GENETICS Temporal closure to a Nubian genetic study.

[Cognitive]

There was an AE-Hyksos paper coming up.

Is it coming out at the year’s end? I heard as well a paper dedicated to AEs from the first Millennium BC (with various sites including: Thebes, Deir el Bahari, Hawara, Dakhlah Oasis, Abydos, Meidum, and Abusir..etc).
There may even be another study focusing on a certain collection of “naturally mummified” remains in the British Museum. Don’t take my word for it, as that is so far only an account of a credible source.

 

[Cognitive]

Egypt is currently engaging in a cultural crusade against black people so not surprising.

Against all dark skinned peoples of African descent? I certainly know there has been continuous fights on Twitter. Have they gone as far as to assault tourists?

But let's see how happy he will be if he meets a Black actress portraying whatever woman in Ancient Egyptian history. Colorism is a big factor in this, irrespective of how those Hollywood people put a mixed Black woman, depicting the least Egyptian queen (Macedonian with Iranian ancestry). It seems they wanted to bank on the controversy. They could have taken a Greek/Cypriot/Turkish-looking woman for that role. That would be in the ballpark for the phenotype.

I believe Zahi Hawass’ actions were simply put, “typcial” for men of his more “regressed” time. Colorism and stuff. Btw, judging from your comments I reckon that woman he felt honored after meeting was Elizabeth Taylor?
Regardless, Howllyood, Netflix, Amazon, film studios & streaming services and what have you, know that controversy sells these days because “sex” is no longer a viable option (look at the change of attires for video game characters) in the politically “corrected” cinema.
However I’d have to say that the vast majority of African American actors or just regular people of either West, Central, and South African (including Afrikanes, lmao) ancestries would indeed be ill-suited for a role dedicated to Nile Valley aristocrats. Be it Egyptian or Nubian. I don’t necessarily see an inherent problem for Egyptians hating on those casting options. Barring historical accuracy and genetics, the phenotypes and accent just scream off to me.
Of course, I have witnessed firsthand a lesser outburst towards the “white appropriation” of Egyptian culture, and that is problematic in a way as pseudo should be called out for both ends in equal effort. That being said, however, I sometimes entertain the idea that this is due to the fewer occurrences of “white appropriation” compared to the popular movement by “Afrocentric” (I normally refrains from using the word in this context as it wasn’t the original definition) accounts on social platforms (e.g., TheKingsMonologue, Mr Imhotep…)

LoL they are reaching and they do it to claim their civilization

That doesn’t read like claiming to me. If anything it reads more like belittling/ denouncing/ downplaying, which is even worse. To claim something would imply a deep rooted fascination, and I hardly believe an uneducated person making that absurd claim would understand Nubian archaeology, which in all likelihood probably wasn’t even taught sufficiently.

 

[The alchemist]

Against all dark skinned peoples of African descent? I certainly know there has been continuous fights on Twitter. Have they gone as far as to assault tourists?



I believe Zahi Hawass’ actions were simply put, “typcial” for men of his more “regressed” time. Colorism and stuff. Btw, judging from your comments I reckon that woman he felt honored after meeting was Elizabeth Taylor?
Regardless, Howllyood, Netflix, Amazon, film studios & streaming services and what have you, know that controversy sells these days because “sex” is no longer a viable option (look at the change of attires for video game characters) in the politically “corrected” cinema.
However I’d have to say that the vast majority of African American actors or just regular people of either West, Central, and South African (including Afrikanes, lmao) ancestries would indeed be ill-suited for a role dedicated to Nile Valley aristocrats. Be it Egyptian or Nubian. I don’t necessarily see an inherent problem for Egyptians hating on those casting options. Barring historical accuracy and genetics, the phenotypes and accent just scream off to me.
Of course, I have witnessed firsthand a lesser outburst towards the “white appropriation” of Egyptian culture, and that is problematic in a way as pseudo should be called out for both ends in equal effort. That being said, however, I sometimes entertain the idea that this is due to the fewer occurrences of “white appropriation” compared to the popular movement by “Afrocentric” (I normally refrains from using the word in this context as it wasn’t the original definition) accounts on social platforms (e.g., TheKingsMonologue, Mr Imhotep…)

That doesn’t read like claiming to me. If anything it reads more like belittling/ denouncing/ downplaying, which is even worse. To claim something would imply a deep rooted fascination, and I hardly believe an uneducated person making that absurd claim would understand Nubian archaeology, which in all likelihood probably wasn’t even taught sufficiently.

I think so. I think it was that woman - one of those women.

The Egyptian outrage was inconsistent - extremely non-symmetrical. All foreign-based media about Ancient Egypt, which I am to remind you, is overwhelmingly just White people cosplaying as Egyptians in their selective curated self-referential way through the decades going back to 100 years or more (completely monopolizing the perception), was never met with any serious chain of backlash controversy at all. There were a fraction of dim voices that maybe voiced subdued opinions that Egyptians should portray their history, but were not meaningful in the bigger picture in the reactionary behavior.

Granted, since Sisi came to power, Egypt became more nationalistically inclined, increasingly using Ancient Egyptian old archeo-cultural imagery for symbolism to distinguish itself (especially in the last years) to establish a continuity of legitimacy on the foundational political space, a sense of national identity synergetic with cultural pride synonymously reinforcing policies for economic opportunity setting. That certainly played a part in the online trends.

You will never hear an Egyptian holding a gripe about erroneous Egyptology that hasn't corrected itself meaningfully from its Eurocentric pillars since its inception because that portrayal is ideologically self-serving. Contrastingly, the focus on the issues of "Afrocentrism" is disproportionately pronounced (the former holds power while the latter is simply a joke comparatively of effects, and it is interesting how in Egyptian spaces, there is the insistent conflation between Afrocentrism and Hotepism). This impulse was never solely based on the love of credibility and validity but a lot of underlying bias because the deviations are not equally unappreciated. We can be honest about that, at least.

I was stating the realities on the ground, as I have observed them since I am very familiar with Egyptian people. I agree that portrayals should be accurate and all that. But the companies that pick these random actors are only doing it for money, nothing more.

 

[Cognitive]

@The alchemist
Well, I tend to agree with your assessment here.
It is true that often times the outburst is not only linked to inaccuracy but inevitably associated with political aspects too. To be frank, the modern racial “hierarchy” might have something to do with this on a subconscious level.

With all that said, what do you think about the AE-related studies coming out? Is the Hyksos one aimed for a release in late 2023? So far the only concrete development I’ve heard is the First Millennium paper, and it’s given a potential release date of November 2023,
Overall, why do you think Nile Valley aDNA studies are always taking forever? Thermal degradation? Mummification process screwing the tissue?
After all, we currently lack WGs from classical Nubia and the only sampled Kerman-era genome was a low-quality one without a breakdown. Egypt is a bit better in terms of yielded gnomic results though it still pales in comparison to regions like Europe and Near East. I’ll have to admit though, there are more under-sampled territories in Africa…take the eastern Maghreb (especially Libya) for example, and don’t even mention the Horn.

 

[The alchemist]

@The alchemist
Well, I tend to agree with your assessment here.
It is true that often times the outburst is not only linked to inaccuracy but inevitably associated with political aspects too. To be frank, the modern racial “hierarchy” might have something to do with this on a subconscious level.

With all that said, what do you think about the AE-related studies coming out? Is the Hyksos one aimed for a release in late 2023? So far the only concrete development I’ve heard is the First Millennium paper, and it’s given a potential release date of November 2023,
Overall, why do you think Nile Valley aDNA studies are always taking forever? Thermal degradation? Mummification process screwing the tissue?
After all, we currently lack WGs from classical Nubia and the only sampled Kerman-era genome was a low-quality one without a breakdown. Egypt is a bit better in terms of yielded gnomic results though it still pales in comparison to regions like Europe and Near East. I’ll have to admit though, there are more under-sampled territories in Africa…take the eastern Maghreb (especially Libya) for example, and don’t even mention the Horn.

Have you checked this out?

Who were the Hyksos? Challenging traditional narratives using strontium isotope (87Sr/86Sr) analysis of human remains from ancient Egypt

A foreign dynasty, known as the Hyksos, ruled parts of Egypt between c. 1638–1530 BCE. Their origins are thought to be rooted in the Near East, which is supported by architectural features and grave accoutrements of Tell el-Dabca. In this former Hyksos capital in the Eastern Nile Delta, burial...

journals.plos.org

Egypt is a strange place when it comes to the field of archaeogenetics.

 

[Cognitive]

Aye, I believe I’ve seen that article before.
Though I reckon it’s not the same as this one below?

This might sound like whining, but it indeed remains a huge L that these teams seem to favor mtDNAs over WGS.
I contacted the woman responsible for the Nubian paper (Abagail Breidenstein) to ask whether there are WGS in future papers but she didn’t reply…besides no info on her bio indicating that there are.

 

[The alchemist]

Aye, I believe I’ve seen that article before.
Though I reckon it’s not the same as this one below? View attachment 286094
This might sound like whining, but it indeed remains a huge L that these teams seem to favor mtDNAs over WGS.
I contacted the woman responsible for the Nubian paper (Abagail Breidenstein) to ask whether there are WGS in future papers but she didn’t reply…besides no info on her bio indicating that there are.

It's not the same study. The one I posted looks at strontium isotope analysis of the samples ascertaining the tooth enamel profiles to match the Nile Valley bioavailable strontium baseline to see the local and non-local origins of the people and migrational sex differences. The tooth enamel layering will provide a distinct background signature range for people that were accustomed to other geographic-specific dietary spectra because in general, it is assumed that other regions will show different frequency parameters given the separate ecosystem conditions of flora and fauna. So they can figure out who grew up where and who did not and distinguish Near Easterners from people of the Nile Valley (Nubians would have the same range as the Delta folks).

Besides the study-focus, and that the research was carried out by different institutions, what I can say is that they likely used the same samples to provide DNA. Yes, I have seen people fail hard to provide a central focus by picking mtDNA. It's not the more pragmatic option for us. I wonder if it can be converted and if we can gauge the data, still.