We need a monarchy

[Abaq]

The Somali state has been a failure since 1960 contrary to most people’s belief it failed in 1991. The failure of 1960 was what led to the Kacaan of 1969 which was meant to address the problems the country had. The “solution” ended up being worse than the problem and eventually failed in 1991. Since then, Somalis have been trying to fix their failed state but every strategy has failed. I argue the reason for that is simple, the original formation of the state was doomed to fail.

In 1960 Somalis inherited a European state given a veneer of Somalinimo. All state institutions and organs were modelled on the European states. The only thing Somali about the 1960 state were the names of the officials running it (they too were European on the inside as they were nearly all educated and indoctrinated by the Europeans hence why they even dressed like them). This enforced state structure was totally alien to Somali norms and ways of living. This is why I term it the Madhalays or infertile republic. Ultimately this alien state structure just wouldn’t work and ended in abject failure.

For Somalia to be a normal country, we need to stop arguing about peripheral matters such as the powers of the states vs centre, and ask ourselves more fundamental questions. We need to go back to the drawing board. We need to reject the European state model that was imposed upon us in 1960 by the colonisers and decide upon a state structure in line with our culture, norms, and history. To do that, we need to return to the state structure that existed prior to colonisation and then upgrade it to fit with the modern world.

Somalia is a clan-based society. No matter how much those that have been indoctrinated by European philosophy argue, qabiil is not going away. It is an integral part of our psyche and social fabric. To be Somali is to be a part of the Somali clan system, no ifs no buts.

Prior to colonisation, the Somali peninsula was divided into a variety of organic, stable clan-based fiefdoms and sultanates with varying degrees of power and autonomy. No matter how much power they were able to project, they all had legitimacy in the eyes of their subjects. Even though only one family had the right to inherit the tribal crown, all other subclans were willing to accept their legitimacy to rule in exchange for being part of the ruling councils. The qabiil monarchs reigned, but it was actually their subclan councils that ruled. What we need to do, is return to these clan based territories and unite them on the national level.

We need a return of the Ogaden sultanate in Jubaland, the Eelaay Kingdom of KG, the Hiraab Imamate, the Xawaadle Ugasate, the Majeerteen sultanate, the Warsangeli Sultanate, the Dhulbahante Garadate, and the Iiddoor sultanate under Habar Yonis. Then we need a confederal monarchy similar to the UAE where we will decide what powers and responsibilities to share on the national level (defence, foreign policy etc). How each qabiil monarchy runs its territory outside of that will be down to them. If the Warsangeli sultanate decide to opt for a constitutional monarchy with democratic elections every 5 years, that’s up to them. If the Ogaden Sultanate decide to slash taxes and open up to foreign trade and investment and lease their islands, that’s their prerogative.

Some tribal areas will naturally refuse to join sultanates they were previously apart of prior to colonisation such as Habar Gidir and the Majeerteen sultanate. That is fine. Habar Gedir territory will be declared a tribal area and they can decide how they want to structure their area. They can share it amicably or fight a 100 year war. Point is, it won’t affect the rest of us.

 

[Abaq]

The borders of the clan-based monarchies will be those prior to colonisation. If a particular clan’s territory is currently occupied by another clan monarchy, they will have to negotiate an agreement or the offending clan monarchy will be sanctioned by the rest of the confederation. I admit this will be a thorny issue and the biggest obstacle to overcome. But once it is done, I believe we will finally have a stable country that we are all somewhat content with.

One argument against this will be how will the subclans accept one subclan ruling over the rest. I retort with they have accepted such an arrangement for centuries. Bah Dir ruled the Majeerteen sultanate for generations and the other subclans submitted. The reason for this is power was always shared. While the monarch reigned, his council of elders made up of the subclans were the ones that actually made the decisions.

 

[محمود فارح]

The Somali state has been a failure since 1960 contrary to most people’s belief it failed in 1991. The failure of 1960 was what led to the Kacaan of 1969 which was meant to address the problems the country had. The “solution” ended up being worse than the problem and eventually failed in 1991. Since then, Somalis have been trying to fix their failed state but every strategy has failed. I argue the reason for that is simple, the original formation of the state was doomed to fail.

In 1960 Somalis inherited a European state given a veneer of Somalinimo. All state institutions and organs were modelled on the European states. The only thing Somali about the 1960 state were the names of the officials running it (they too were European on the inside as they were nearly all educated and indoctrinated by the Europeans hence why they even dressed like them). This enforced state structure was totally alien to Somali norms and ways of living. This is why I term it the Madhalays or infertile republic. Ultimately this alien state structure just wouldn’t work and ended in abject failure.

For Somalia to be a normal country, we need to stop arguing about peripheral matters such as the powers of the states vs centre, and ask ourselves more fundamental questions. We need to go back to the drawing board. We need to reject the European state model that was imposed upon us in 1960 by the colonisers and decide upon a state structure in line with our culture, norms, and history. To do that, we need to return to the state structure that existed prior to colonisation and then upgrade it to fit with the modern world.

Somalia is a clan-based society. No matter how much those that have been indoctrinated by European philosophy argue, qabiil is not going away. It is an integral part of our psyche and social fabric. To be Somali is to be a part of the Somali clan system, no ifs no buts.

Prior to colonisation, the Somali peninsula was divided into a variety of organic, stable clan-based fiefdoms and sultanates with varying degrees of power and autonomy. No matter how much power they were able to project, they all had legitimacy in the eyes of their subjects. Even though only one family had the right to inherit the tribal crown, all other subclans were willing to accept their legitimacy to rule in exchange for being part of the ruling councils. The qabiil monarchs reigned, but it was actually their subclan councils that ruled. What we need to do, is return to these clan based territories and unite them on the national level.

We need a return of the Ogaden sultanate in Jubaland, the Eelaay Kingdom of KG, the Hiraab Imamate, the Xawaadle Ugasate, the Majeerteen sultanate, the Warsangeli Sultanate, the Dhulbahante Garadate, and the Iiddoor sultanate under Habar Yonis. Then we need a confederal monarchy similar to the UAE where we will decide what powers and responsibilities to share on the national level (defence, foreign policy etc). How each qabiil monarchy runs its territory outside of that will be down to them. If the Warsangeli sultanate decide to opt for a constitutional monarchy with democratic elections every 5 years, that’s up to them. If the Ogaden Sultanate decide to slash taxes and open up to foreign trade and investment and lease their islands, that’s their prerogative.

Some tribal areas will naturally refuse to join sultanates they were previously apart of prior to colonisation such as Habar Gidir and the Majeerteen sultanate. That is fine. Habar Gedir territory will be declared a tribal area and they can decide how they want to structure their area. They can share it amicably or fight a 100 year war. Point is, it won’t affect the rest of us.

I've thought about that too

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Abaq I Am neo traditionalist in my political philosophy I believe fully that local systems that locals know and trust must be used as government. We need to modernize it only. China took communism and made it compliment Chinese culture, fuedal order, history, and their values.

I'm only a federalist cause I'm choosing between a nitemare such as centralism but in my heart I believe in local solutions and models and if a local model isnt agreed to at least foreign models need to be crafted to compliment somali culture(wada tashi value such as sub clan councils)and clan identity as that is our social class system not feudalism where their identity is tied to whats their job or occupation.

 

[Abaq]

@Abaq I Am neo traditionalist in my political philosophy I believe fully that local systems that locals know and trust must be used as government. We need to modernize it only. China took communism and made it compliment Chinese culture, fuedal order, history, and their values.

I'm only a federalist cause I'm choosing between a nitemare such as centralism but in my heart I believe in local solutions and models and if a local model isnt agreed to at least foreign models need to be crafted to compliment somali culture(wada tashi value such as sub clan councils)and clan identity as that is our social class system not feudalism where their identity is tied to whats their job or occupation.

Somalis have been going in circles for 70 years with no results. I alluded to this in my other post who is a somali. The reason is that modern Somalis are a victim of the ideological assault from the West. They have been led to believe that they have no indigenous solutions to their problems and that they have to look for all solutions from the West. When the fact is our ancestors had homegrown solutions to all our problems prior to colonialism. We are not starting with a clean slate

That is why we are asking ourselves silly questions such who is a somali at this day and age. We need to look back to our ancestors for our solutions, not across the oceans because they just won’t work as 70 years of failure has taught us

 

[Yazi]

I'm all for it if the royal family comes from Isaaq otherwise I'm happy with the statues quo. No Faqash will ever rule us again.

 

[Burqad]

Somalis are all either Hussanids or Aqilids, so obviously we need to bring a Hassanid Moroccan prince and make him king. Otherwise we can give a random Harari or Argoba a turban and claim they are long-lost descendants of the Walashmas.

 

[Zak12]

The Somali state has been a failure since 1960 contrary to most people’s belief it failed in 1991. The failure of 1960 was what led to the Kacaan of 1969 which was meant to address the problems the country had. The “solution” ended up being worse than the problem and eventually failed in 1991. Since then, Somalis have been trying to fix their failed state but every strategy has failed. I argue the reason for that is simple, the original formation of the state was doomed to fail.

In 1960 Somalis inherited a European state given a veneer of Somalinimo. All state institutions and organs were modelled on the European states. The only thing Somali about the 1960 state were the names of the officials running it (they too were European on the inside as they were nearly all educated and indoctrinated by the Europeans hence why they even dressed like them). This enforced state structure was totally alien to Somali norms and ways of living. This is why I term it the Madhalays or infertile republic. Ultimately this alien state structure just wouldn’t work and ended in abject failure.

For Somalia to be a normal country, we need to stop arguing about peripheral matters such as the powers of the states vs centre, and ask ourselves more fundamental questions. We need to go back to the drawing board. We need to reject the European state model that was imposed upon us in 1960 by the colonisers and decide upon a state structure in line with our culture, norms, and history. To do that, we need to return to the state structure that existed prior to colonisation and then upgrade it to fit with the modern world.

Somalia is a clan-based society. No matter how much those that have been indoctrinated by European philosophy argue, qabiil is not going away. It is an integral part of our psyche and social fabric. To be Somali is to be a part of the Somali clan system, no ifs no buts.

Prior to colonisation, the Somali peninsula was divided into a variety of organic, stable clan-based fiefdoms and sultanates with varying degrees of power and autonomy. No matter how much power they were able to project, they all had legitimacy in the eyes of their subjects. Even though only one family had the right to inherit the tribal crown, all other subclans were willing to accept their legitimacy to rule in exchange for being part of the ruling councils. The qabiil monarchs reigned, but it was actually their subclan councils that ruled. What we need to do, is return to these clan based territories and unite them on the national level.

We need a return of the Ogaden sultanate in Jubaland, the Eelaay Kingdom of KG, the Hiraab Imamate, the Xawaadle Ugasate, the Majeerteen sultanate, the Warsangeli Sultanate, the Dhulbahante Garadate, and the Iiddoor sultanate under Habar Yonis. Then we need a confederal monarchy similar to the UAE where we will decide what powers and responsibilities to share on the national level (defence, foreign policy etc). How each qabiil monarchy runs its territory outside of that will be down to them. If the Warsangeli sultanate decide to opt for a constitutional monarchy with democratic elections every 5 years, that’s up to them. If the Ogaden Sultanate decide to slash taxes and open up to foreign trade and investment and lease their islands, that’s their prerogative.

Some tribal areas will naturally refuse to join sultanates they were previously apart of prior to colonisation such as Habar Gidir and the Majeerteen sultanate. That is fine. Habar Gedir territory will be declared a tribal area and they can decide how they want to structure their area. They can share it amicably or fight a 100 year war. Point is, it won’t affect the rest of us.

The western style nation state was alien to 99% of all Africa. Are you forgetting that some parts of Africa were inhabited by literal hunter and gatherers prior to colonialism, far less advanced than the average geeljire? Somalis are also not unique in their tribalism as many Africans and Asians adhered to strict clan based systems too. Yet despite that they managed to make it work better than Somalia could. No, the problem wasn't that European model was foreign to Somalis or qabil being a thing. The problem was that the rebels who overthrew the government decided to chimp out for several years instead of establishing order in the country and respecting international law.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I am for a sort of monarchy but how do you solve the issue of the details?

You still have the problem of disputes over rulership amongst a clan and between them. Say for example you create the W sultanate, the X sub-clan says its their right to be sultan and Y sub clan of W fights them. You said pre-colonialism borders but at what point in pre-colonial times? Not all borders are well known or preserved.

This is even more of a problem in areas where borders aren't possible because areas are so mixed up. This will be most difficult to implement in places like Jubbaland where there are dozens of different communities in a small area.

You said we have to go back to our indigenous traditions but a big part of our traditions is politics by consensus and mass referendums. The old sultans were not absolute rulers but first amongst equals. They were not kings so a monarchy is not really traditional with the exception of empires like Adal. It was quite democratic in some ways a lot more than what we have now.

Most of the 'traditional' leaders we have now are fake and the 'traditional' laws are bastardised ones pushed by colonial powers for the purpose of 'indirect rule'.

The 'Aqils you see paraded around and the endless number of 'Suldans' you see of a small or relatively small section are all fake. If you want to reconstruct or create a hybrid system that combines the old with new suitable solutions, we have to actually understand how Somali politics worked in the past.

People over-emphasise the role of tol or kinship in Somali politics and ignored importance of social contract or Xeer. The old Somali politics was based on contract, consensus, constant hangling and negotiation. Does that sound like the current clown show we have?

The pre-independence and independence 'leaders' betrayed us- they made use of calling to tol for political purposes but destroyed Xeer as it was because it was 'backward'. The Somali academic Jama Mohamed said 'under the public system of rules of kinship all members of the clan, lineage or dia-paying group participated in the decisions of the group: the formulation and following of rules for the kinship group were social practices in which the whole group participated. The elite had no interest in such a democratic system. They wanted the kinship system but not the burden of the rules and ethics of kinship... What they wanted was kinship politics without any rules. The logical end of such politics was the total collapse of the state in 1990'

It also doesn't matter what the origin of a system is if you can rework it and make it useful to you- the early Muslims adopted a lot of political structures from the Persians when the Muslim world expanded. As much as you may want a 'pure' system, this is not going to work we need a state that can survive 21st century geopolitics and more centralised hostile neighbours.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40026707

 

[Sufyan]

Ogaden sultanate in Jubaland

If the Ogaden Sultanate decide to slash taxes and open up to foreign trade and investment and lease their islands,

Adeer masjidka ciyaarta ka daa

Eelaay Kingdom of KG, the Hiraab Imamate, the Xawaadle Ugasate, the Majeerteen sultanate, the Warsangeli Sultanate, the Dhulbahante Garadate, and the Iiddoor sultanate

So basically KG , banaadir , hiraan state , puntland , makhiir state , ssc and somaliland but renamed into predated labels . Should we also change Somalia into Macrobia ?

The world has changed and so has politics , there’s a reason the rest of the world left this behind . However if your willing to make me boqor, I have no problem with it

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

The borders of the clan-based monarchies will be those prior to colonisation. If a particular clan’s territory is currently occupied by another clan monarchy, they will have to negotiate an agreement or the offending clan monarchy will be sanctioned by the rest of the confederation. I admit this will be a thorny issue and the biggest obstacle to overcome. But once it is done, I believe we will finally have a stable country that we are all somewhat content with.

One argument against this will be how will the subclans accept one subclan ruling over the rest. I retort with they have accepted such an arrangement for centuries. Bah Dir ruled the Majeerteen sultanate for generations and the other subclans submitted. The reason for this is power was always shared. While the monarch reigned, his council of elders made up of the subclans were the ones that actually made the decisions.

There were multiple fights over this and even amongst Bah Dir it wasn't as simple as 'they accepted'.

 

[Gemstone]

Somalia's problems are all rooted in water scarcity. Solve the water shortage and 80% of Somalia's instability will be gone. Unless the weather patterns change and the monsoon rains start slamming the Somali coast, then tackling the water shortage without controlling the Bale Mountains and fostering cooperation throughout the peninsula is nigh impossible. And to achieve that level of control without strong State seems unlikely. And to achieve strong state without solving the water shortage is also unlikely.

Problems and obstacles have been identified long time ago, the solutions keep eluding us.

 

[Aiman12]

only if the monarch is from my qabil

 

[El Nino]

Some tribal areas will naturally refuse to join sultanates they were previously apart of prior to colonisation such as Habar Gidir and the Majeerteen sultanate. That is fine. Habar Gedir territory will be declared a tribal area and they can decide how they want to structure their area. They can share it amicably or fight a 100 year war. Point is, it won’t affect the rest of us.

Couldn’t resist the FKD jabs even during ramadan. Sons of Madarkicis were never under the Mjs, waan dagaalney and now we have demarcated borders.

Of course HG should be crowned somaliweyns kings and it should rotate amongs it 4 sons.

Beesha (I) will only accept Ajuraan as kings, we have a good history together, we are brothers after all. Im sure suldaan Olol Diinles greatgrandson is up for the task.

 

[Abaq]

The western style nation state was alien to 99% of all Africa. Are you forgetting that some parts of Africa were inhabited by literal hunter and gatherers prior to colonialism, far less advanced than the average geeljire? Somalis are also not unique in their tribalism as many Africans and Asians adhered to strict clan based systems too. Yet despite that they managed to make it work better than Somalia could. No, the problem wasn't that European model was foreign to Somalis or qabil being a thing. The problem was that the rebels who overthrew the government decided to chimp out for several years instead of establishing order in the country and respecting international law.

Most African countries are either failed states or potential failed states. Just look at Kenya. Don't let the veneer of stability fool you. They all suffer from the same structural issue

 

[World]

A tribe being completely controlled and ruled by a monarch is alien to Somali culture.

They did not have that much power and were symbolic figureheads. Only Majerteen were different, their Sultans actually ruled them. Every nomad in their territory paid tribute to the Sultan annually, along with other subjects.

For other Somalis, that was not the case. Adult males voted for traditional elders, and the traditional elders for the various lineages of the clan held meetings and would debate, discuss, negotiate and come to decisions for the clan. These elders could easily be replaced if they did not perform to the standard of the adult males who voted for them. If the adult males are subjects of the elders, then the elders are just as much subjects to the adult males also.

The problem is that after 1960, politicians used qabiil to get the votes of their clan, but they were not accountable to the people. They could be as corrupt as they want and there would be no consequences. They represented their clan, but didn't work for them.

 

[Abaq]

I am for a sort of monarchy but how do you solve the issue of the details?

You still have the problem of disputes over rulership amongst a clan and between them. Say for example you create the W sultanate, the X sub-clan says its their right to be sultan and Y sub clan of W fights them. You said pre-colonialism borders but at what point in pre-colonial times? Not all borders are well known or preserved.

This is even more of a problem in areas where borders aren't possible because areas are so mixed up. This will be most difficult to implement in places like Jubbaland where there are dozens of different communities in a small area.

You said we have to go back to our indigenous traditions but a big part of our traditions is politics by consensus and mass referendums. The old sultans were not absolute rulers but first amongst equals. They were not kings so a monarchy is not really traditional with the exception of empires like Adal. It was quite democratic in some ways a lot more than what we have now.

Most of the 'traditional' leaders we have now are fake and the 'traditional' laws are bastardised ones pushed by colonial powers for the purpose of 'indirect rule'.

The 'Aqils you see paraded around and the endless number of 'Suldans' you see of a small or relatively small section are all fake. If you want to reconstruct or create a hybrid system that combines the old with new suitable solutions, we have to actually understand how Somali politics worked in the past.

People over-emphasise the role of tol or kinship in Somali politics and ignored importance of social contract or Xeer. The old Somali politics was based on contract, consensus, constant hangling and negotiation. Does that sound like the current clown show we have?

The pre-independence and independence 'leaders' betrayed us- they made use of calling to tol for political purposes but destroyed Xeer as it was because it was 'backward'. The Somali academic Jama Mohamed said 'under the public system of rules of kinship all members of the clan, lineage or dia-paying group participated in the decisions of the group: the formulation and following of rules for the kinship group were social practices in which the whole group participated. The elite had no interest in such a democratic system. They wanted the kinship system but not the burden of the rules and ethics of kinship... What they wanted was kinship politics without any rules. The logical end of such politics was the total collapse of the state in 1990'

It also doesn't matter what the origin of a system is if you can rework it and make it useful to you- the early Muslims adopted a lot of political structures from the Persians when the Muslim world expanded. As much as you may want a 'pure' system, this is not going to work we need a state that can survive 21st century geopolitics and more centralised hostile neighbours.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40026707

1. Every sultanate had a ruling family. The descendants are still around. It is not up to debate. They are still respected even if they are just figureheads today.

2. Jubaland being diverse is a myth. There are clear land territory demarcations. Everyone knows where Mx live, Ogaden live, Rx live etc. Don't let online propaganda fool you.

3. I clearly mentioned that the monarchs ruled but it was the council of elders underneath them who reigned. Those elders are likewise answerable to the subclans they represent.

4. Our traditional rulers are almost certainly not fake. It is highly ignorant of you to claim as such.

5. I didn't speak on the legal system which should be adopted, only the state structure. I personally believe we should use a codified form of Shafi'i fiqh, not xeer.

6. I call for adopting the traditional monarchies as the basis for our state structure and then using it as a template for creating a modern state.

 

[Abaq]

Couldn’t resist the FKD jabs even during ramadan. Sons of Madarkicis were never under the Mjs, waan dagaalney and now we have demarcated borders.

Of course HG should be crowned somaliweyns kings and it should rotate amongs it 4 sons.

Beesha (I) will only accept Ajuraan as kings, we have a good history together, we are brothers after all. Im sure suldaan Olol Diinles greatgrandson is up for the task.

I said what I said sxb. Which Habar do you think will come out on top of the 100 year war?

 

[chronic]

We can either Balkanize or rebirth

 

[Abaq]

A tribe being completely controlled and ruled by a monarch is alien to Somali culture.

They did not have that much power and were symbolic figureheads. Only Majerteen were different, their Sultans actually ruled them. Every nomad in their territory paid tribute to the Sultan annually, along with other subjects.

For other Somalis, that was not the case. Adult males voted for traditional elders, and the traditional elders for the various lineages of the clan held meetings and would debate, discuss, negotiate and come to decisions for the clan. These elders could easily be replaced if they did not perform to the standard of the adult males who voted for them. If the adult males are subjects of the elders, then the elders are just as much subjects to the adult males also.

The problem is that after 1960, politicians used qabiil to get the votes of their clan, but they were not accountable to the people. They could be as corrupt as they want and there would be no consequences. They represented their clan, but didn't work for them.

I admit there were hybrid systems, some more centralised and others more decentralised. What you are describing is probably the Dhulbahante experience. However, the Ogaden sultanate of Jubaland was different. The Sultan ruled with a council of elders made up of the hereditary heads of the subclans who were in turn answerable to their people. But that's the beauty of this confederal monarchy. If Dhulbahante want a loose system in their monarchy, they can do so.