Somali elder says 100k for his daughter nothing less in the middle of meher dispute

VixR said:

Even if I granted you that (I disagree on men being any less self-absorbed than women the tribe is a male-oriented entity so their investment in it is merely an extension of their self-status), information and facts aren’t subject to subjective feelings.

The question here was one of either they’re inbred and could use genetic variation, or not. My perspective says yes. It doesn’t matter if your values say intermixing is devil, in reality it’s a necessity. Goldman inadvertently ended up arguing my point for me. Logic will win wherever there are facts available, regardless of subjective interest.

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VixR said:

Even if I granted you that (I disagree on men being any less self-absorbed than women the tribe is a male-oriented entity so their investment in it is merely an extension of their self-status), information and facts aren’t subject to subjective feelings.

The question here was one of either they’re inbred and could use genetic variation, or not. My perspective says yes. It doesn’t matter if your values say intermixing is devil, in reality it’s a necessity. Goldman inadvertently ended up arguing my point for me. Logic will win wherever there are facts available, regardless of subjective interest.

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GoldmanSachs said:

There was an apparent contradiction in your view. Throughout your posts you've argued the standard trope of how you can tell clans by phenotype, and you claim that you must have a recent Arab ancestor because of how your family looks. Your certainly entitled to those views and I have no interest in debating them.

But then here you are advocating heavily for interracial marriage and now acknowledging that Somalis are indeed genetically similar in order to bolster your argument? I just found this contradiction in your thoughts/beliefs interesting. That's all.

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VixR said:

I’ve never made an absolute claim like that. I can’t tell a person’s clan by phenotype. All I said was there seem to be some differences to an extent in different tribal populations. It’s not a contradiction to say that and opine that there’s inbreeding within tribal population vs cross tribally, and thus less homogeneity cross-tribally, it actually supports it and the view for more genetic variation.

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GoldmanSachs said:

The problem with that is, there is overwhelming documentation and evidence to the contrary and that clan "exogamy" was the norm practiced by the nomads. But even if that weren't the case, then why the need for interracial marriage when interqabil achieves the same purpose as far as genetic diversity is concerned while having none of the drawbacks that are common to most interracial couplings?

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RasCanjero said:

Wasn't actually following your debate with him. Just seen a multi page debate and felt bad for the dude.

Btw don't want to get too much into it since I'm far too sober for philosophy but quite a lot of ideas that we call fact aren't absolute truths or as objective as we think.

For example the point you brought up about marrying out would do good for our genetic health.

That definitely makes sense but a Somali guy doesn't see it as benefitting his people when Somali women do it.

Mixed kids from Somali mother's aren't seen as fully Somali or a tribe member but instead as a loss.

That truth only applies when it comes to Somali guys bringing in genetic diversity into the tribe.

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Apollo said:

Put your meher into crypto, you will be a millionaire (in today's terms, inflation-adjusted) within a few decades.

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VixR said:

“No truths/facts are absolute” OR “Most truths/facts are not absolute” are not philosophical rabbit holes I want to go down

Many truths are absolute, and others need to be for functionality and our own sanity.

In fact, the example you outlined is just another case where there’s a objective/absolute truth on one hand, and a subjective feeling on the other. It’s pure science.

Genetic variation is important. The truth is, it doesn’t matter where the variation is coming from, and if anything, there are different types of variation which are distinct. MtDNA which you get exclusively from your mother, and YDNA from the father.

Whether a Somali guy sees it as benefiting his people when Somali women do it is irrelevant, because regardless of what he thinks, as a matter of fact, it is benefiting them.

Somali women aren’t even seen as tribe members to begin with, which is why their mixed kids are seen as “a loss”. But whatever they think, the products of that are in fact half-Somali.

They’re hybrids whether it’s the mother or the father who’s the contributing Somali parent.

That’s the absolute truth.

Since you felt bad for the dude, I hope you know that I’m not holding you or anyone hostage.

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VixR said:

“No truths/facts are absolute” OR “Most truths/facts are not absolute” are not philosophical rabbit holes I want to go down

Many truths are absolute, and others need to be for functionality and our own sanity.

In fact, the example you outlined is just another case where there’s a objective/absolute truth on one hand, and a subjective feeling on the other. It’s pure science.

Genetic variation is important. The truth is, it doesn’t matter where the variation is coming from, and if anything, there are different types of variation which are distinct. MtDNA which you get exclusively from your mother, and YDNA from the father.

Whether a Somali guy sees it as benefiting his people when Somali women do it is irrelevant, because regardless of what he thinks, as a matter of fact, it is benefiting them.

Somali women aren’t even seen as tribe members to begin with, which is why their mixed kids are seen as “a loss”. But whatever they think, the products of that are in fact half-Somali.

They’re hybrids whether it’s the mother or the father who’s the contributing Somali parent.

That’s the absolute truth.

Since you felt bad for the dude, I hope you know that I’m not holding you or anyone hostage.

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VixR said:

Whether a Somali guy sees it as benefiting his people when Somali women do it is irrelevant, because regardless of what he thinks, as a matter of fact, it is benefiting them.

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RasCanjero said:

The objective truth was that genetic diversity is good (in this case when Somali women marry out? Good for who exactly?

How does that convince him or any Somali man when another tribe is seeing the benefit of it instead of theirs?

That brings me back to my original point to close this off...




Don't you realize that you're seeing things from another point of view regardless of how correct that view is in your mind.

It's the same for the guy.

Both think their worldview is correct and their views are based on what they consider as absolute truths in their own world's...Hence the Venus & Mars reference.

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VixR said:

Good for the offspring, and the population at large (Objective). “Bad” according to himself and himself alone in his own self-made narrative (Subjective).

Venus and Mars is pseudoscience. Sure, there’s the subjective, but regardless of your gender or amalgamation of experiences, the objective reality will always trump it.

I may think something that is proved to be a positive is a negative, but that doesn’t make it a negative just because I subjectively believe it is.

You somehow can’t see that you’re coming from a subjective standpoint, and not an objective truth, even though this is one of those absolute truths that are empirically provable, and not subject to the philosophical position of no absolutes that you proposed.

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