Anyway, this thread is about what type of governance that is suitable to Somalia, even political philosophers like Aristotle who lived in the Greek City States have eloquently pointed and advocated for the influences of the "middle classes" to advance social cohesion and stability. Let's not derail the thread. I'm out.

Tukraq · May 22, 2019

AussieHustler said:
@Tukraq

You still believe what they told you in Utanga? Do you really think that you've an equal chance of acquittal with Bill Gates if you two broke the same law?

Anyway, this thread is about what type of governance that is suitable to Somalia, even political philosophers like Aristotle who lived in the Greek City States have eloquently pointed and advocated for the influences of the "middle classes" to advance social cohesion and stability. Let's not derail the thread. I'm out.

Yeah pretty much the same, I guess he can higher a better lawyer or pay bail earlier but if we both did the same crime we’d have an equal chance being behind bars which is why in America the rich get locked up if they do crimes also

Libaaxseendheer · May 22, 2019

I for one do advocate for a confederation of loosely bound autonomous states, although i see the appeal of a unified country

Would Somalia be better off with city states?

A_A

Islamic Fanfiction Writer

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