Puntland statement on the process of Federalization in Somalia

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I'm quite sure the document states those six points are what should be addressed before PL can agree with FGS on ''Dhameystirka dhismaha hannaanka federaalka ah ee Dalka''.

I'm not sure why would I read PL recommendations when they quite clearly stated that untill these six points have been resolved PL won't agree with the FGS and keep on prioritising the affairs of reer PL.

Walaal based on the content I'm certain I addressed the right issue.
I wanted you to get the context around which their arguments, and recommendations are framed. Without those, and not knowing what their arguments are, it would be hard to form an opinion, no?

Moving along, let us work with with your approach, and take a look at each of the 6 points you have picked out. Let us begin with 1 - 3, and come back to the rest. What is your disagreement with those 1st 3 items?
 
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Liban89

Maqal herder | Burco boodhweyn.
Mashallah, this is great news for Ethiopia, Kenya and eritrea. As power dynamics have already shifted in the Horn of Africa in the past 40 years, now Somalia is in a dire situation where its location is the biggest detriment to itself. Why do I say that is, as countries such as Kenya and Ethiopia are salivating right now to have what Somalia has . When you have a neighboring country that is more powerful than the other, it's the norm throughout history that the powerful will conquer the weak. If Somalia gets conquered, there will not be no Somaliland or puntland The Galbeed/nfd will never get the taste of true independence. The greater somali region that was previously inhabited by ethnic somalis will be inhabited by other ethnic groups who speak a different language and practise a different way of life. Just like amisom, they will rape your women, massacre your men and rewrite history. This is how empires wouldconquer new lands if the Somali people don't get their shit together and solve their past trauma. If not, the future is bleak.
I don't think we deserve tha land we inhabit, let Ethiopia and Kenya make use of it.
 
One more think, do keep in mind the Fed. gov't is not yours.
Any rational person knows where this kind of rhetoric leads to. I'll just state that the FGS is as much mine as PL is yours.
I wanted you to get the context around which their arguments, and recommendations are framed. Without those, and not knowing what their arguments are, it would be hard to form an opinion, no?
By the way PL government has drawn up the document, their recommendations aren't only secondary to the six points they listed but absolutely irrelevant to the FGS.
Moving along, let us work with with your approach, and take a look at each of the 6 points you have picked out. Let us begin with 1 - 3, and come back to the rest. What is your disagreement with those 1st 3 items?
1: In 2004 when Federalism was agreed on it was done in a fucking hotel on a Kenyan slum. Garow one and two were agreed on when AL-Shabaab was in control of most of not only Sothern Somalia but major parts of Xamar as well. I don't see any reason for it to be a prerequisite for a common agreement now. I can even boldly state, that PL government demands this so it can keep the kumeelgaar pamphlet alive.

2: This is rabbit hole, all the Southern states know that SL-FGS talks are fruitless and they should reach a common agreement among themselves before the issue can seriously even be discussed with SL. FGS and Southern FMS don't hold PL-SL talks in a high regard or see it as a prerequisite on reaching any consensus on what kind of power sharing FGS-FMS should have.

3: All the FMS are in an agreement with the FGS on what they want it is PL who is not and it is obvious to non Puntlanders why PL government won't agree on a compromise. This is why I'm saying you should just declare independence. No one likes fence sitters get out or get along with the program.
 
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Any rational person knows where this kind of rhetoric leads to. I'll just state that the FGS is as much mine as PL is yours.
For the record, just so you know it, it means the Fed. gov't is an entity for all. Let us not make assumptions. Does that help?

1: In 2004 when Federalism was agreed on it was done in a fucking hotel on a Kenyan slum. Garow one and two were agreed on when AL-Shabaab was in control of most of not only Sothern Somalia but major parts of Xamar as well. I don't see any reason for it to be a prerequisite for a common agreement now. I can even boldly state, that PL government demands this so it can keep the kumeelgaar pamphlet alive.

2: This is rabbit hole, all the Southern states know that SL-FGS talks are fruitless and they should reach a common agreement among themselves before the issue can seriously even be discussed with SL. FGS and Southern FMS don't hold PL-SL talks in a high regard or see it as a prerequisite on reaching any consensus on what kind of power sharing FGS-FMS should have.

3: All the FMS are in an agreement with the FGS on what they want it is PL who is not and it is obvious to non Puntlanders why PL government won't agree on a compromise. This is why I'm saying you should just declare independence. No one likes fence sitters get out or get along the program.

I’ll focus on your main debating points.
  • You do not agree with item (1), and are arguing in favour of Al Shabaab. I get it.
  • In item (2), You do not think consensus is needed to initiate talks with SL.
  • You do not think consensus is needed for a nation state building programme, item (3).
Did I capture the essence of your argument?
 
For the record, just so you know it, it means the Fed. gov't is an entity for all. Let us not make assumptions. Does that help?



I’ll focus on your main debating points.
  • You do not agree with item (1), and are arguing in favour of Al Shabaab. I get it.
  • In item (2), You do not think consensus is needed to initiate talks with SL.
  • You do not think a consensus is needed for a nation state building programme, item (3).
Did I capture the essence of your argument?
Typical move when one can't formulate anything concrete, well thank god you are not annoying enough for me to keep this charade on.

I formulated coherent arguments on why PL is doing this and why FGS has only one option if they want this country to be federation with a concrete Federal authority.

You can stop wasting both of our time now, I have no intention to play aunt sally with you, I sincerely hope you can find someone else.
 

Capo Dhoore

βš”οΈ
Caqli lix saac hutu dameer. The ones that live in xamar believe this lie too. Why would puntland need canshuur from a bajaj driving hutu ? This is who we have to share a country with :pacspit:

 
Typical move when one can't formulate anything concrete, well thank god you are not annoying enough for me to keep this charade on.

I formulated coherent arguments on why PL is doing this and why FGS has only one option if they want this country to be federation with a concrete Federal authority.

You can stop wasting both of our time now, I have no intention to play aunt sally with you, I sincerely hope you can find someone else.
Did I, or did I not capture your argument?
  • You do not agree with item (1), and are arguing in favour of Al Shabaab. I get it.
  • In item (2), You do not think consensus is needed to initiate talks with SL.
  • You do not think consensus is needed for a nation state building programme, item (3).
 

TekNiKo

β€œI am an empathic and emotionally-aware person.
VIP
Caqli lix saac hutu dameer. The ones that live in xamar believe this lie too. Why would puntland need canshuur from a bajaj driving hutu ? This is who we have to share a country with :pacspit:

Forget about PL even Xamar soldiers and MPs are paid with funds from IC. Nothing passes the HAG isbaaro… shameless indeed
 

Hilmaam

Let him cook
VIP
There is no option to declare independence. Somaliand has been in limbo for 30 yrs. No new country will form and most citizens know it. Deni playing hardball with fgs and will get concessions for puntland to retain independence within somalia. There is no trust after civil war lets start slow. Each state urbanizes and gets rid of nomad lifestyle which causes most of our issues. Then form strong fgs in future.
 
Do you mean this document and the six points listed here?
View attachment 248502
1: Freeing Somalia from Al-Shabab has not been a prerequisite for any agreements reached so far and it won't start being one. PL is obviously obstructing the process so it can keep enjoying all the special rights it has.
2: Somaliland borders have been decided and whether they join Somalia is on the hands of Somaliland and we know their position. PL borders should be based on the 18 gobols as is the case for the other states, the kumeelgaar pamphlet aka constitution should be equal to all. If it gives any special treatment to any state it should be amended so it doesn't give anyone more rights.
3 and 5 are already agreed upon by all the Southern states, it is PL once again being a rogue entity.
4: Should be put into the hands of reer Muqdisho, it is a question on what reer Banaadir want from the FGS and Banaadir admin in return of their tax money. It has nothing to do with PL
6: PL dastuur should be modified so it isn't at odds with the federal constitution, not the other way around. Absolutely in no way should the dastuur of PL hold more sway than the federal one.

As far as I see it. PL will not agree on any compromise because from their point of view, the moment they agree on anything they will become just another state within the FGS with no more autonomy than other states. If FGS agrees to give PL more rights than the other state we might as well dissolve the federation and move to a confederation or balkanize the country.

What we are witnessing is the beginning of a new period in Somalia. This is just the birth of a new reality between FGS and PL. HSM's government has in a very short period, moved Somalia from a weak divided kumeelgaar period to an actual state capable of not only fighting the terrorists but also bringing all of South into a common agreement. This new reality gives FGS a whole new role on the negotiation table and it is not the weak underdog one it had a decade ago.
The federal constitution gives PL full autonomy and they can't relinquish that, even after negotiations I don't think PL will give up more powers than already mentioned in the constitution like defense, foreign affairs, money, etc.
PL is the only state that has that autonomy and no other state has that right, so it doesn't matter if they agree to something else since they're already influenced by FGS, but since the provisional federal constitution is influenced by PL and gives them special status you think it's good idea to ignore it and give FGS most of the powers.
My opinion is, Deni should've started the negotiations and name a committee that can negotiate with Mogadishu, because I don't think you even need to settle Somaliland and the capital issues to agree on solving other issues that can lead to separation of powers until we complete the constitution.
 

TekNiKo

β€œI am an empathic and emotionally-aware person.
VIP
Ogaden clan mocking and making fun of Deni, they say Majeerteens are jealous of PM Hamza what happened to Kablalax brotherhood, they have truly allied with HAG

 

repo

Bantu Liberation Movement
VIP
Ogaden clan mocking and making fun of Deni, they say Majeerteens are jealous of PM Hamza what happened to Kablalax brotherhood, they have truly allied with HAG

Doqonki Ogaden has the intellectual capacity of a shallow rain puddle. Faroole cut ties in 2011 when Gaas was PM. Similarly Gaas cut ties in 2015 when Omar Abdirashid was PM. Both are from Puntland so this argument holds no water.
 

Yonis

Puntland Youth Organiser
FKD Visionary
VIP
Okay I’m hurt from a anonymous person πŸ˜ƒ says the person moaning about 1991 every two business days :heh:

I don’t have anything personal against daroods for me to get hurt. it’s just the constant faan on every other regular thread where it’s unnessary shuuban.
Bro stop shitting up this thread with your dumb hutu takes. Either engage the topic at hand, or dip. We're here for dicussion on federalism not your ur womanly emotional outbursts
 

Yonis

Puntland Youth Organiser
FKD Visionary
VIP
This topic is what always convinces me that Somalis simply do not have the requisite intelligence to discuss complex constitutional questions.

Why is Puntland doing this?
You explain why it would be bad for Puntland to handover its judicial system to the FGS given its incompetence and corruption.
Same person 2 seconds later: why is Puntland doing this?

:williamswtf:
I agree with you, but whats sad is that all these idiotic takes are cosigned by others with idiotic takes, they circle-jerk each other with stupidity. They live in their own reality
 
Typical move when one can't formulate anything concrete, well thank god you are not annoying enough for me to keep this charade on.
I’ll throw you a life line, as I am in a generous mood, in the hope that you'll learn a thing or two from it next time when engaging others. See, you probably are used to a debating style void of facts, where one digresses, diverges, and converges as if serving mince pie for dinner on cement board - more of a smorgasbord type of scattered thinking. The arguments PL is making are all valid, and should have been positioned against the anti-federalist tide a long time ago, but Deni is anything, but an honest broker, playing horse trading in midstream, benefiting neither the locals, nor the national interest. That should be your rebuttal. All else is just β€˜gacma daalis’. Now, that you are being rescued (how long are we to continue doing that, and your are not the slimmest among your equals), just try sticking to the facts. Atta lad.

If you still think you could rise to the challenge, try the remaining 3 items, and this time, take a deep breath, and repeat after me: 'I can do this'.
 
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