Origins of the swahili as pastoralists

[Midas]

I couldn't find the thread but somebody posted some guys twitter called hornaristocract. I found one of the gus sources this book very interesting . It was apparently written by this swahili scholar guy who'd apparently studied swahili for a lifetime and this was published after his death. It caught my eye becuase I thought shungywaya was some random madeup myth. But the book is very interesting he goes and describes how it's a reference to early cushitci pastoralists who migrated to the coast and nearby inland area in 800 and 900s who first setup up these settlements and made a confederation with Hunter gathers and bantu ironsmiths to trafe. These slowly over the centuries changed as they became urbanized and were slowly assimilated there was a couple reasons climate and less pastoralists moving in so over time this shhungswya orgin wss forgotten and the newer shirazi arrivals had their orgin in arabs and persians . But there was a recognition of these groups ( katwa and wasejgo) in the 15 and 16th centuries of having a simialr cushitic pastoralist orgin as the swahili Patrician clans. I don't know how much is accurate since this is from 1993 (but there was some recent dna excavated from swahili royal graves that dated back to the 16th centurh and one of the individuals was about 50% cushitic) . Curiously while he uses somalis as an example of what these pastoralists traditions and customs would look like. He doenst even speculate that they might be somali which definitely seems very possible.
@Shimbiris

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Swahili origins being pastoralists is new to me, never thought about it. One thing I will say is that Somali clans were in the Swahili Coast founding cities like Mombasa in the area around the time period you’re talking about in 900 AD.

 

[Midas]

Yeah what clinched it for me was the fact that they found large amounts of camel bones . Funnily enough while I felt like he downplayed the obvious somali connection. Even he pointed out that for some reason researchers didn't want to make the obvious cushtic pastoralist connection. One thing I didn't like though is how he charcterized our islam. As " somalis have an anti-urban islam"

 

[Riftvalley]

I have just read a pdf discussing Shunguwaya by the same author. A few thoughts follow-


The interesting thing about his research is the prominence of numerous ethnic groups referring to themselves as coming from misri or having relations without “Misri” type people. The author locates this in a socio economic or ethno cultural phenomena term relating to the ancient Egyptian cloth originating from the Zaylac triangle and reaching the interior of Kenya/near to the costal regions as well. I wonder if this May have been a regionalname for old Somal traders descending from Harar plains and south Somalia to trade with various different peoples. We wuz Egyptians

The idea of certain groups trying to control the trade to communities surrounding the two great rivers is also interesting. It might be explain or be one of the reasons ancient Somali chose to settle near the river Jubba etc (apart from other obvious ecological reasons).

Another interesting point about the oral traditions collected here is the authors discussion on the ruler of Shunguwaya having access to virgin brides which are very similar to to the myths attributed to the Ajuuran.

All of these links makes one wonder-if the pastoralist or formerly pastoralist- being as mentioned as a key component of Shunguwaya could be the Madanle or a closely related group.

 

[Idilinaa]

I read that book before. He actually posits in the book that Shungwayah traditions is most likely just Somali tribes that came to be known as ''Katwa'' migrating down from Juba and carrying the memories of where they came from.

The only community with a sizeable camel population are Somalis. oromo's never originally owned camels even or neither did other southern cushitic speakers. So it's explains itself what the early Northern Swahili coastal populations might have looked like if we go by archeology. A mix of Somali and Bantu speakers

Somalis are also interwoven in a lot of the Northern Swahili origin stories alongside Bantu groups like Segeju, Mijikenda etc and they shared power with the Swahili bantu ruling class in places like Lamu and Siyu until the 18th century.

 

[Midas]

I read that book before. He actually posits in the book that Shungwayah traditions is most likely just Somali tribes that came to be known as ''Katwa'' migrating down from Juba and carrying the memories of where they came from.

The only community with a sizeable camel population are Somalis. oromo's never originally owned camels even or neither did other southern cushitic speakers. So it's explains itself what the early Northern Swahili coastal populations might have looked like if we go by archeology. A mix of Somali and Bantu speakers

Somalis are also interwoven in a lot of the Northern Swahili origin stories alongside Bantu groups like Segeju, Mijikenda etc and they shared power with the Swahili bantu ruling class in places like Lamu and Siyu until the 18th centur

Yeah it seems like he is being cautious in claiming that they were just somali pastoralists who migrated. Funnily enough it seems like his book nevertheless caught on. Several months ago I bout the swahili world by routldege press one of the major academix publishers it was a large book with contributis from over a dozen experts. Yet there was not even a hint of anything this guy talked about in his book. It's as if nobody purused this line of thought for the past 30 years.

 

[Idilinaa]

Yeah it seems like he is being cautious in claiming that they were just somali pastoralists who migrated. Funnily enough it seems like his book nevertheless caught on. Several months ago I bout the swahili world by routldege press one of the major academix publishers it was a large book with contributis from over a dozen experts. Yet there was not even a hint of anything this guy talked about in his book. It's as if nobody purused this line of thought for the past 30 years.

I don't think he is being cautious. He clearly says it in the screen i just posted that Somali migrated in 2 waves one before 1100 and another several centuries later and he even ponders if they could have been one of the first settlers in some of the swahili settlements.

There are other groups living in the southern-eastern africa. Somalis are not the only ones in the area keep that in mind. Somalis are just 1 among others.

 

[Midas]

I don't think he is being cautious. He clearly says it in the screen i just posted that Somali migrated in 2 waves one before 1100 and another several centuries later and he even ponders if they could have been one of the first settlers in some of the swahili settlements.

There are other groups living in the southern-eastern africa. Somalis are not the only ones in the area keep that in mind. Somalis are just 1 among others.

Yeah that makes sense it was a confederation. Are you aware of anybody who's done further worker after him? It seems like after this massive work of his there hasn't been anybody who tried to explore this connection

 

[Idilinaa]

Yeah that makes sense it was a confederation. Are you aware of anybody who's done further worker after him? It seems like after this massive work of his there hasn't been anybody who tried to explore this connection

Yeah there are a few other books on swahili origins. Another one is ''Horn and Crescent: Cultural Change and Traditional Islam on the East African Coast, 800-1900''

Researchers usually believe they were mixed settlements of pastoralists and cultivators.

 

[Midas]

Yeah there are a few other books on swahili origins. Another one is ''Horn and Crescent: Cultural Change and Traditional Islam on the East African Coast, 800-1900''

Researchers usually believe they were mixed settlements of pastoralists and cultivators.

I'll definitely take a look at this one. Is there any written on this in the 21st century.

 

[Idilinaa]

I'll definitely take a look at this one. Is there any written on this in the 21st century.

There is also ''The Swahili: The Social Landscape of a Mercantile Society''
that i am aware of. Let me know if you find any updated books on the matter.